Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[ArnaudVDL]

Sarcasm?

No, didn't watch during that time. Tdf 2023 was the first major tour I fully watched

 

[Cookster15]

2024 TdF. He was very good there. With time to prepare his body, he will show his best level next July

Yes Vingegaard was superb considering the hurdles he had to overcome. But there is still a huge gap to close and he will need to reach a higher level again - something we are yet to see from him. I notice even today the rhetoric coming out of Visma is decidedly more humble than it was up until stage 15 in the Tour when they thought they had everything worked out.

The moment in the Tour which exemplified Pog’s superiority for me was shortly after Vingo attacked on that stage. Pog sat up on Vingegaard’s wheel for a drink. He had plenty left.

Where a better prep will help Vingegaard is in the final week. He won’t lose so much time. But he will still lose the Tour if Pog can be close to his 2024 level - and remember Pog won’t have a Giro in his legs next season.

All of the above assumes neither rider crashes or gets injured.

 

[Peyroteo94]

No, didn't watch during that time. Tdf 2023 was the first major tour I fully watched

Farrar was one of the best sprinters in the world in Cav prime, but of course nowhere near the level of Cav.
But I must say the biggest emotional sprint I ever saw was his 2011 TdF stage win where he dedicated his win to WW. That was a touching moment, specially after seeing WW death two months earlier live on Eurosport.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes Vingegaard was superb considering the hurdles he had to overcome. But there is still a huge gap to close and he will need to reach a higher level again - something we are yet to see from him. I notice even today the rhetoric coming out of Visma is decidedly more humble than it was up until stage 15 in the Tour when they thought they had everything worked out.

The moment in the Tour which exemplified Pog’s superiority for me was shortly after Vingo attacked on that stage. Pog sat up on Vingegaard’s wheel for a drink. He had plenty left.

Where a better prep will help Vingegaard is in the final week. He won’t lose so much time. But he will still lose the Tour if Pog can be close to his 2024 level - and remember Pog won’t have a Giro in his legs next season.

All of the above assumes neither rider crashes or gets injured.

Yeah, Pogacar will reach a higher level next year but Jonas will improve too. We don't know how good he would be without that horrible crash.

 

[Lequack]

He seems to be hanging around in the jungle

 

[Salvarani]

Nah, he will be back to his best level already next year.

He already was better than ever in the last Tour, despite the crash.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He already was better than ever in the last Tour, despite the crash.

Yes he was but I believe he could reach a higher level without the crash

 

[James M]

He already was better than ever in the last Tour, despite the crash.

Bro is just saying stuff all the time something new, flip flop in the mountain,s during this Tour Vingegaard would beat him too and the Tour was over after the stage Vingegaard won.

Way to much emotions and little nuance based on numbers id say if it was close then sure but its so far from close its just wishful thinking nothing else. Pogacar if the Ventoux stage next year was harder would properly get 2minutes if he wanted, gl.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yeah, Pogacar will reach a higher level next year but Jonas will improve too. We don't know how good he would be without that horrible crash.

To sum up, Vingo is the most dangerous (actually only) rival for the Tour GC. Nobody knows exactly how much better he could've been this year but the gap would've been considerably smaller IMO. As for the next year, who knows? After this year I won't even try to predict their future improvement.

 

[YavorD]

Bro is just saying stuff all the time something new, flip flop in the mountain,s during this Tour Vingegaard would beat him too and the Tour was over after the stage Vingegaard won.

Way to much emotions and little nuance based on numbers id say if it was close then sure but its so far from close its just wishful thinking nothing else. Pogacar if the Ventoux stage next year was harder would properly get 2minutes if he wanted, gl.

Tour 2024 was really similar to Tour '23, you know?
Pogacar was injured pre-tour but when he dropped Vingegaard on 3 stages people thought he may/will win the Tour.
Same with Vingegaard after stage 11.
Still, a healthy Vingegaard put a bit more on injured Pogacar than a healthy Pogacar on (more severely) injured Vingegaard.

Based on these hard numbers, the gap between the two is much smaller than you try to present it.

 

[RedheadDane]

He seems to be hanging around in the jungle

Nothing to see here. Just a 3-time TdF winner wearing a strange hat while doing a TT position.

Normal stuff.

 

[Oldermanish]

2024 TdF. He was very good there. With time to prepare his body, he will show his best level next July

We agree about time is needed.

 

[Oldermanish]

He already was better than ever in the last Tour, despite the crash.

No, no he wasn't. The numbers don't tell the reality that he would only be able to hold Pogacar's wheel when Tadej wasn't interested in dropping him. He was 1 1/2 weeks short of the overall form to finish that Tour on his terms.

 

[AmRacer]

No, no he wasn't. The numbers don't tell the reality that he would only be able to hold Pogacar's wheel when Tadej wasn't interested in dropping him. He was 1 1/2 weeks short of the overall form to finish that Tour on his terms.

Jonas numbers was his best ever. We don't know what numbers he could've made without the crash.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Sans Pog, everyone would be talking about how Vingo recovered to be at his top form at the 2024 Tour, especially after smashing Pantani's record on PdB. The operative assumption here seems to be that Pog could not have improved so much relative to Vingo in one year and at least part of that differential must be attributed to Vingo's crash. My sense is that it's part both: Vingo would have likely been stronger in the latter stages absent the crash, but Pog also took a monumental leap from 23-24. Vingo was, per his own admission, doing his best numbers. Pog was just stronger.
I think Pog would have won even if Vingo had not crashed, but honestly, I hope we never see this scenario again. I want them both (and Remco/Roglic) at peak strength.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sans Pog, everyone would be talking about how Vingo recovered to be at his top form at the 2024 Tour, especially after smashing Pantani's record on PdB. The operative assumption here seems to be that Pog could not have improved so much relative to Vingo in one year and at least part of that differential must be attributed to Vingo's crash. My sense is that it's part both: Vingo would have likely been stronger in the latter stages absent the crash, but Pog also took a monumental leap from 23-24. Vingo was, per his own admission, doing his best numbers. Pog was just stronger.
I think Pog would have won even if Vingo had not crashed, but honestly, I hope we never see this scenario again. I want them both (and Remco/Roglic) at peak strength.

Hope for a nice and smooth preparation to all gc riders and classics riders. We don't want to see Pogacar racing SB without Wout and MVP, MVP racing with no competition in RVV and PR; Pogacar without Remco in LBL. And more important Pogacar vs Vingegaard without crashes, Giros, etc

 

[pastronef]

Hope for a nice and smooth preparation to all gc riders and classics riders. We don't want to see Pogacar racing SB without Wout and MVP, MVP racing with no competition in RVV and PR; Pogacar without Remco in LBL. And more important Pogacar vs Vingegaard without crashes, Giros, etc

this. I really do hope in July we have the absolutely perfect storm and race conditions and form to see the Basque fans having their Ikurrinas set on fire by the speed those two sputniks will travel uphill on Hautacam. they both must come with super fit teams too. the pave from the bottom of the climbs must be infernal.

 

[hayneplane]

this. I really do hope in July we have the absolutely perfect storm and race conditions and form to see the Basque fans having their Ikurrinas set on fire by the speed those two sputniks will travel uphill on Hautacam. they both must come with super fit teams too. the pave from the bottom of the climbs must be infernal.

Would level it up a bit if there was a fierce Jonas vs Tadej battle at the Giro that brings Roglic and Evenepoel into greater contention at the Tour.

 

[pastronef]

Would level it up a bit if there was a fierce Jonas vs Tadej battle at the Giro that brings Roglic and Evenepoel into greater contention at the Tour.

Jonas doesn't even know which color is Giro's leader's jersey. Jonas and Visma want the Tour

 

[Peyroteo94]

Would level it up a bit if there was a fierce Jonas vs Tadej battle at the Giro that brings Roglic and Evenepoel into greater contention at the Tour.

Sorry but no. Gap is massive as we saw in the Tour. Pogacar rode the Giro and still was miles ahead Roglic and Remco, only God knows how much bigger the gap would be without Giro in his legs.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Dr

Still, a healthy Vingegaard put a bit more on injured Pogacar than a healthy Pogacar on (more severely) injured Vingegaard.

Based on these hard numbers, the gap between the two is much smaller than you try to present it.

That’s only due to stage design and luck where the beatdown occurred. Both before the beatdown they received on stage 16 and 15 respectively thought they would win the overall. Pogacar then had a hard mountain stage that he crashed in before the meltdown. If Vingegaard didn’t have a rest day and flat stage to recover mentally that he wasn’t winning the overall but instead had another mountain stage we don’t know if he’d crack or not like Pogacar did.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Difference was way bigger this year than last year even if the time gap was smaller this year. Last year Pogacar really pushed Vingegaard to his limits, at least during 2 weeks. Vingegaard was dropped multiple times, this year Vingegaard only threatned Pogi in stage 11 due to a very likely bad nutrition from Pogacar. In every high mountain stage, Vingegaard was dropped. By any means, this year was a closer fight compared to last year.

 

[Cookster15]

I want them both (and Remco/Roglic) at peak strength.

So do I. But I think this would just cement Pogacar's superiority. Have we all forgotten the ease with which Pogacar followed Vingegaard's planned attack on Plateau de Beille? This all happened with a Giro in his legs - not next year.

 

[Peyroteo94]

So do I. But I think this would just cement Pogacar's superiority. Have we all forgotten the ease with which Pogacar followed Vingegaard's planned attack on Plateau de Beille? This all happened with a Giro in his legs - not next year.

Even Roglic realise it now.

 

[Shortcut]

Gap is not so big. Jonas was killing everybody in spring and comparing Jonas's crash vs Giro in Pogi's legs is just not fair. Healthy Tadej (with no stupid racing) is about 30 sek-1min faster than Jonas and about 2,5-3 min faster than healthy Roglic and Remco in race like TdF 2024.Primoz from vuelta 2023 would beat Pogi from Tour 2023 and Jonas from TdF 2024. We have never seen all 4 guys in one race all in top shape and we can't really say what really the gap is. Also if gap between Tadej and Jonas is within one minute i think Primoz and Remco could really benefit from it.