Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Salvarani]

But it was the working part he had issue with. Once it was brought together of course Pog was gonna go for it, and nobody said he shouldn't as far as I can tell.

Kelly's point was that they could have saved energy and let the not very dangerous breakaway get a bigger gap. Which, as was pointed out, has become a bit of an oldschool approach, but I can see a case being made both ways. It did seem a bit unnecessary to drill it all through the day just after Pogacar had asserted his dominance in the time trial.

But there was guys in the break only 5 minutes behind on GC. Giving them 10 minutes would have been dumb imo.

I don’t buy that argument either.

This stage suited the guys on UAE very well also.

It is better to let a break go in stages coming up depending on who goes in them.

 

[yaf]

Pogs double attempt is looking the most feasible attempt I've seen in recent history. It seems an AI driven plan. There is a famous saying 'u cant hold ur top form for more than a month' his coaches seem to plan for it accordingly.
He is not even on his Catalonia form let alone last years tour form in this 1st week and still 3 mins ahead. His coaches know his rivals numbers and he only needs to be 90% to be this dominant against them. I guess he was chilling with his family after liege. But on Pre giro interview pog said he is targeting livingo and grappa stages to make the difference. We might see him in Catalonia form there. So dont expect him letting the break on those stages.

 

[Extinction]

Kelly hasn't seen a racer with this variety of skills in awhile, either. Sean raced like a mercenary because he had to win to make money. Pogacar has a fatter contract and what he's winning in this GT is what he wants to win. There's still almost two weeks to go. It'll be interesting to see how UAE navigates the larger goal.

Of course there are some on the forum that would suggest that Pogacar isn't even the best current racer. Maybe Tadej read that and took offense? Yeah, sure.

I was only relating what I heard spoken from the mouths of several pro cyclists from the 70s, 80s and 90s, so there is no point in arguing the matter. The point, I think, is that the sport isn't only one man's mission (or child's game), but driven by a myriad of interests involving sponsorship deals, riders' contracts, mafioso vested interests, etc., and here, one needs to be prudent, unless you got the system by the cogliones, which Pogi does not.

 

[Extinction]

Pogs double attempt is looking the most feasible attempt I've seen in recent history. It seems an AI driven plan. There is a famous saying 'u cant hold ur top form for more than a month' his coaches seem to plan for it accordingly.
He is not even on his Catalonia form let alone last years tour form in this 1st week and still 3 mins ahead. His coaches know his rivals numbers and he only needs to be 90% to be this dominant against them. I guess he was chilling with his family after liege. But on Pre giro interview pog said he is targeting livingo and grappa stages to make the difference. We might see him in Catalonia form there. So dont expect him letting the break on those stages.

He definitely is at least in his Catalonia form, come on. Gianetti said he is in top shape.

 

[yaf]

He definitely is at least in his Catalonia form, come on. Gianetti said he is in top shape.

No man, he did 6.77 w/kg for 17 mins on oropa while in Catalonia 6.66 w/kg(adj to sea level) for 32 mins on valter. His form is improving by the days though

 

[scribers]

I was only relating what I heard spoken from the mouths of several pro cyclists from the 70s, 80s and 90s, so there is no point in arguing the matter. The point, I think, is that the sport isn't only one man's mission (or child's game), but driven by a myriad of interests involving sponsorship deals, riders' contracts, mafioso vested interests, etc., and here, one needs to be prudent, unless you got the system by the cogliones, which Pogi does not.

The question is what are the pissed off going to do about it? They don’t really work with him within the peloton anyway. He takes what he needs through strength. Like yesterday with three 5 minute men in a large break, UAE did all of the control. Is this what not working with him looks like?

 

[yaf]

He definitely is at least in his Catalonia form, come on. Gianetti said he is in top shape.

Gianetti stated that the difficulty of the double is one of the main reasons that motivated both the Slovenian rider and the team: "if we don't try, we won't be able to see if it's possible or not," to which he added that "for Tadej it was interesting to take on this challenge, because he likes very difficult challenges. And the same goes for us."

Furthermore, he expressed his belief that in the Giro "he will grow every day; day by day, he will improve his condition, as usual." "If everything goes well, he will finish the Giro in good form." Additionally, he considers that the Giro will be good for him due to the limited competitions he will participate in before the race and because "then he will take a complete recovery period," he explained. This year is a good opportunity, a good Giro, perhaps with a little less mountain compared to last year."

Gianetti placed equal importance on the Tour and the Giro. "The goal is clear: we want to win both the Giro and the Tour. (...). To achieve that goal, we will have to win both. It's not that one stands out for us."

Finally, he stated that "we don't have pressure, we only have the opportunity to try the Giro-Tour double. And we are taking advantage of this opportunity."
Words from the boss

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't believe he will make differences in stage 15. This stage doesn't invite attacks before the last 2 km. On the other hand stage 17 is where he will drop a watts bomb and gain probably another minute. Stage 18 and stage 19 will be easy days for UAE so Pog can go all out for 4 km.

 

[Offline]

Apparently Pogacar suffering with allergies, you could also heard it in his interviews yesterday.
But for sure not something that gave him too many problems yesterday.

 

[Extinction]

No man, he did 6.77 w/kg for 17 mins on oropa while in Catalonia 6.66 w/kg(adj to sea level) for 32 mins on valter. His form is improving by the days though

But he was just on a training ride on Oropa, once he got the gap.

 

[Red Rick]

But he was just on a training ride on Oropa, once he got the gap.

The pattern of a positive pacing strategy in an attack uphill is hardly unique, nor is it indicative of not going full gas.

 

[Extinction]

The question is what are the pissed off going to do about it? They don’t really work with him within the peloton anyway. He takes what he needs through strength. Like yesterday with three 5 minute men in a large break, UAE did all of the control. Is this what not working with him looks like?

Sure, but the older generation guys are speaking from the unwritten gentleman's agreement that used to prevail in cycling, but evidently, as with all modern business relationships today, no longer does. For example, if it's a sprinters's stage the race leader stays out off their turf, since sprinters have limited GT opportunities to net a victory that may be vital to secure next year's contract. Stuff like this or keeping rival teams at least not trying to sabotage you against their own interests, just out of spite to make you lose. This, to answer your question, is how the pissed off can respond to untoward imperious dominance. Yet in today's cycling I don't know if such recourse would be taken, because the call for results is just too strong.

 

[Extinction]

The pattern of a positive pacing strategy in an attack uphill is hardly unique, nor is it indicative of not going full gas.

Pacing strategy, by definition, means you leave a little reserve in the tank, which so early in a GT is the obvious thing to do, otherwise it's called going full gas, which he clearly wasn't doing on Oropa.

 

[Mina.S]

What is everyone's thoughts on Majka being excluded from the early tour team? Feel like he is still Pogs best domestique other than Yates who hasn't shown his level since his concussion.

 

[Red Rick]

What is everyone's thoughts on Majka being excluded from the early tour team? Feel like he is still Pogs best domestique other than Yates who hasn't shown his level since his concussion.

Majka is Pogacars most loyal domestique in the mountains, but his level isn't the highest on the team by any stretch. He made the team because UAE didn't bring Almeida and/or Ayuso in previous years. With the trio of Almeida, Ayuso and Yates, there's no need to bring a tired Majka at all.

 

[Mina.S]

Majka is Pogacars most loyal domestique in the mountains, but his level isn't the highest on the team by any stretch. He made the team because UAE didn't bring Almeida and/or Ayuso in previous years. With the trio of Almeida, Ayuso and Yates, there's no need to bring a tired Majka at all.

I think Almeida and Yates will work for Pog but I doubt Ayuso will. Almeida is just happy to do the tour but Ayuso expects leadership and who knows what Yates wants/ his condition.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

This year, the Giro team is the Pog‘s loyal domestiques team while the Tour team is the exact opposite, the strongest riders/chaos/uci points team. Really interesting

 

[Peyroteo94]

Almeida will work for sure. Ayuso has a big ego so I think he will do anything to not work even if he isn't clearly one of the best climbers in the world.

 

[Offline]

This year, the Giro team is the Pog‘s loyal domestiques team while the Tour team is the exact opposite, the strongest riders/chaos/uci points team. Really interesting

I think all riders besides Ayuso is loyal domestiques at the Tour.

 

[Savant12]

This year, the Giro team is the Pog‘s loyal domestiques team while the Tour team is the exact opposite, the strongest riders/chaos/uci points team. Really interesting

Is Hirschi going? He does nothing for the "team" when he's not the team leader.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

This year, the Giro team is the Pog‘s loyal domestiques team while the Tour team is the exact opposite, the strongest riders/chaos/uci points team. Really interesting

The team he loves vs. the team he needs?

 

[Offline]

Is Hirschi going? He does nothing for the "team" when he's not the team leader.

Hirschi not riding grand tours again this year.
He is off to Tudor or Q36.5.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The team he loves vs. the team he needs?

I think Bjerg would be a nice addition but who goes out? For obvious reasons Ayuso would be the number one to get out of the startlist but this is impossible to happen.

 

[Salvarani]

Ayuso has done Vuelta two times in a row. I think it would be a lot to ask him to "only" do the Vuelta again for a third time. He will probably be happy with a stage-win and winning the Youth classification. Then he will do Giro-Vuelta next season. My guess.

Almeida has not done the Tour so far either. Been solid and finished in the the top 10 in GTs. He has already raced and worked well with Pog this season. His best chance is to help Pog and perhaps score another top 10 for himself, unless he purely ride as a dom. Then being leader or co-leader at the Vuelta with Del Toro. My guess.

A. Yates will hope to do exactly what he did last year. Has had problems so far this season.

If they find themselves in position similar to Vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss... then so be it I guess. I dont think so though. I would be surprised, but you never know.

They will have the ambition to ride to win the double with Pog, if something happens to Pog or any unforeseen things occur they will deal with it and adjust.

Adding Politt, Wellens, Sivakov, Soler to the above... it is a scary team on paper. It is a lot of experience in this team and they will be there to do their job. It is the current best riders on the team for the biggest race of the season.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ayuso has done Vuelta two times in a row. I think it would be a lot to ask him to "only" do the Vuelta again for a third time. He will probably be happy with a stage-win and winning the Youth classification. Then he will do Giro-Vuelta next season. My guess.

Almeida has not done the Tour so far either. Been solid and finished in the the top 10 in GTs. He has already raced and worked well with Pog this season. His best chance is to help Pog and perhaps score another top 10 for himself, unless he purely ride as a dom. Then being leader or co-leader at the Vuelta with Del Toro. My guess.

A. Yates will hope to do exactly what he did last year. Has had problems so far this season.

If they find themselves in position similar to Vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss... then so be it I guess. I dont think so though. I would be surprised, but you never know.

They will have the ambition to ride to win the double with Pog, if something happens to Pog or any unforeseen things occur they will deal with it and adjust.

Adding Politt, Wellens, Sivakov, Soler to the above... it is a scary team on paper. It is a lot of experience in this team and they will be there to do their job. It is the current best riders on the team for the biggest race of the season.

Ayuso should be doing Giro-Vuelta this year. This route is perfect for him and he could be on the podium behind Pogacar. He is not a world class climber and we could see that in Romandie.