Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cookster15]

Tour 2024 was really similar to Tour '23, you know?
Pogacar was injured pre-tour but when he dropped Vingegaard on 3 stages people thought he may/will win the Tour.
Same with Vingegaard after stage 11.
Still, a healthy Vingegaard put a bit more on injured Pogacar than a healthy Pogacar on (more severely) injured Vingegaard.

Based on these hard numbers, the gap between the two is much smaller than you try to present it.

Are you sure about that? Watch stage 15 again. Pogacar was following Vingegaard's attack so easily he could sit up no hands to take a drink. Then when he decided to go Jonas had absolutely no answer. That and everything that followed in the 3rd week was with a Giro in Pogacar's legs which I say cancels Vingegaard's crash. Pogacar will be fresh for the 2025 rematch. The gap is enormous.

 

[Salvarani]

Jonas numbers was his best ever. We don't know what numbers he could've made without the crash.

Exactly, and we will see next season.

 

[Oldermanish]

Jonas numbers was his best ever. We don't know what numbers he could've made without the crash.

I love this numbers fixation...He clearly may have had some of those outputs at selective times but he didn't have the base to finish like he'd had before. He had to rely on Mateo to drag him back to Pogi's wheel on the flats, which doesn't sound like a prospective Tour winner. He was missing something then and hasn't raced since. Optimism alone doesn't tell us where he'll be. We all hope it'll be a return to form but the experiences of Remco, Bernal, Roglic...show that just getting on the bike doesn't replace the needed prep for winning a GT.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I love this numbers fixation...He clearly may have had some of those outputs at selective times but he didn't have the base to finish like he'd had before. He had to rely on Mateo to drag him back to Pogi's wheel on the flats, which doesn't sound like a prospective Tour winner. He was missing something then and hasn't race since. Optimism alone doesn't tell us where he'll be. We all hope it'll be a return to form but the experiences of Remco, Benal, Roglic...show that just getting on the bike doesn't replace the needed prep for winning a GT.

Vingegaard also killed himself more frequently by always going the long way to try and respond to Pogacar’s attacks.

 

[Oldermanish]

Vingegaard also killed himself more frequently by always going the long way to try and respond to Pogacar’s attacks.

A clear sign of lacking immediate response ability (recovery) and a certain uncertainty about his own form. You don't know what you haven't tested and Visma's rush to please sponsors and their contract incentives showed in a big way. Jonas isn't built to get used like that and perform well. He probably was convinced of his "numbers" prior to the Tour but he was not prepared. That critics of Pogacar cite Jonas' breakthrough wattage metrics to confirm some illicit supplementation by Tadej is pure BS. Unless the teams are willingly handing audited data for consideration it's all speculation by guys timing the climbs on videos. What about every other effort? To your accurate observation; being late to respond is not a good sign.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingegaard also killed himself more frequently by always going the long way to try and respond to Pogacar’s attacks.

Yup. But he must prepare for that during his career. He can't match Pogacar’s acceleration so he better build a huge engine to catch Pogacar later. I think the TT in Caen will be very important to Vingegaard and Pogacar. This will determine race dynamics.

 

[snipeheem]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853716529013043229

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1853716529013043229

 

[Peyroteo94]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853716529013043229

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1853716529013043229

If he rides RVV, Giro is out.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Big contract. 50 millions in 6 years and a 200M clause. Dude is staying with UAE until his retirement

 

[YavorD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853716529013043229

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1853716529013043229

IF he wins MSR and RVV I can see him trying Paris-Roubaix as well

 

[Lequack]

He's already in his Christmas sweater

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853385495666975048

View: https://x.com/RenaudB31/status/1853385495666975048

 

[yaf]

Now, the biggest question flooding this thread has been what would've and could've happened regarding this years tdf outcome: if ving has no injury prior to the race, If he had perfect preparation blabla...
*** what happened in 2023 tdf when ving had perfect preparation? Did he win based on his superior power to pog or does his win depend on pogs weaknesses on multiple back to back hard mountains with heat which made him crack in the 3rd week? For anyone who watched the tour the last years and analyzes it good its the easiest question in the world.
***** Ving has never won his tours based on 1 vs 1 pure power tests he won them due to his better recovery in the 3rd week as a result of his better adaptations to the heat
***** NOW POG HAS FIXED all his vulnerabilities with his new coach this year and it was evident to see for everybody so how on earth can ving beat him on the tour? At most he can only make the race interesting by increasing his power with perfect training and he can close the gap but winning it is very much tall order.

# Overall, a perfectly prepared vingegaard can only make the race interesting as there is no pog crack coming in the 3rd week in any grand tour!!!

END OF DISCUSSION!

 

[Peyroteo94]

He's already in his Christmas sweater

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853385495666975048

View: https://x.com/RenaudB31/status/1853385495666975048

I think this was last year

 

[YavorD]

***** Ving has never won his tours based on 1 vs 1 pure power tests he won them due to his better recovery in the 3rd week as a result of his better adaptations to the heat

That's just wrong. Vingegaard was stronger than Pogacar in 2022 and that should be out of question.
Yes, team strategies helped and UAE had a lot of bad luck as well but Vingegaard followed Pogacar with ease everywhere.

 

[snipeheem]

That's just wrong. Vingegaard was stronger than Pogacar in 2022 and that should be out of question.
Yes, team strategies helped and UAE had a lot of bad luck as well but Vingegaard followed Pogacar with ease everywhere.

Didnt Wout save Vingo in 1 week?

 

[yaf]

That's just wrong. Vingegaard was stronger than Pogacar in 2022 and that should be out of question.
Yes, team strategies helped and UAE had a lot of bad luck as well but Vingegaard followed Pogacar with ease everywhere.

What? 🤣 visma knew they cant win against him 1vs1 so they bring 2 of the best gc riders in the world and attacked him left and right on stage 11 and since he was a kid he tried to respond to every attack as a result cracked on granon, he tried an all out desperate attack on stage 18 attacked ving 5 times on spandels brought him all the way up the climb leads him all the way down the descent(and crashed in the process) and paid for it on hautacam.
* these were the stages in 2022 where ving won. Other than those he was spanked 1vs1 all over the tour. So now you are telling me he was better than pog😁

 

[Froome]

Jonas numbers was his best ever. We don't know what numbers he could've made without the crash.

It's not true, except for Plateau de beille.

On Pla d'adet effort he was way below marie blanque 2023 effort.

Nevertheless, obviously with better preparation and clinical issues of 2024, he would do even better on plateau de beille. Let's not forget he was 2 weeks in intensive care.

 

[Lequack]

I think this was last year

Oh darn, maybe you are right. It would make sense he would wear his world champs stripes

 

[scribers]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853716529013043229

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1853716529013043229

there are some interesting quotes from gianetti floating around. They are leaning two grand tours again. Sounding like giro/tour double again. Throws water on the P-R talk for this year, so a big no straight from the horses mouth.

 

[snipeheem]

What? 🤣 visma knew they cant win against him 1vs1 so they bring 2 of the best gc riders in the world and attacked him left and right on stage 11 and since he was a kid he tried to respond to every attack as a result cracked on granon, he tried an all out desperate attack on stage 18 attacked ving 5 times on spandels brought him all the way up the climb leads him all the way down the descent(and crashed in the process) and paid for it on hautacam.
* these were the stages in 2022 where ving won. Other than those he was spanked 1vs1 all over the tour. So now you are telling me he was better than pog😁

Preach

 

[YavorD]

What? 🤣 visma knew they cant win against him 1vs1 so they bring 2 of the best gc riders in the world and attacked him left and right on stage 11 and since he was a kid he tried to respond to every attack as a result cracked on granon, he tried an all out desperate attack on stage 18 attacked ving 5 times on spandels brought him all the way up the climb leads him all the way down the descent(and crashed in the process) and paid for it on hautacam.
* these were the stages in 2022 where ving won. Other than those he was spanked 1vs1 all over the tour. So now you are telling me he was better than pog😁

Pogacar couldn't even attack Vingegaard when Vingegaard was isolated the previous stage
At the very least Vingegaard and Pogacar were equal on that Tour. Based on hard numbers, Vingegaard was better.

It's actually tiring when some Pogacar fans try to find excuses every time he loses.
It's like saying that Pogacar only won 2020 because the defending champion fell and Visma underrated him.
He only won in 2021 because his main opponent crashed out.
And he only won in 2024 because Vingegaard spent some time in ICU.

So if you're trying to find excuses for 2022 (when he couldn't even get a meter on Vingegaard) you may as well say that he's never won a Tour when his main opponent is healthy.

 

[Bolder]

Big contract. 50 millions in 6 years and a 200M clause. Dude is staying with UAE until his retirement

That's crazy money for a sport without a league and shared broadcast revenue.

 

[yaf]

Pogacar couldn't even attack Vingegaard when Vingegaard was isolated the previous stage
At the very least Vingegaard and Pogacar were equal on that Tour. Based on hard numbers, Vingegaard was better.

It's actually tiring when some Pogacar fans try to find excuses every time he loses.
It's like saying that Pogacar only won 2020 because the defending champion fell and Visma underrated him.
He only won in 2021 because his main opponent crashed out.
And he only won in 2024 because Vingegaard spent some time in ICU.

So if you're trying to find excuses for 2022 (when he couldn't even get a meter on Vingegaard) you may as well say that he's never won a Tour when his main opponent is healthy.

Mate, In 2022 there was not much difference between them their level was almost equal but pog had the edge on the last meters of a mountain stage with his punch which was the case on that entire tour. But pog was overconfident in himself and made so many mistakes. If you are honest do you think ving would still beat him if pog raced that tour smartly like the way visma and ving did all the tours? Like if he just follows ving &out sprints him on mountains? I'm sure he wins with bonus seconds like roglic usually does but fortunately for us fans he is the entertainer & born racer.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingegaard was better than Pogacar in 2022. Pogacar was cocky and that cost him the Tour. He had a worse team and wasn't in any moment stronger than Vingegaard (different to 2023) so he should be careful after this Tour but until now, I don't see any improvement eheheh. However, there is no rider rn able to cope with his watts so he is winning.

 

[YavorD]

Mate, In 2022 there was not much difference between them their level was almost equal but pog had the edge on the last meters of a mountain stage with his punch which was the case on that entire tour. But pog was overconfident in himself and made so many mistakes. If you are honest do you think ving would still beat him if pog raced that tour smartly like the way visma and ving did all the tours? Like if he just follows ving &out sprints him on mountains? I'm sure he wins with bonus seconds like roglic usually does but fortunately for us fans he is the entertainer & born racer.

Vingegaard attacked twice and dropped Pogacar twice. Pogacar attacked 20 times and didn't drop Vingegaard once. Simply based on that I tend to believe that Vingegaard could've dropped Pogacar on another mountain stage had he tried.

Again, if you say "Vingegaard has never won 1 on 1 based on pure power" you can say that Pogacar has never won a Tour when his main opponent is healthy, can't you?