Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Everyone will know what tacit UAE will use next year and will try to f**k it up by not letting UAE doms be infront going into Cipressa. Question is if they will succeed. If Pog can get a clean and perfect leadout on Cipressa he might get 10-15 seconds on top of the climb. Then they question is if the closest followers quickly can organize a chase on the flat before Poggio.

Anyhow, many things must fall in place for Pog to win MSR. That's the difference to Mathieu in this race.

Would be fun if Remco participates next year.

It is impossible to be worse than this year so they will be good

 

[scribers]

Pogi was 40+ faster than the rest of the power horses that couldn’t get in and stay in his draft. No reason to believe he doesn’t have that advantage again next year with favorable dynamics at the start of the climb.

 

[Arvid Falk]

Pogi was 40+ faster than the rest of the power horses that couldn’t get in and stay in his draft. No reason to believe he doesn’t have that advantage again next year with favorable dynamics at the start of the climb.

It is easier said than done to get a perfect leadout on Cipressa. As I said, other teams will try to disrupt. This year was still better than last year. Narvaez was really impressive, a good addition to the team.

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[scribers]

I agree. But beginning the climb at 40th position is unacceptable for the favorite. I am not asking for miracles here, but the race pogi brings is won or lost at that moment. Just three UAE guys out of 4 ideal candidates to help launch, in the right position please.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogi was 40+ faster than the rest of the power horses that couldn’t get in and stay in his draft. No reason to believe he doesn’t have that advantage again next year with favorable dynamics at the start of the climb.

This. The peloton was completely in pieces and full of empty legs. Pogi only needs to worry in dropping everyone.

 

[kn0s]

He just needs a hard race all day. Then, do what MVP does every time he races against Pogacar in MSR.

My logic tells me that is the equivalent of telling MvdP just to stay in the wheel of pogi in LBL, he is physically incapable of doing it. MSR and RVV is sort of meeting in the middle, that's why it's so entertaining. But if physics really is a thing as Pogacar says, then RP should be much, much worse than MSR.

 

[scribers]

They will struggle mightily to latch back on, and if they do at the poggio, well, we know now what that will look like. MVP did the record time on the poggio and no one in group 2 did that.

 

[scribers]

My logic tells me that is the equivalent of telling MvdP just to stay in the wheel of pogi in LBL, he is physically incapable of doing it. MSR and RVV is sort of meeting in the middle, that's why it's so entertaining. But if physics really is a thing as Pogacar says, then RP should be much, much worse than MSR.

I am not as sure the physics of P-R is as detrimental to pogi.

 

[Brullnux]

There is a lot of draft in Roubaix. He doesn't need to produce the same watts. He needs to follow and play defensive and try a sneaky attack later.

I think this ignores that VdP and other specialists can probably gap Pogacar while cornering on cobbles, so then the draft is gone. I don't think being defensive and reactive will get him far in Paris Roubaix, maybe a top ten of something.

 

[Brullnux]

I am not as sure the physics of P-R is as detrimental to pogi.

No but his (relative) lack of skills are. We saw what happened when Ganna was in the front group at Paris-Roubaix, he lost so much time on each corner that he was spent by the end, and that's while being a monster roleuur. Pogacar is better at this than Ganna, but when MvdP goes all out on cobbles you need better skills and more experience than Pog to follow. You can't just follow and hope for the best, he has to control it himself.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think this ignores that VdP and other specialists can probably gap Pogacar while cornering on cobbles, so then the draft is gone. I don't think being defensive and reactive will get him far in Paris Roubaix, maybe a top ten of something.

People talk like Pogacar is a bad bike handler. Maybe he is not on the level of MVP but he is better than (for example) Ganna. I'm not saying he will win but I'm sure he won't be worse than most cobbled specialists (Ganna, Pedersen, etc).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

People talk like Pogacar is a bad bike handler. Maybe he is not on the level of MVP but he is better than (for example) Ganna. I'm not saying he will win but I'm sure he won't be worse than most cobbled specialists (Ganna, Pedersen, etc).

Yup, MVP is the favourite (with or without Pogi) but I think the Slovenian would be in contention for top places. They could give it a try this year and see how it goes.

 

[Arvid Falk]

Pog has such a tremendous engine and I think he looks quite good on the cobbles the few time I have seen him ride on them. So, I would never rule him out. But MVDP is the favorite to win PR, hard do argue with that. Besides his incredible power his amazing technical skills give him an extra advantage (especially if it's wet). And he was scary good last year.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pog has such a tremendous engine and I think he looks quite good on the cobbles the few time I have seen him ride on them. So, I would never rule him out. But MVDP is the favorite to win PR, hard do argue with that. Besides his incredible power his amazing technical skills give him an extra advantage (especially if it's wet). And he was scary good last year.

But people forget he won with a 3 minutes gap because Gianni and Phillipsen were neutralizing every single attack and cooperation. Alpecin completely dominate PR last year.

 

[Peyroteo94]

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[Peyroteo94]

MVP was on the limit by his own words. I think he will need to be flawless if he wants to win RVV.

 

[Brullnux]

People talk like Pogacar is a bad bike handler. Maybe he is not on the level of MVP but he is better than (for example) Ganna. I'm not saying he will win but I'm sure he won't be worse than most cobbled specialists (Ganna, Pedersen, etc).

Ganna isn't a cobbled specialist. And being good on cobbles is not the same as being a good bike handler, it's a different skill (though they do overlap). Even Nibali wouldn't be able to cope with the cornering of someone with a lot of experience on cobbles – only Pidcock can, really, and that comes from his MTB and off road background. All it takes is for MvdP to take a corner with slightly more intensity than Pogacar can cope with and it's a 3 metre gap that means with the added power van der Poel has, he's gone, as the draft is no longer there to aid Tadej. You underestimate how hard Roubaix is technically, and the difference this makes

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ganna isn't a cobbled specialist. And being good on cobbles is not the same as being a good bike handler, it's a different skill (though they do overlap). Even Nibali wouldn't be able to cope with the cornering of someone with a lot of experience on cobbles – only Pidcock can, really, and that comes from his MTB and off road background. All it takes is for MvdP to take a corner with slightly more intensity than Pogacar can cope with and it's a 3 metre gap that means with the added power van der Poel has, he's gone, as the draft is no longer there to aid Tadej. You underestimate how hard Roubaix is technically, and the difference this makes

Nibali and Pidcock don't/didn't have the engine to be competitive in PR. He's probably not beating MVP but he is younger, one day MVP will be gone.

 

[Arvid Falk]

MVP was on the limit by his own words. I think he will need to be flawless if he wants to win RVV.

And still he managed to do a strong 300 m sprint where Ganna and Pog never stood a chance. And for MVDP to hang with an all out attack by Pog when almost everyone else lost at least 40s says something about MVDP's shape. I think he is more ready than ever to take on Pog in Flanders. I say it's 50-50, but that's me.

 

[Peyroteo94]

And still he managed to do a strong 300 m sprint where Ganna and Pog never stood a chance. And for MVDP to hang with an all out attack by Pog when almost everyone else lost at least 40s says something about MVDP's shape. I think he is more ready than ever to take on Pog in Flanders. I say it's 50-50, but that's me.

I still think 2023 RVV and 2023 MSR tell us a lot. But I just hope for no crashes to see another duel of this great rivalry.

 

[hayneplane]

This. The peloton was completely in pieces and full of empty legs. Pogi only needs to worry in dropping everyone.

The group behind was so shell shocked at being so much further behind than they could comprehend that they looked bedraggled and demoralised. In those circumstances I think it showed that when the selection has been made on strength the attackers can stay away and build on the descent and flat between Cipressa and Poggio.

It said it all that the group 2 doubled or trebled in size even while still losing time to the leading trio.

If he can open up a 15 metre gap where drafting becomes barely a factor and holds it for a couple of hundred metres it can extend quickly as on Galibier vs Jonas on Stage 4 2024 TDF.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The group behind was so shell shocked at being so much further behind than they could comprehend that they looked bedraggled and demoralised. In those circumstances I think it showed that when the selection has been made on strength the attackers can stay away and build on the descent and flat between Cipressa and Poggio.

It said it all that the group 2 doubled or trebled in size even while still losing time to the leading trio.

If he can open up a 15 metre gap where drafting becomes barely a factor and holds it for a couple of hundred metres it can extend quickly as on Galibier vs Jonas on Stage 4 2024 TDF.

If he opens a gap, he will gain easily 15 seconds in 2.5 km to his closest opponent.
Maybe next year he can learn from his mistakes and do a btter job in Cipressa.

 

[Purito91]

Will he skip E3 and GW if he decides to ride paris roubaix? I think i read that anywhere a few weeks ago.

 

[scribers]

Mou is still on about e3 so apparently that’s still on regardless of intentions ahead

 

[Fos]

And still he managed to do a strong 300 m sprint where Ganna and Pog never stood a chance. And for MVDP to hang with an all out attack by Pog when almost everyone else lost at least 40s says something about MVDP's shape. I think he is more ready than ever to take on Pog in Flanders. I say it's 50-50, but that's me.

Another way to look at it is that in 2023, MVP won much more comfortably and then clearly gave up in Flanders. So in 2025, he's been on the edge in the race that's easier for him...