Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Armchair Cyclist]

Impossible to go under 9 minutes and still have so much numbers in your team. They will only go under 9 minutes if they go all in and not wait for the Poggio.

I think that was the implication of @Monsi 's post: "If Pogacar does not attack on Cipressa, ideally, there should be three guys left..."
If he does it in <9 minutes, it will be due to an attack there.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think that was the implication of @Monsi 's post: "If Pogacar does not attack on Cipressa, ideally, there should be three guys left..."
If he does it in <9 minutes, it will be due to an attack there.

Oh thanks. Sorry @Monsi

 

[Tymek]

I have to think mr. wellens is playing a poker here. Pog not attacking on cipressa would be a music to vdp's ears. Vdp will consider retiring if he gets dropped in a 3km 3% climb

According to Mou, Pog will attack on Cippresa.
He wrote something about 24km solo so… it can’t be Poggio.

 

[yaf]

According to Mou, Pog will attack on Cippresa.
He wrote something about 24km solo so… it can’t be Poggio.

He has to attack on cippresa. There are lots of advantages in doing so, u minimize the risk of crashing or being boxed in from such a high speed leading to cippresa with every team going into it like a bunch sprint instead catch them by surprise and go full on capo berta and eliminate half the field there. In life, u dont have to expect different outcome while doing the same things again and again. Vdp has shown multiple times that he is strong on poggio even if uae does cippresa under 9 mins he still has some time to recover for poggio which is like a 3km 3% extended sprint for him.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He may attack on Cipressa not because it's a perfect place to attack but because he tried repeatedly (and failed) on Poggio so time for some change.

I still think it's possible that UAE with the strongest possible line-up can tire guys out on Cipressa and make absolutely thermonuclear pace on Poggio but we will see.

 

[spicelab]

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/T2kQBCks6TM?si=cYklm1B58SteWHvO

I would punch this leech if I was Pogi, or any other pro cyclist for that matter.

 

[yaf]

He may attack on Cipressa not because it's a perfect place to attack but because he tried repeatedly (and failed) on Poggio so time for some change.

I still think it's possible that UAE with the strongest possible line-up can tire guys out on Cipressa and make absolutely thermonuclear pace on Poggio but we will see.

Thats not the biggest problem for cippresa i dont know if marxtin is d*** or not but he just needs to have a moderate iq to understand what works & what wont in msr, Uae is bringing all rounders who are more of climbers than rouleurs while every other team whose name is not uae is bringing 1 leader and 6 rouleurs whose jobs are positioning the leader to the foot of the crucial climbs b/c every team knows its not up to them to pace the climbs. How does marxtin think putting 2 rouleurs like polit and oliviera fighting against 5 or 6 rouleurs per team can position the entire uae team to the front at start of cipressa? Its even less than 5% this scenario works. Instead catch them by surprise on berta eliminate some of the rouleurs of the teams there and hope u have as much as 3 guys with pog and prepare the final attack on cipressa

 

[Mina.S]

Thats not the biggest problem for cippresa i dont know if marxtin is d*** or not but he just needs to have a moderate iq to understand what works & what wont in msr, Uae is bringing all rounders who are more of climbers than rouleurs while every other team whose name is not uae is bringing 1 leader and 6 rouleurs whose jobs are positioning the leader to the foot of the crucial climbs b/c every team knows its not up to them to pace the climbs. How does marxtin think putting 2 rouleurs like polit and oliviera fighting against 5 or 6 rouleurs per team can position the entire uae team to the front at start of cipressa? Its even less than 5% this scenario works. Instead catch them by surprise on berta eliminate some of the rouleurs of the teams there and hope u have as much as 3 guys with pog and prepare the final attack on cipressa

I think smashing it on the Cipressa is the best way for Pog to win and they can definitely do it but I agree the team is a problem. This year they were all burnt out way too early. It was probably one of the worst UAE team performances of the year.

 

[yaf]

I think smashing it on the Cipressa is the best way for Pog to win and they can definitely do it but I agree the team is a problem. This year they were all burnt out way too early. It was probably one of the worst UAE team performances of the year.

And it was clear to see other teams have better rouleurs than uae as they won the battle for the foot of cipressa. They will do it again this year and will block the road once they hit the start of the climb. There is no time to organize ur disintegrated team once u start the climb and by the time uae start to organize, a km or 2 has been chopped off cipressa with a slow pace by other teams so they better eliminate them on berta

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's too easy before Cipressa. UAE can go crazy in all capos and that won't be enough.

 

[yaf]

It's too easy before Cipressa. UAE can go crazy in all capos and that won't be enough.

Ask visma what they did on 2022 tdf stage 4 on a 1.5 km 7% climb

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ask visma what they did on 2022 tdf stage 4 on a 1.5 km 7% climb

It's not great comparing stages with classics. And even worse is comparing Visma with UAE. UAE don't have a rider like WVA as a domestique.

 

[scribers]

@mou is hinting a bit at pogi going solo from cipressa. This is the only way. Domestiques at best equal the abilities of favorites to follow.

 

[scribers]

If pogi can get away solo on the cipressa and stay away, maybe building a little more time with a solo assault of the poggio, that would be a recipe for multiple wins of la primavera

 

[yaf]

It's not great comparing stages with classics. And even worse is comparing Visma with UAE. UAE don't have a rider like WVA as a domestique.

Mate wva was the winner that day not the domestique

 

[Peyroteo94]

Mate wva was the winner that day not the domestique

Mate, he was in front of Vingegaard but he couldn't follow him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If pogi can get away solo on the cipressa and stay away, maybe building a little more time with a solo assault of the poggio, that would be a recipe for multiple wins of la primavera

I hope they change the route. This race needs Manie or Pompeiana

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I hope they change the route. This race needs Manie or Pompeiana

Pogacar might need the race to have either or both of those extra obstacles: that doesn't mean the race needs them. It is not the function of race organisers to convenience Pogacar (or any other rider)

Adding Pompeiana would not really give Pogacar fans the chance to claim any more than "He won a race with the date, start and finish points and name of a previous monument": it would be an entirely different race,
It would be like Cavendish or De Kleijn claiming that they have won Milano-Torino "just like Roglic/Pinot/Uran/Contador..."

 

[YavorD]

Pogacar might need the race to have either or both of those extra obstacles: that doesn't mean the race needs them. It is not the function of race organisers to convenience Pogacar (or any other rider)

I don't know. Quite a lot of people would welcome Manie/Pompeiana with open arms a few years ago.
I'm sure if someone made a poll back in 2020 about making the race harder you'd have probably 70% approval so the fans (used to) think THE RACE needs extra obstacles.


I can agree, though, that while Pogacar is at his peak the race is good as it is. If you make it harder it would look like the deliberately want him to win it.
It's better to leave it lie this and make Pogacar be creative than to simply give him the race on a silver plate. Hell, at this point I'd go back to some of the easier Lombardia from 20ish years ago routes as well.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar might need the race to have either or both of those extra obstacles: that doesn't mean the race needs them. It is not the function of race organisers to convenience Pogacar (or any other rider)

Adding Pompeiana would not really give Pogacar fans the chance to claim any more than "He won a race with the date, start and finish points and name of a previous monument": it would be an entirely different race,
It would be like Cavendish or De Kleijn claiming that they have won Milano-Torino "just like Roglic/Pinot/Uran/Contador..."

Not Pogacar, the race. I'm old enough to see what many on this forum said 10 years ago until Pogacar's dominance. Cycling is entertainment and these days we have 5 hours of tv coverage in monuments, it is unacceptable to design a route with 10 minutes of action and say it is okay. No it is not okay and the only reason to some here not wanting a change in the route, it is because they don't want Pogacar to win. Some of them were asking for a change route 10 years ago. Cycling survived to Merckx, Hinault, Armstrong, etc. It will survive to Pogacar too.
But if putting Manie is favouring Pogacar, what can I say about designing a route with Loze, Ventoux, Hautacam, all MTF Pogacar struggled in the past.
If they brought Manie back (or if they add Pompeiana), I'm pretty sure MSR would give us more time of entertainment.

 

[KZD]

I wouldn't like to see Pompeiana added to MSR route as it would change the nature of the race making it another hilly classic where sprinters even versatile ones would have no chance against Pogačar.

However bringing Le Manie back would be nice as it would make the race a bit harder but the finish would remain the same meaning that it would still be appealing to versatile sprinters.

 

[Salvarani]

Le Manie and Pompeiana has both been in the race before.

It is part of the heritage of the actual race. The argument that it would be a different race is ludicrous and factually wrong. They been there before and can be again.

Just feel like some dont want him to win it or any race. No matter the route or race. It is just straight up hating. Lets call it what it is!

And everyone of these monuments, or any race, changes the route every now and then. All of them. It wouldnt be a "pog thing". It would be normal.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Le Manie and Pompeiana has both been in the race before.

It is part of the heritage of the actual race. The argument that it would be a different race is ludicrous and factually wrong. They been there before and can be again.

Just feel like some dont want him to win it or any race. No matter the route or race. It is just straight up hating. Lets call it what it is!

And everyone of these monuments, or any race, changes the route every now and then. All of them. It wouldnt be a "pog thing". It would be normal.

Touché!

 

[James M]

I don't know. Quite a lot of people would welcome Manie/Pompeiana with open arms a few years ago.
I'm sure if someone made a poll back in 2020 about making the race harder you'd have probably 70% approval so the fans (used to) think THE RACE needs extra obstacles.


I can agree, though, that while Pogacar is at his peak the race is good as it is. If you make it harder it would look like the deliberately want him to win it.
It's better to leave it lie this and make Pogacar be creative than to simply give him the race on a silver plate. Hell, at this point I'd go back to some of the easier Lombardia from 20ish years ago routes as well.

I agree with you dont change the route now. I could get a debate regarding the route for excitment purposes (its not my cup of tea either) on paper but the fact that its so easy is exactly why its so hard to win for anyone if you think about it, and for me the best thing is, it differentiate itself from every other monument and thats perfect. Monument should cover everything and something for all.

Ironically if anything wait untill Pog is done, MSR is originally for sprinters and it should be, add any hills and Pogacar makes it into something completely else, heritage or that its normal is fine but he would destroy em and make it into something its not orignally suppose to be, if anything cause hes to good but still, just imo.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Le Manie and Pompeiana has both been in the race before.

In terms of Pompeiana: when?