Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Salvarani]

I think Cipressa was introduced in 1982 so we have more editions without Cipressa than with Cipressa. I don't get why people get too attached to MSR's route.

It is clearly not about the route. Lets leave it at that.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think Cipressa was introduced in 1982 so we have more editions without Cipressa than with Cipressa. I don't get why people get too attached to MSR's route.

MSR is the only race that Teddy keeps racing and can't win and that's why it's to attractive to many.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Current crop of riders is the winning formula.

See MSR winners when Manie was in the race and you understand your point of view doesn't make sense IMHO.
2009: Cav
2010: Freire
2011: Goss
2012: Gerrans

 

[YavorD]

I think Cipressa was introduced in 1982 so we have more editions without Cipressa than with Cipressa. I don't get why people get too attached to MSR's route.

People are not attached. People are content with the fun and unpredictability the current route provides RIGHT NOW.

 

[Peyroteo94]

MSR is the only race that Teddy keeps racing and can't win and that's why it's to attractive to many.

Let's put 21 flat stages in the Tour just to make Pogacar lose. This is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Salvarani]

Let's put 21 flat stages in the Tour just to make Pogacar lose. This is utterly ridiculous.

21 criteriums.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Let's put 21 flat stages in the Tour just to make Pogacar lose. This is utterly ridiculous.

The charm of MSR is that it can be won by cyclists of various characteristics as the terrain doesn't give a definite advantage to any. We have mountainous stage races, hilly classics, cobbled races and we have MSR. Diversity.

 

[Salvarani]

The charm of MSR is that it can be won by cyclists of various characteristics as the terrain doesn't give a definite advantage to any. We have mountainous stage races, hilly classics, cobbled races and we have MSR. Diversity.

Le Manie wouldnt be a new edition to the race though. The race has had it before.

It is not a major change and one that wouldnt be strange at all.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The charm of MSR is that it can be won by cyclists of various characteristics as the terrain doesn't give a definite advantage to any. We have mountainous stage races, hilly classics, cobbled races and we have MSR. Diversity.

And Manie would change that? I don't think so. But it would change race dynamics for sure and probably a good race for 100 km and not a 8 km race.

 

[YavorD]

Let's put 21 flat stages in the Tour just to make Pogacar lose. This is utterly ridiculous.

See, your main argument is that "attackers should have a chance". Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Nibali 2018
Stuyven 2021
Mohoric 2022
MVDP 2023
were all attackers, weren't they?
So that's 4 attackers in the last 7 editions This is 57% success rate for attackers.

To me, it seems that attackers have a fairly good chance to win it even now.

 

[Jan the Man]

I am not fussed either way - i like the route as is but i am doubtful La Maine makes a material difference to who can win the race in terms of the current crop of contenders who have a shot - it is too far from the finish and not selective enough to decimate the race such that a big group won’t reform and chase anyone who tries a solo. I guess the argument is any additional accumulation is favourable to Pog but the Cipressa/Poggio themselves not hard enough in practice and you’ll always end up with Pog trying to distance MvP and others on Poggio. The previous inclusions did not eliminate pure sprinters, heck Cav won an edition with La Maine.

 

[Peyroteo94]

See, your main argument is that "attackers should have a chance". Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Nibali 2018
Stuyven 2021
Mohoric 2022
MVDP 2023
were all attackers, weren't they?
So that's 4 attackers in the last 7 editions This is 57% success rate for attackers.

To me, it seems that attackers have a fairly good chance to win it even now.

I'm not talking about attackers in Poggio. Poggio will always have attacks. I'm talking about attacks in the last 90 km. MSR 2010 was very interesting due to the combination of Turchino and Manie. I'm asking for a race with entertainment in the last 2 hours just like every other monument. Not a "6 hours race of nothing" and 15 minutes of entertainment.

 

[hayneplane]

See, your main argument is that "attackers should have a chance". Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Nibali 2018
Stuyven 2021
Mohoric 2022
MVDP 2023
were all attackers, weren't they?
So that's 4 attackers in the last 7 editions This is 57% success rate for attackers.

To me, it seems that attackers have a fairly good chance to win it even now.

None of those involved any kind of moves beyond the final 20 minutes of racing which is a far shorter final than almost every race close to the stature of MSR.

 

[YavorD]

None of those involved any kind of moves beyond the final 20 minutes of racing which is a far shorter final than almost every race close to the stature of MSR.

And that's a good thing. It's different. Even gives the sprinters a chance.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Why demare can't have a opportunity to win a monument?

You don't remember how they decided to introduce cobbles to Roubaix after Démare wasn't far from winning it in 2017? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[Peyroteo94]

"If you don't beat Joao Almeida, you won't beat Tadej Pogacar" - Lance Armstrong far from impressed by Jonas Vingegaard's Paris-Nice showing

Jonas Vingegaard's showing at Paris-Nice 2025 ended badly, with the Dane being forced to abandon the race following a crash on stage 5. Before that though, things were relatively okay for Team Visma |...

cyclinguptodate.com

 

[SHAD0W93]

"If you don't beat Joao Almeida, you won't beat Tadej Pogacar" - Lance Armstrong far from impressed by Jonas Vingegaard's Paris-Nice showing

Jonas Vingegaard's showing at Paris-Nice 2025 ended badly, with the Dane being forced to abandon the race following a crash on stage 5. Before that though, things were relatively okay for Team Visma |...

cyclinguptodate.com

Vingegaard was worse than previous year climbing wise but he’s building up for the Tour-Vuelta. CdD will be a good check on his form. With his recovery and strength last year at the Tour and the benchmark of Pogacar last year, he should be close to that. Team strength will be similar and Visma learned they can’t just rely on the heat and hard stage. He’ll have to get over the descent issue though but with increased muscle mass that should be better, it’d just be mental. Barring crash or injury I think they’re within 2 mins of each other.

 

[YavorD]

"If you don't beat Joao Almeida, you won't beat Tadej Pogacar" - Lance Armstrong far from impressed by Jonas Vingegaard's Paris-Nice showing

Jonas Vingegaard's showing at Paris-Nice 2025 ended badly, with the Dane being forced to abandon the race following a crash on stage 5. Before that though, things were relatively okay for Team Visma |...

cyclinguptodate.com

Lance Armstrong of all people to say that something in March, or even in June, is in any way relevant to the shape in July is just ridiculous.
Imagine the scenes in 2005 "If you don't beat Levi Leipheimer, you can't hope beating Jan Ulrich".

 

[hayneplane]

And that's a good thing. It's different. Even gives the sprinters a chance.

Gent-Wevelgem gives the sprinters a chance but also sees proper attacks more than 50km away from the finish on the penultimate Kemmelberg and beyond.

 

[hayneplane]

Vingegaard was worse than previous year climbing wise but he’s building up for the Tour-Vuelta. CdD will be a good check on his form. With his recovery and strength last year at the Tour and the benchmark of Pogacar last year, he should be close to that. Team strength will be similar and Visma learned they can’t just rely on the heat and hard stage. He’ll have to get over the descent issue though but with increased muscle mass that should be better, it’d just be mental. Barring crash or injury I think they’re within 2 mins of each other.

At the moment I would be more concerned that only Jorgensen (and to an extent Kooij) is looking like anything more than a shadow of their former self across the entire squad. This speaks to a much greater malaise than just concerns about Jonas not looking dominant.

The rouleur aspect was fine in Paris-Nice as evidenced by the TTT and the crosswinds effort but the climbing domestiques have been very poor so far in 2025.

 

[Peyroteo94]

At the moment I would be more concerned that only Jorgensen (and to an extent Kooij) is looking like anything more than a shadow of their former self across the entire squad. This speaks to a much greater malaise than just concerns about Jonas not looking dominant.

The rouleur aspect was fine in Paris-Nice as evidenced by the TTT and the crosswinds effort but the climbing domestiques have been very poor so far in 2025.

Their TT look fine but visma riders have been mediocre in mountain stages IMHO (except Matteo).

 

[hayneplane]

Their TT look fine but visma riders have been mediocre in mountain stages IMHO (except Matteo).

Mediocre is a very generous description

 

[Peyroteo94]

Mediocre is a very generous description

I think it's too early.
In fact only Vingegaard has been disappointing because I expected his base level to be strong enough to beat everyone bar Pogacar in over 6/7 minutes climbs.
- Kuss is never reliable in the spring.
- Matteo has been really good just like last year.
Yates is probably undercooked and he is peaking for the Giro. Most gc riders who will target the Giro, are very underwhelming now. This is why Ayuso looks too hot IMHO.
- Keldermann is a very strange rider, we never know what to expect from him.
- Cian is what he used to be. A early peaker.

 

[hayneplane]

I think it's too early.
In fact only Vingegaard has been disappointing because I expected his base level to be strong enough to beat everyone bar Pogacar in over 6/7 minutes climbs.
- Kuss is never reliable in the spring.
- Matteo has been really good just like last year.
Yates is probably undercooked and he is peaking for the Giro. Most gc riders who will target the Giro, are very underwhelming now. This is why Ayuso looks too hot IMHO.
- Keldermann is a very strange rider, we never know what to expect from him.
- Cian is what he used to be. A early peaker.

Tiberi and Gee are both targeting the Giro and both looked good in TA in relation to what you can expect from them. Landa and Hindley were also decent enough considering they are better 3 week racers than 1 week. It’s only the Yates brothers that have shown nothing yet and Roglic who has yet to pin on a race number this year.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Let's put 21 flat stages in the Tour just to make Pogacar lose. This is utterly ridiculous.

And who has said anything even vaguely analogous to that?