Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Medvind]

Pogi had plenty to win with today, he just lost tactically in a spectacular fashion.

And that's make you wonder what they say to him on the radio. Even I knew Ala would drop on the next climb and that Pog would be alone from thereon. And apparently the plan was not to go so early. Now he went solo from 40k, spent a lot of energy, and still lost. Sure seems like UAE f**ked this up.

 

[Rou]

Anyways I expect tomorrow or at the latest on Tuesday an announcement from UAE that Pog will not ride Fleche. Anything other than that would shock me.

 

[jmdirt]

It's about palmarès, always will be. As a cyclist you're only as good as your last race (this applies to all sportsmen) and some day Pog will no longer be the best. Then what? Well people look back and if there's any hint of "he could have won the record number of GT's but didn't" then yeah, it'll be seen as a disappointment.

First things first he needs to win the TdF a few more times. More than 5 in total, for sure.



I clicked on this thread and I saw a barrage of posts doing exactly that, i.e. fans questioning his schedule. I'm just reading what I'm reading.

Clearly not fans then.

 

[Cycling111]

I disagree. Remco was doing the heavy labour and was catching Pog on the climbs. Maybe without dragging Skjelmose he could have caught him sooner.

No. Someone who has help, even minimal, will always spend less energy than someone who goes alone. Also, considering that Pogacar gos solo 50 km alone, Remco and Skjelmose less km.

 

[scribers]

And that's make you wonder what they say to him on the radio. Even I knew Ala would drop on the next climb and that Pog would be alone from thereon. And apparently the plan was not to go so early. Now he went solo from 40k, spent a lot of energy, and still lost. Sure seems like UAE f**ked this up.

I don't think the team really really knows where Pogi's limits are. They lost riders to crash and the pace they were setting was still inferno before he took off. Basically if Pogi says he wants to go, they have to listen to him and not interfere. Pogi will be his best DS always and learn a valuable lesson about himself today.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I disagree. Remco was doing the heavy labour and was catching Pog on the climbs. Maybe without dragging Skjelmose he could have caught him sooner.

You must be kidding. Remco was beaten because he was cooked too.

 

[scribers]

No. Someone who has help, even minimal, will always spend less energy than someone who goes alone. Also, considering that Pogacar gos solo 50 km alone, Remco and Skjelmose less km.

I want to bag on Skelj for sucking wheels, but we know guys behind him experience very little in the way of benefit compared to following other riders (yeah, Ramco is short). Skelj was just strong enough, and Remco and Pogi were just dumb enough. That's the race.

 

[Rou]

Clearly not fans then.

A fan or supporter is someone who cheers on you even when you're down and critiques your mistakes. A fan is not someone who is there to just enjoy the show and treats the rider like a circus monkey to perform all the time.
The people who critique Pog's calendar are those who want him to perform his best and not overdo it.

 

[Cycling111]

I don't think the team really really knows where Pogi's limits are. They lost riders to crash and the pace they were setting was still inferno before he took off. Basically if Pogi says he wants to go, they have to listen to him and not interfere. Pogi will be his best DS always and learn a valuable lesson about himself today.

A high ritm isn't always for attacking; it's often to avoid attacks from rivals.

At a high ritm, there are less attacks because riders can't surprise with a strong attack, and because if the team is at a slow ritm, rivals might suspect that the leader isn't well.

The ideal is to maintain a stead ritm, even if the idea is to attack later.
Pogacar said in the preview that he wanted to attack later, and I believe him. In Strade and other races, he's often announced his attack. This time, he said it would be later, but the crashes and Alaphilippe's attack made him forget his plan.
He made the mistake of not doing what he himself had planned before the race.

 

[Medvind]

I don't think the team really really knows where Pogi's limits are. They lost riders to crash and the pace they were setting was still inferno before he took off. Basically if Pogi says he wants to go, they have to listen to him and not interfere. Pogi will be his best DS always and learn a valuable lesson about himself today.

But given how hard the P-R race was last weekend and that Pog was quite fatigued in the end of that race, it sure seemed possible that Pog might suffer again if he rides alone for several kilometers after a hard race. Surely DS should give some input to Pog so he can make a good decision. And who knows, maybe the did and Pog decided to disregard it.

 

[scribers]

A high ritm isn't always for attacking; it's often to avoid attacks from rivals.

At a high ritm, there are less attacks because riders can't surprise with a strong attack, and because if the team is at a slow ritm, rivals might suspect that the leader isn't well.

The ideal is to maintain a stead ritm, even if the idea is to attack later.
Pogacar said in the preview that he wanted to attack later, and I believe him. In Strade and other races, he's often announced his attack. This time, he said it would be later, but the crashes and Alaphilippe's attack made him forget his plan.
He made the mistake of not doing what he himself had planned before the race.

I'd have to do an analysis, but he was shedding teammates up to that moment. The only one left to follow was McNulty. So they weren't managing the pace well if that was the intention as it would have only served to isolate their leader.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Someone pretending Remco would catch Pogacar sooner if he wasn't with Skjelmose is just joking. Remco was cooked too, it wasn't just Pogacar for sure. Just see his sprint, he was beaten by everyone.

 

[Cycling111]

It's about palmarès, always will be. As a cyclist you're only as good as your last race (this applies to all sportsmen) and some day Pog will no longer be the best. Then what? Well people look back and if there's any hint of "he could have won the record number of GT's but didn't" then yeah, it'll be seen as a disappointment.

First things first he needs to win the TdF a few more times. More than 5 in total, for sure.



I clicked on this thread and I saw a barrage of posts doing exactly that, i.e. fans questioning his schedule. I'm just reading what I'm reading.

I have the feeling you're speaking as a Roglic fan. But it's the Pogacar thread; the perspective isn't the same as in the Roglic thread. Even though they compete in GT, they're very different.

I like Roglic, I liked Contador even more. But I especially like Pogacar because he's different, and he does things that Hinault and previous rides did. Indurain was the first great leader who decided to changes. That's why Indurain isn't my favorite historic rider.

Anyone who's a Pogacar fan has to be aware of his challenges.

Someone whose favorite rider is Froome or Vingegaard might not understand, although that's no reason to discredit all his achievements like a couple of forum members do.
But someone who's a Pogacar fan can't ask him to do Froome's or Vingegaard's calendar; that's not Pogacar, he'd be another rider.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Pogi came to have a beer and had a beer, mission accomplished.

 

[Cycling111]

I'd have to do an analysis, but he was shedding teammates up to that moment. The only one left to follow was McNulty. So they weren't managing the pace well if that was the intention as it would have only served to isolate their leader.

Yes, we all joke about blaming Alaphilippe, but I think being without a team was more important.

As soon as Alaphilippe attacked, he came out to make a statement and prevent further attacks. If he hadn't come out, attacks could have continued, and he'd have to control them alone.

It reminded me of Zurich. Tratnik said the attack wasn't planned so early, but Pogacar was left without teammates 100 km from the finish, and there were entire teams like Belgium. Being without a team, he preferred to attack because later on he'd be alone against Belgium. The lack of earpieces makes the chase difficult.

That day, if he had waited, he might not have won, not because he wasn't physically strong, but Belgium was too powerful, and with that attack and no direct communication, he made everyone nervous, and the chase was an unorganized disaster.

 

[scribers]

Yes, we all joke about blaming Alaphilippe, but I think being without a team was more important.

As soon as Alaphilippe attacked, he came out to make a statement and prevent further attacks. If he hadn't come out, attacks could have continued, and he'd have to control them alone.

It reminded me of Zurich. Tratnik said the attack wasn't planned so early, but Pogacar was left without teammates 100 km from the finish, and there were entire teams like Belgium. Being without a team, he preferred to attack because later on he'd be alone against Belgium. The lack of earpieces makes the chase difficult.

That day, if he had waited, he might not have won, not because he wasn't physically strong, but Belgium was too powerful, and with that attack and no direct communication, he made everyone nervous, and the chase was an unorganized disaster.

Pogi also didn't have P-R in his legs that day. Same scenario he wins by 3 minutes today and Remco laments not being able to see Pogi's butt the final 50k.

 

[BubbaChuck]

we lost sprint against skjelmose,lmao.we trully cooked now.wanted to break tv,lol.pog was dead and he still went with 40 k.he is nuts.

 

[Cycling111]

It's not that he lost. What hurts him more is that he was beaten by Skjelmose who was able to stay with Remco. It is completely different to lose against MVDP in San Remo and Roubaix and to lose against Mattias in AGR.

VDP lost Flanders against Asgreen. Pogacar is a historic rider, but in the end, the second place in both was the same.
How many people don't know that Hoban defeated Merckx in a classic? The defeats against De Vlaeminck are more memorable.

I don't think he's particularly frustrated because he underestimates Skjelmose. Precisely, finishing ahead of Remco will change the interpretation.
If he had lost only to Skjelmose, without Remco, he might see it differently.

think we're exaggerating. Last year, VDP didn't perform well at Amstel, a race in which he should be on the podium
As VDP himself said, he was exhausted after the PR.

 

[scribers]

#29,000

How many times can Pogi pass Remco in one day???

Also, I passed 4,000 myself. My apologies to everyone impacted for each one of those. ::takes a bow::

Pogi is going to have his hands full with Remco at LBL. I find it difficult to believe Remco won't be close after today, PR or not. Was it established that he had been in altitude camp prior to reentering the race schedule? Because I don't recall him being this strong right out of the chute.

 

[rafa92]

Anyways I expect tomorrow or at the latest on Tuesday an announcement from UAE that Pog will not ride Fleche. Anything other than that would shock me.

I was expecting that before amstel, listening to his interview post race I'm afraid they'll make another mistake and send him also to fleche. If they do liege will be very difficult to win

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Now the eternal second. How the times have changed.

 

[Rackham]

I have the feeling you're speaking as a Roglic fan. But it's the Pogacar thread; the perspective isn't the same as in the Roglic thread. Even though they compete in GT, they're very different.

I like Roglic, I liked Contador even more. But I especially like Pogacar because he's different, and he does things that Hinault and previous rides did. Indurain was the first great leader who decided to changes. That's why Indurain isn't my favorite historic rider.

Anyone who's a Pogacar fan has to be aware of his challenges.

Someone whose favorite rider is Froome or Vingegaard might not understand, although that's no reason to discredit all his achievements like a couple of forum members do.
But someone who's a Pogacar fan can't ask him to do Froome's or Vingegaard's calendar; that's not Pogacar, he'd be another rider.

As a Rog fan I come at this from an entirely different perspective, i.e. it's about maximizing the rider's potential, no matter the era or context he's in. That's all I care about. Aka whether he's giving the best he's got in his legs in any race. I don't care how he's viewed or talked about.

For Pog fans (& this applies to Evenepoel as well) it would appear his standing in the history books of cycling matter more, including how he's 'perceived' by everyone, not just the races he wins.

It's a different challenge. You pretty much admit it here with talk of 'historic rider'. I think chasing such 'history making' is a bit of a side-quest in cycling terms. IMO (& this is just me) Pog should shoot to win the biggest races and avoid a scattergun approach. Racing the Ardennes so soon after PR does look a bit scattergun-ish.

 

[Extinction]

As a Rog fan I come at this from an entirely different perspective, i.e. it's about maximizing the rider's potential, no matter the era or context he's in. That's all I care about. Aka whether he's giving the best he's got in his legs in any race. I don't care how he's viewed or talked about.

For Pog fans (& this applies to Evenepoel as well) it would appear his standing in the history books of cycling matter more, including how he's 'perceived' by everyone, not just the races he wins.

It's a different challenge. You pretty much admit it here with talk of 'historic rider'. I think chasing such 'history making' is a bit of a side-quest in cycling terms. IMO (& this is just me) Pog should shoot to win the biggest races and avoid a scattergun approach. Racing the Ardennes so soon after PR does look a bit scattergun-ish.

But you have to race to be considered. Potential? What if those of yore only thought of that? We'd have no history to talk about.

 

[yaf2]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1914033750347853844

View: https://x.com/lucasaganronald/status/1914033750347853844?t=Zj9q06zbjH87Rurer7_Fvg&s=19

Have to agree

 

[scribers]

Where is the race profile of this perfect Worlds for Pogi people keep claiming? I need to see this for myself to believe. as the more I hear it the more I am skeptical