Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Froome]

2-3 km climb and reasonably steep (i.e. 8%+) is on the edge of Vingo's striking zone. If he's in form and total elevation gain is huge (i.e. Liege on steroids) then he's definitely a serious candidate for podium but beating Pogi is obviously difficult.

Especially cote domancy where Vingegaard have good memories.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Tour de France stage 1 in 2023 and stage 2 in 2024 beg to differ. He's perfectly fine on climbs of that length.

The problem for Vingegaard is can he peak for a 1 day race for once.

Yes, maybe once the Danish federation will talk him into WC (when it has a monster total elevation gain) and he will try to peak for them. The only doubt left is how well he actually can handle 250+ km races. I'm not assuming he has problems with that but some top riders have had and he hasn't delivered yet in these kind of races to clear those doubts.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Sorry to burst your bubbles. Vingegaard's chances of beating Pogacar in the World Championship road race are close to 0. Those who studied the parcour and history of said riders know the answer. He should still show up and dare to be great.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, maybe once the Danish federation will talk him into WC (when it has a monster total elevation gain) and he will try to peak for them. The only doubt left is how well he actually can handle 250+ km races. I'm not assuming he has problems with that but some top riders have had and he hasn't delivered yet in these kind of races to clear those doubts.

I'd assume it's more one day race specificity than sheer endurance. He hasn't exactly lit up shorter one day races either.

I also think it would be fairly atypical in the sense that a very low% of the time that is raced is gonna be on flats or false flats, and that's unlike even most hilly classics.

 

[Cycling111]

We saw Vingegaard give his all at O Gran Camino last year.
He doesn't like to lose.

If he's been to Liège and Lombardia six times, it wasn't to waste time and fall behind Enric Mas and Landa in 2023.

I'm not saying he couldn't improve his performances. But it's spoken as if he hadn't had any opportunities and hadn't performed too badly in all of them.

It reminds me of Froome.
Froome prepared for some one-day races and was a complete failure. He couldn't perform in one-day races.
There are other examples of stage riders who haven't performed well in one-day races.
The most recent and obvious example has been Froome.

We'll see if Vingegard can improve. But starting from such poor results, it's not that he simply needs to improve; improving would be top-five. To win, he'll have to make a huge leap forward from his previous results.

The only top 10 one year in San Sebastian

Race	2016	2017	2018	2019	2020	2021	2022	2023	2024
Amstel Gold Race	—	—	—	—	X	115.º	—	—	—
FW	—	—	—	—	71.º	84.º	Ab.	—	—
	Liege	—	—	—	—	84.º	28.º	Ab.	—	—
San Sebastian	—	—	—	—	X	8.º	—	—	Ab.
Bretagne Classic	—	—	—	—	—	61.º	—	—	—
Quebec	—	—	—	84.º	X	X	—	—	—
Montreal	—	—	—	84.º	X	X	—	—	—
	Lombardía	—	—	—	—	Ab.	14.º	16.º	—	—
	Ab.	—	40.º	26.º	31.º	—	—	—	—
	—	—	—	22.º	—	—	—	—	—

I looked at Froome's results and he has DNFs in every World Championship (6)
I underestimated him; he's incomparable

 

[Poggenheimer]

Pog is racing Amstel. I am happy.

 

[pastronef]

so will he rest mid-week end skip Fleche?

 

[Rasto]

no, he want ardens tripple

 

[Poggenheimer]

no, he want ardens tripple

And he shall have, hopefully.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So Pogi is riding AGR. I'm really surprised. He's not as dead as his zigzags at the end or PR suggested.
If I were his DS I would make a different strategic decision but who am I kidding? Teddy is the real DS.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Pog already removed two races to be able to ride Roubaix and he wants the Ardennes triple, I was never doubting he‘d start.

 

[Netserk]

Tour de France stage 1 in 2023 and stage 2 in 2024 beg to differ. He's perfectly fine on climbs of that length.

The problem for Vingegaard is can he peak for a 1 day race for once.

Froome was also fine on Mur de Huy when it was in the Tour. Not so much in April.

 

[Red Rick]

Froome was also fine on Mur de Huy when it was in the Tour. Not so much in April.

WC aren't in April. In fact Froomes only somewhat acceptable 1 day result was the ORR inbetween the TdF and Vuelta.

 

[Netserk]

WC aren't in April. In fact Froomes only somewhat acceptable 1 day result was the ORR inbetween the TdF and Vuelta.

Yeah, but San Sebastian last year two days before Pologne was even worse than Froome in Liège two days before Romandie in 2013.

I think there's a lot of specific explanations for many of the underperformances (by both), but it's mostly downstream of them both not caring about one-day races.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, but San Sebastian last year two days before Pologne was even worse than Froome in Liège two days before Romandie in 2013.

I think both got the full training ride treatment.

 

[Netserk]

I think both got the full training ride treatment.

Iirc, Froome did try something on Colonster? (Or was that Contador)

 

[Red Rick]

Iirc, Froome did try something on Colonster? (Or was that Contador)

Attacking on Colonster would reinforce that it was not a serious attempt at anything to be honest.

Vingegaard in 1 day races is more akin to the likes of Contador or Quintana than Froome.

 

[James M]

So Pogi is riding AGR. I'm really surprised. He's not as dead as his zigzags at the end or PR suggested.

While it was only logic indeed, logic and common sense don't apply to him. He’s transcending modern-day cycling norms in almost every race he competes in now, so as we talked about im not surprised.

 

[James M]

I am currently sticking needles into my voodoo teddy bear.

You should properly hug your teddy bear extra hard on Sunday.

 

[Extinction]

Attacking on Colonster would reinforce that it was not a serious attempt at anything to be honest.

Vingegaard in 1 day races is more akin to the likes of Contador or Quintana than Froome.

What did Froome do in one day races more than Contador or Quintana?

 

[Cookster15]

Vingegaard in 1 day races is more akin to the likes of Contador or Quintana than Froome.

Alberto Contador was much better than Vingegaard in 1 day races. e.g. Contador rode well in La Flèche Wallonne.

What are Vingegaard's best results in one day races? Looking at PCS seem like finding needles in haystacks.

I am sure he might do well if he targeted a 1 day race. But beat Pogacar? Nah. Not even with super hard worlds courses like Hinault 1980. Vingo needs two weeks of fatigue in the legs to do his thing and if 2024 Pogacar shows up that won't be enough anyway.

 

[Froome]

Alberto Contador was much better than Vingegaard in 1 day races. e.g. Contador rode well in La Flèche Wallonne.

What are Vingegaard's best results in one day races? Looking at PCS seem like finding needles in haystacks.

I am sure he might do well if he targeted a 1 day race. But beat Pogacar? Nah. Not even with super hard worlds courses like Hinault 1980. Vingo needs two weeks of fatigue in the legs to do his thing and if 2024 Pogacar shows up that won't be enough anyway.

Not be the favourite against pogacar, doesn't mean you can't be competitive and do a good result in a 1 one day race.

Simply, Vingegaard never tried to be close to his best shape in a 1 day race, so we really don't know if he is talented or not to 1 day races.

My personal opinion is that i don't see any reason for him to not be competitive in hilly 1 one day races because he can push high power in short efforts.

 

[Cookster15]

Not be the favourite against pogacar, doesn't mean you can't be competitive and do a good result in a 1 one day race.

Simply, Vingegaard never tried to be close to his best shape in a 1 day race, so we really don't know if he is talented or not to 1 day races.

My personal opinion is that i don't see any reason for him to not be competitive in hilly 1 one day races because he can push high power in short efforts.

Yes but he would likely jeopardize his prep for his stage racing objectives. That was Red Rick's point (below). And Pogacar doesn't specifically try to be close to his best shape for these races.

The problem for Vingegaard is can he peak for a 1 day race for once.

because he can push high power in short efforts.

Maybe he can but so can many others. That is anaerobic. Vingegaard's great advantage is his aerobic endurance. But I am glad we are talking about Vingegaard targeting more than stage racing for once.

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe he can but so can many others. That is anaerobic. Vingegaard's great advantage is his aerobic endurance. But I am glad we are talking about Vingegaard targeting more than stage racing for once.

Only road cycling fans would ever think 7 minute efforts are anaerobic. It's actually longer than a typical VO2 max effort. In track and field it would be solidly middle distance.

 

[Lequack]

Sorry to burst your bubbles. Vingegaard's chances of beating Pogacar in the World Championship road race are close to 0. Those who studied the parcour and history of said riders know the answer. He should still show up and dare to be great.

I love your new signature!