Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[dazaau]

I love how after the fact everyone is a tactics genius and Pog was foolish to attack.

I think the percentage of people who believed Jonas would come back after being 35sec down was tiny. This stage suited Pog and Remco, why not try and it's not like Jonas got a free ride today - he worked at hard as Pogi.

The concerning fact is that he did come back, and now that final weekend is terrifying. Jonas is now the bookies favourite.

 

[Ripper]

Pyrenees are looming large! There could be fireworks during those stages. Vingo is likely to attack IMO - it's time to make up some time for him, he won't wait till the final weekend after today's confidence boost. Pogi? Not sure, maybe more defensive ride and trying to counter, if possible.

Yes, I was thinking that with the amount TP McGee mentions the Pyrenees are when the tour will actually start, and that is what he has been training for, etc., he surely must put on a demonstration. Otherwise it will be big trouble

 

[scribers]

Bruyneel believes pogi clearly bonk is still bullish on pogi’s possibilities

 

[Lorzenz08]

Historically, in the TdF you take the big gaps during the last kms of a hard stage with a HC finish.

UAE is completely stupid. You want to show how strong Pogi is ? Wait for the last 3-5kms of stage 14, 15 and 19. That's it.

I don't care about seeing Pogi ride away 30kms away, this is amateur stuff. I want to see him do some Pantani stuff. That's legendary.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Häagen-Bazs or whatever he's called. He's British.

If we're talking about ice cream, I recommend Tillamook from Oregon, USA.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Did anyone else notice that Tadej was using a smaller gear than Jonas in the sprint? Hincapie mentioned this as well. I wonder if it was pilot error or if he just didn't feel he could turn the big gear. It would have made a difference.

 

[scribers]

Way early forecast. But both lance and wiggo agree Vingo needs to be within 20-30 seconds of pogi in the final ITT to possibly win it

 

[SHAD0W93]

Hopefully we see a reverse of last year and Pogacar is the one that comes out swinging after the rest day.

 

[dazaau]

Way early forecast. But both lance and wiggo agree Vingo needs to be within 20-30 seconds of pogi in the final ITT to possibly win it

Stage 16 2023 says otherwise

 

[SHAD0W93]

Stage 16 2023 says otherwise

Only plus for Pogacar is it isn’t after a break so Vingegaard doesn’t get his recovery boost.

 

[YavorD]

Only plus for Pogacar is it isn’t after a break so Vingegaard doesn’t get his recovery boost.

I'm going to say that recovery will be much more relevant in stage 21 than after a rest day..

 

[SHAD0W93]

I'm going to say that recovery will be much more relevant in stage 21 than after a rest day..

Vingegaard has been at his best after the rest days.

 

[pelotonIQ]

The fun is over Poga. Time to race smart not hard.

 

[YavorD]

Vingegaard has been at his best after the rest days.

That's fair point, but still Vingegaard beat Pogacar in every 3rd week TT.

 

[SHAD0W93]

That's fair point, but still Vingegaard beat Pogacar in every 3rd week TT.

But the post I was replying to was with Vingegaard being able to overcome 1’14” when before that it was 8 and 25 seconds, one of which we don’t know if Pogacar went all out. Both should theoretically be tired by that point from the hard stages and could be feeling the Giro/crash that hampers their performance further.

 

[Ripper]

Historically, in the TdF you take the big gaps during the last kms of a hard stage with a HC finish.

UAE is completely stupid. You want to show how strong Pogi is ? Wait for the last 3-5kms of stage 14, 15 and 19. That's it.

I don't care about seeing Pogi ride away 30kms away, this is amateur stuff. I want to see him do some Pantani stuff. That's legendary.

I think you've made an accurate assessment. He is not so far superior he is able to smoke the top racers from this far out. Also, there has been sooooooo much talk from the UAE camp about training for the big mountains, that is what the focus has been on, that is where the fitness is, blah blah blah. OK, that could be the case and if so, it should be a show this weekend if he is not too tired. But then, quit burning stupid friggin matches on this stuff for peanuts and a few seconds. UAE are not terribly smrt on this one.

On a related angle, I know Johan B thinks it was a simple bonk, but bonks are more likely/harder to predict when you are beginning to run on fumes. Everyone is now going to be watching like a hawk for signs he is running out of steam or going to have a really bad day.

 

[iBanesto]

If Pogacar is going to kill his whole team to keep the breakaway in check by riding a crazy high pace so far out, he has to at least to win the stage.

He needs to decide to whether win the Tour or get more stage wins...

 

[Miha81]

If Pogacar is going to kill his whole team to keep the breakaway in check by riding a crazy high pace so far out, he has to at least to win the stage.

He needs to decide to whether win the Tour or get more stage wins...

Decisions, decision. He is used to have chance at both. It is same discussion as wheather he should concetrate only on grand tours with classics as afterthought or compete at best possible level whole season. He is what he is and I don't think he is willing to change.

 

[dacooley]

Pogačar is by far the most complete rider, but grabbing do many wins he has some difficulties with assessing where others arę watts-wise. No one bothered him drill the peloton to the group of 10-15 riders and sealing the stage with minimal effort, but heck, no, he decided to destroy the whole field with 1+' gap. I have a feeling riding like this is far more important than winning for him. Calculating the effort and racing securely is what Pogi clearly lightly dismisses.

 

[BullsFan22]

Jonas won the battle. Tadej will win the war. He needs to race smart now.

 

[Berniece]

Jonas won the battle. Tadej will win the war. He needs to race smart now.

Time to do what he really doesn’t want to do, wheelsuck

 

[skippo12]

I think his own comment about the descent was probably spot on. He overdid it and didn't leave enough in the tank for the last two climbs.
Vingegaard did the opposite. Roglic caught up with him and Vingegaard barely had to pedal. Lost 20s but had fresher legs on Pertut.
Maybe Pog expected the chasers to start looking at each other after he created the initial gap. That's what happens more often than not when he creates a gap like this. But that's not how it works against Vingegaard.

Will be interesting to see if UAE/Pog learned their lesson. Don't underestimate Vingegaard. This isn't the Giro where small mistakes didn't matter because Pog's base level was so much better compared to the rest.
He needs to be just as perfect as Visma/Vingegaard when it comes to effort management/pacing. And even though I hate to say it because it takes away from the viewing experience probably go with a more defensive approach.

 

[Miha81]

Time to do what he really doesn’t want to do, wheelsuck

You know he won't. He could stayed glued on Vinge's back yesterday after he blew the lead but he didn't.

 

[dennisdy]

In the last two Tours Visma had the better team, which they used to good effect. Now, UAE is much better. Will they be able to do what Visma did? Can they isolate Vingegaard and break him?

 

[dacooley]

Jonas won the battle. Tadej will win the war. He needs to race smart now.

Probably you are right. But could anyone remind the case of Pogacar racing smart? It's mostly about 2 scenarios: tearing the opposition apart and completely tearing himself as it happened on Granon and Courchevel. I fail to remember any middle way. He's completely not adapted to this type of racing and I suspect mastering it is way harder for him that it seems.
For sure Pogacar is Pogacar, and no one will get astonished if yesterday's stage will turn out his lowest point in the entire Tour. Nonetheless, not a good sign for him. I presume he's a bit of shocked. Getting caught and losing sprint is what really occurs to him rarely.