Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cookster15]

When?
In 2021 Vingegaard had a nasty crash on stage 8 (yes, likely Pogacar would have won anyway but that doesn't change the fact).
Saying that Vingegaard was healthy in 2024 is less of a true than saying Pogacar was healthy in 2023.

Yes 2021 TdF stage 8 was when Pogacar destroyed every GC contender by over 3 minutes. Vingegaard was healthy.

Vingegaard’s crash can’t have been that serious else he would not have been able to finish with the GC group that day, briefly gap Pog on Ventoux nor beaten him in the stage 20 TT. 2024 Pog was hugely better than in 2021 - just as Mou promised .

Vingegaard's recovery from his April crash injuries was miraculous. But don't let his crash fool you, he was still at his best ever level on stage 15 but ran out of base load conditioning on stages 19 and 20. After the Bonette stage he admitted he wasn't as good as on the PdB. And in the stage 21 Nice TT he still beat Remco.

Vingegaard dropped 3 minutes on the last three stages. This is where he would improve hugely if he was "healthy". But he would still have lost the Tour by 3 minutes against this Pogacar. If Pog can replicate his 2024 level I can't see Vingegaard beating him.

 

[Froome]

When?
In 2021 Vingegaard had a nasty crash on stage 8 (yes, likely Pogacar would have won anyway but that doesn't change the fact).
Saying that Vingegaard was healthy in 2024 is less of a true than saying Pogacar was healthy in 2023.

Not just the nasty crash on stage 8. He had a lot of injuries before the Tour 2021, who prevented him from being better.

 

[Cookster15]

Not just the nasty crash on stage 8. He had a lot of injuries before the Tour 2021, who prevented him from being better.

Nobody knew who Vingo was at the start of the 2021 TdF. He only got his chance when Visma had to elevate him to leader when Roglic crashed. It was Visma who claimed he wouldn't start the 2024 Tour if they didn't think Vingegaard could win. Visma also admitted on the radio during PdB that they underestimated Pog's level.

Some myths erased in the 2024 Tour:

Pog doesn't like hot weather.
Pog isn't as good on long and hard stages.
Pog isn't as good late in the Tour.

Even if we disregard Vingo's misfortunes, Pogacar erased these myths compared to every other rider including Remco. And he did that with a Giro in his legs. No Giro in his legs in 2025. Hence why I can't see a healthy Vingegaard beating a healthy Pogacar at the 2025 Tour de France.

 

[Froome]

Nobody knew who Vingo was at the start of the 2021 TdF. He only got his chance when Visma had to elevate him to leader when Roglic crashed. It was Visma who claimed he wouldn't start the 2024 Tour if they didn't think Vingegaard could win. Visma also admitted on the radio during PdB that they underestimated Pog's level.

Some myths erased in the 2024 Tour:

Pog doesn't like hot weather.
Pog isn't as good on long and hard stages.
Pog isn't as good late in the Tour.

Even if we disregard Vingo's misfortunes, Pogacar erased these myths compared to every other rider including Remco. And he did that with a Giro in his legs. No Giro in his legs in 2025. Hence why I can't see a healthy Vingegaard beating a healthy Pogacar at the 2025 Tour de France.

Pogacar was never bad in hot weather, or later in the Tour. Those are myths who probably were created by his own fans.

I suggest you can see the interview of Niermann, where he said, Vingegaard can be a lot better than he was on Plateau de beille, and the difference between Pogacar and him was small in terms of watts on that climb.

It's so easy to forget that Vingegaard was 2 weeks in the intensive care before the Tour, and he still was at a good level. Imagine with the perfect preparation.

Pogacar obviously improved like Vingegaard and Remco were going to improve in a similar %, but i can't say here why this happened and will happening again in the future. Forget about the BS of new coach or nutrition.

 

[Poursuivant]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870453876140445907

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1870453876140445907?s=46&t=X4NqNG7J5ZQ-MxPOi53ECQ

I hope he isn’t relying on the Poggio again, he needs to launch on Cipressa.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I hope he isn’t relying on the Poggio again, he needs to launch on Cipressa.

Me too. Poggio is too easy

 

[yaf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870123786978152472

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1870123786978152472?t=9g3AV5tF86RYqpmTwpO1qg&s=19

Remco my boy, if you're going at this rate u will soon retire, pog has only started! u better forget the 2023, 2022, 2021, 2020...pog. He was so talented that during those years he competed & actually beat u several times without going to the gym while u've been doing it since juniors. If 2024 made u say this, in 2025 u will get back to your beloved football. So if u listen just accept where u are, try to compete against ving & enjoy being part of 🐐 era because in 2025 pog will improve twice as you & ving will improve & treat u like tom skujins in classics & like santiago buitrago in the tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870123786978152472

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1870123786978152472?t=9g3AV5tF86RYqpmTwpO1qg&s=19

Remco my boy, if you're going at this rate u will soon retire, pog has only started! u better forget the 2023, 2022, 2021, 2020...pog. He was so talented that during those years he competed & actually beat u several times without going to the gym while u've been doing it since juniors. If 2024 made u say this, in 2025 u will get back to your beloved football. So if u listen just accept where u are, try to compete against ving & enjoy being part of 🐐 era because in 2025 pog will improve twice as you & ving will improve & treat u like tom skujins in classics & like santiago buitrago in the tour.

I think he can take yellow. I expect Remco to gain 40-50 seconds in the TT to Pogacar.

 

[YavorD]

I think he can take yellow. I expect Remco to gain 40-50 seconds in the TT to Pogacar.

40-50 is way too much over 33km, that's 1,2-1,5 sec/km.
If the last Tour is anything to go by, the gap there was ~0,5 sec/km. Something between 25 and 35 is the biggest gap I expect he can make.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Remco is on his way to probably his worst season when we talk about results.
Probably, he won't be at his best in Ardennes. Can't win the Tour (or even be in contention ftw) unless something miraculous happens (a bit like Nibali in 2014). And he will try to save his season in Kigali but he needs Pogi to attend the Vuelta (to be somewhat weakened for Kigali).

 

[Peyroteo94]

40-50 is way too much over 33km, that's 1,2-1,5 sec/km.
If the last Tour is anything to go by, the gap there was ~0,5 sec/km. Something between 25 and 35 is the biggest gap I expect he can make.

I don't think so. Remco is clearly better on flat roads and this TT will be won by a rider able to put 55 kph. There is not a single hill to give Pogacar an advantage. But even if he loses only 25 seconds, Remco will still be in yellow after stage 5. It doesn't matter at all how much he gains, we all know he will get spanked already in Hautacam.

 

[yaf]

I think he can take yellow. I expect Remco to gain 40-50 seconds in the TT to Pogacar.

🤣 we all know what happened in the valley of lombardy even remco asked pog what power he was pushing there. I know it was not fresh power but in 2025 pog will look like he is on a motorbike.

 

[Peyroteo94]

🤣 we all know what happened in the valley of lombardy even remco asked pog what power he was pushing there. I know it was not fresh power but in 2025 pog will look like he is on a motorbike.

Yes, I also think there is nothing like Pogacar's engine but Remco is a master in aerodynamics.

 

[yaf]

Yes, I also think there is nothing like Pogacar's engine but Remco is a mater in aerodynamics.

Mate if i add another gear to what i've got you can't win against me no matter how aerodynamic you are

 

[Tymek]

I think he can take yellow. I expect Remco to gain 40-50 seconds in the TT to Pogacar.

I don’t. I think that at this time Pog will already be in the yellow jersey and will defend it.

Stages 2 and 4 are great for him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Mate if i add another gear to what i've got you can't win against me no matter how aerodynamic you are

I don't doubt that but I still think 45 seconds is a reasonable gap to Remco. Just see his totally flat TT in his career. He always loses more than 1 second per km.

 

[Tymek]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870576667053445615

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1870576667053445615?s=46


I think we know the name of mysterious „mou”, but it doesn’t sound Croatian.

 

[Tymek]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870510674398384281

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1870510674398384281?s=46


Is this nickname for Urska Zigart? It’s getting weirder every day.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don’t. I think that at this time Pog will already be in the yellow jersey and will defend it.

Stages 2 and 4 are great for him.

He can't drop Vingegaard there so Remco will come back

 

[Tim Cahill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870510674398384281

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1870510674398384281?s=46


Is this nickname for Urska Zigart? It’s getting weirder every day.

Irina Zelenkova is the UAE teams altitude coach, there is a conspiracy going around that she's been using carbon monoxide rebreathing method to dramatically increase the performance of several teams including UAE and Kern-Pharma, that's what they are implying.

It's nonsense however, she's been working with the team for years, and is a legitimate academic, the rebreather has been used for 20 years to measure haemoglobin mass, it can theoretically be used to increase performance but there are much safer and more studied methods to do so if they were that way inclined that wouldn't immediately spike your off-score.

The method isn't banned (yet) so can post about it in the normal section of the forum before anyone has a go.

 

[YavorD]

He can't drop Vingegaard there so Remco will come back

I think that classics riders will play a big role on these stages and some of the GT riders will ship some time. May even be Vingegaard or Evenepoel.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think that classics riders will play a big role on these stages and some of the GT riders will ship some time. May even be Vingegaard or Evenepoel.

It is hard to see Pogacar winning time (excluding bonus seconds) on Vingegaard in the first week.

 

[Froome]

It is hard to see Pogacar winning time (excluding bonus seconds) on Vingegaard in the first week.

It depends on the preparation of each rider for the Tour. If Vingegaard crashes again and spends 2 weeks in the hospital before the Tour, pogacar can be able to drop him in the first week, just like in the second and third week.

 

[YavorD]

It depends on the preparation of each rider for the Tour. If Vingegaard crashes again and spends 2 weeks in the hospital before the Tour, pogacar can be able to drop him in the first week, just like in the second and third week.

Lol, no.
Even this year Vingegaard stayed with Pogacar in the hilly stages. Pogacar only dropped him in the high mountains so by your logic Vingegaard should be able to follow Pogacar in week 1.

 

[Froome]

Lol, no.
Even this year Vingegaard stayed with Pogacar in the hilly stages. Pogacar only dropped him in the high mountains so by your logic Vingegaard should be able to follow Pogacar in week 1.

Isn't there any mountain stages in the first week? I thought there was some mountain stage in the first week.