Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Everything is going perfect for the double. Even the weather is helping Tadej this year.

 

[Poursuivant]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1789322453484782001

View: https://twitter.com/CafeRoubaix/status/1789322453484782001

 

[Poursuivant]

I thought Sean Kelly was OTT today talking about Pog being greedy. He was on two wins. I look forward to hearing him criticise Jonathan Milan when he has his team chasing with 2 or 3 wins already in the bag.

 

[Extinction]

[content deleted]

To be fair, he has won two Tours. At any rate, he is 1-2 kg lighter, so that's 2-4 secs faster each km uphill. I'm aware Vingegaard has generated superior power the last two Tours, but I'm curious to see where this Pogi stands come July.

 

[Red Rick]

I thought Sean Kelly was OTT today talking about Pog being greedy. He was on two wins. I look forward to hearing him criticise Jonathan Milan when he has his team chasing with 2 or 3 wins already in the bag.

They're not comparable at all. Especially not in how it affects the race.

 

[YavorD]

Incredible that Alaphilippe of all people have been closest to that since

Netserk's response is wrong. In the Giro Nibali does it in 2013 (okay the stage between the (M)TT and Tre Cime was cancelled but it's still back-to-back).
Basso also won a TT and a MTF in 2005.

 

[Netserk]

Netserk's response is wrong.

I wrote:

For the Tour:

 

[YavorD]

I wrote

I wrote:

I know, but why would the tour mate when Pogacar is riding the Giro and both Basso and Nibali (if you want to count him) are more recent than Armstrong?

 

[bNator]

Normally the objetive Double is a goal, when a rider won in the previous year the Tour de France and then he wants a new and more difficult challenge in the next year.

It doesn't make sense when you can't even win just the Tour.

But in terms of "propaganda" is good, especially for the sponsors.

Well I guess it will just not make any sense when Pog wins both the Giro and the Tour this year then 😁

 

[jmdirt]

I thought Sean Kelly was OTT today talking about Pog being greedy. He was on two wins. I look forward to hearing him criticise Jonathan Milan when he has his team chasing with 2 or 3 wins already in the bag.

I always find it strange when retired racers criticize current pros for doing exactly what they would have done in their career.

OK, I don't really mean strange, I mean lame.

 

[skippo12]

"Competitive" zone two training continues. Cruise control from start to finish. As far as double attempts go this is the most promising start I have seen in a long time. He doesn't need to dig deep to win stages and just has to follow 2-3 guys for the rest of the race.

 

[Nick2413]

He’s at his normal 3 wins per GT already and not even to the first rest day.

Days like today showed he can easily win with minimal energy expenditure, so how many will he take overall?

Obviously depends on his team’s ability to control the race but I don’t think 6 wins would be out of the question even if riding defensively. Will being that much of a cannibal be a bad look though?

 

[Extinction]

I always find it strange when retired racers criticize current pros for doing exactly what they would have done in their career.

OK, I don't really mean strange, I mean lame.

But that's not really the case. Kelly's generation had a more ballanced approach, in that if you grabbed all the spoils eventually you made enemies. And Kelly isn't the only one from that era who says so. Maybe that's no longer the case today.

 

[Pantani_lives]

He’s at his normal 3 wins per GT already and not even to the first rest day.

Days like today showed he can easily win with minimal energy expenditure, so how many will he take overall?

Obviously depends on his team’s ability to control the race but I don’t think 6 wins would be out of the question even if riding defensively. Will being that much of a cannibal be a bad look though?

I don't think he'll win many more stages. From now on the breakaways will have a much better chance to stay away. Today was such an easy chance to grab one more with only a brief effort.

 

[jmdirt]

But that's not really the case. Kelly's generation had a more ballanced approach, in that if you grabbed all the spoils eventually you made enemies. And Kelly isn't the only one from that era who says so. Maybe that's no longer the case today.

Actually, your post is not really the case, but its irrelevant so I'll leave it at that.

EDIT: Kelly's day is irrelevant that is.

 

[jmdirt]

It was smart of TP to sprint that way, both for the GdI, but also for prep for the TdF.

 

[Salvarani]

But that's not really the case. Kelly's generation had a more ballanced approach, in that if you grabbed all the spoils eventually you made enemies. And Kelly isn't the only one from that era who says so. Maybe that's no longer the case today.

Anyone who is on top will have "enemies" though. Everybody is not gonna like you or be your friend. It comes with the territory of being the guy everyone wants to beat.

Kelly won 159 races. I feel like it is a bit hypocritical from him to say that as well.

Today is also a bad example. UAE had worked all day and for Pog to not contest the sprint when the win for the stage was up for grabs would have been criminal. Would have made zero sense to "gift" a win here.

There is no reason to gift anything to a rival... unless they have helped you pull away from other riders and in return increasing/keeping your lead of a race or securing the win overall because of it. You strike a deal.

Gifting it to a teammate as a thank you for doing an awesome job works fine as well.

Other type of "gifts" to appease people that is gonna hate anyways... nah. Thats lame. They are more likely to turn on you than returning the favor.

 

[Cookster15]

"Competitive" zone two training continues. Cruise control from start to finish. As far as double attempts go this is the most promising start I have seen in a long time. He doesn't need to dig deep to win stages and just has to follow 2-3 guys for the rest of the race.

+1.

@Red Rick said he was worried about Pog detraining this Giro. I don't think he needs to worry about detraining doing three weeks of mostly zone 2. Pogacar looked like he went close to his limit in the TT but obviously saved himself in today's stage only opening the throttle in the sprint finish. His sponsors want wins so what is he supposed to do?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar will cruise in the next 4 stages to preserve some energy to win another TT (I still think Ganna is the favourite to win). Stage 15 is very difficult to control, hope to see a strong UAE there.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Interesting dilemma, keep the character and stay true to yourself through the rest of the race and by doing so likely to affect Tour performance or do something that doesn't come easy to you and risk depression.

Long two weeks ahead.

 

[Extinction]

Anyone who is on top will have "enemies" though. Everybody is not gonna like you or be your friend. It comes with the territory of being the guy everyone wants to beat.

Kelly won 159 races. I feel like it is a bit hypocritical from him to say that as well.

Today is also a bad example. UAE had worked all day and for Pog to not contest the sprint when the win for the stage was up for grabs would have been criminal. Would have made zero sense to "gift" a win here.

There is no reason to gift anything to a rival... unless they have helped you pull away from other riders and in return increasing/keeping your lead of a race or securing the win overall because of it. You strike a deal.

Gifting it to a teammate as a thank you for doing an awesome job works fine as well.

Other type of "gifts" to appease people that is gonna hate anyways... nah. Thats lame. They are more likely to turn on you than returning the favor.

Nobody is talking about gifting anything and Kelly's 159 wins comes in an era of 160 days of racing per year. Let's be real. The issue is leaving guys out of contract today.

 

[dazaau]

Interesting dilemma, keep the character and stay true to yourself through the rest of the race and by doing so likely to affect Tour performance or do something that doesn't come easy to you and risk depression.

Long two weeks ahead.

Developing depression while winning the giro, riding in pink each day and picking up mountain sprint stage wins would be a new low for human resilience

 

[Oldermanish]

Vingo ‘23 is the greatest ever human performance on a bicycle. Nothing pogi does will ever surpass that

Nothing? Ever? Thats some pretty confident forecasts considering Vingo '23 was fighting a clearly recovering Pogacar.
Now Jonas will get his chance to re establish his claim to greatness.

By the way; Lemond in '89 after fighting the Tour with limited team help put down a pretty amazing closing TT.

 

[Squire]

Today is also a bad example. UAE had worked all day and for Pog to not contest the sprint when the win for the stage was up for grabs would have been criminal. Would have made zero sense to "gift" a win here.

But it was the working part he had issue with. Once it was brought together of course Pog was gonna go for it, and nobody said he shouldn't as far as I can tell.

Kelly's point was that they could have saved energy and let the not very dangerous breakaway get a bigger gap. Which, as was pointed out, has become a bit of an oldschool approach, but I can see a case being made both ways. It did seem a bit unnecessary to drill it all through the day just after Pogacar had asserted his dominance in the time trial.

 

[Oldermanish]

But that's not really the case. Kelly's generation had a more ballanced approach, in that if you grabbed all the spoils eventually you made enemies. And Kelly isn't the only one from that era who says so. Maybe that's no longer the case today.

Kelly hasn't seen a racer with this variety of skills in awhile, either. Sean raced like a mercenary because he had to win to make money. Pogacar has a fatter contract and what he's winning in this GT is what he wants to win. There's still almost two weeks to go. It'll be interesting to see how UAE navigates the larger goal.

Of course there are some on the forum that would suggest that Pogacar isn't even the best current racer. Maybe Tadej read that and took offense? Yeah, sure.