Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cycling111]

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And in pure BS maybe too, as for neo-pro Pogi, he was beaten consistently by Rogla as neo-pro. Not so much in pro era, but one has to understand some started doubting Rogla, at Visma, Rogla had to sort that issue out first, that was not an environment to flourish anymore, being in such position. Now Rogla is back again, on where he wants to be, spanking Pogi or Jonas, doesn't make much difference to him. It's scheduled for later in the season, currently occupied with Giro.

Remember that Roglic was in the 2024 Tour de France and in the mountain stages he was closer to Remco than Pogacar.

In the first time trial, he lost 20 seconds to Pogacar. But the most important thing is that Roglic was never able to keep up with Pogacar during his attacks in mountain.

Roglic has only been on Pogacar's level when Pogacar was a neopro. Over the years, the gap has only widened.
Last year at the Tour, there was a clear gap between them. Until the day he retired, Roglic was never a rival to Pogacar. Not even in Lioran, which was Pogacar's worst stage.

Don't talk as if Roglic didn't exist in the 2024 Tour. We've already seen the difference between him and Pogacar.
Roglic was at Remco's level, not even Vingegaard's.

 

[Shortcut]

Remember that Roglic was in the 2024 Tour de France and in the mountain stages he was closer to Remco than Pogacar.

In the first time trial, he lost 20 seconds to Pogacar. But the most important thing is that Roglic was never able to keep up with Pogacar during his attacks in mountain.

Roglic has only been on Pogacar's level when Pogacar was a neopro. Over the years, the gap has only widened.
Last year at the Tour, there was a clear gap between them. Until the day he retired, Roglic was never a rival to Pogacar. Not even in Lioran, which was Pogacar's worst stage.

Don't talk as if Roglic didn't exist in the 2024 Tour. We've already seen the difference between him and Pogacar.
Roglic was at Remco's level, not even Vingegaard's.

I agree that the gap is getting bigger, especially in one-day races—without crashes, Pogacar probably wins 10 out of 10. Still, I don’t believe the difference between them is as obvious as it was last year. Roglic came to the Tour de France injured, and even before the Dauphiné, his preparation wasn’t ideal (again due to injury). I simply think we still haven’t seen a real battle between Pogacar and him where both are at 100%. There’s no way Roglic would have dropped the way he did on Stage 2 of the Tour otherwise—a stage that should have suited him perfectly. And he didn’t just lose time to Tadej, but to half the peloton. His time trial was a disaster too.
I’m convinced that the Roglic from the 2023 Vuelta would have beaten the Pogacar from the 2023 Tour—but only because Pogacar was injured, not because Roglic was better. By the end of last year, Roglic was completely burnt out, just like Pogacar was at the end of 2023, when Roglic even beat him at Giro dell’Emilia and stayed very close to him on the final climb in Lombardia, despite having raced the Vuelta beforehand.
Don’t get me wrong—Tadej is my favorite rider—but we’ve still never seen all four top guys at the Tour in top shape, injury-free before the race. Of course, staying healthy is a skill in itself, but if Jonas reaches the level where Tadej can’t just ride away from him with ease, I think Roglic can benefit a lot from that. I don’t think he can win, but I do believe the gap after three weeks would be around two minutes—not 7+ minutes.

 

[Oldman]

Barring crashes, I expect Roglic to be fighting Evenepoel for third while the other two are further up the road.

2nd.

 

[Oldman]

Remember that Roglic was in the 2024 Tour de France and in the mountain stages he was closer to Remco than Pogacar.

In the first time trial, he lost 20 seconds to Pogacar. But the most important thing is that Roglic was never able to keep up with Pogacar during his attacks in mountain.

Roglic has only been on Pogacar's level when Pogacar was a neopro. Over the years, the gap has only widened.
Last year at the Tour, there was a clear gap between them. Until the day he retired, Roglic was never a rival to Pogacar. Not even in Lioran, which was Pogacar's worst stage.

Don't talk as if Roglic didn't exist in the 2024 Tour. We've already seen the difference between him and Pogacar.
Roglic was at Remco's level, not even Vingegaard's.

Roglic was...and is now. Jonas and Remco have to prove themselves, again. Pogacar is the only improving standard so we can only guess where it all goes. My guess is, sans crashing; Roglic finishes 2nd to Pogacar and not that far back.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I love how confident people are on Roglic in the Tour. Doing Giro-Tour is not the same as Tour-Vuelta.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Remember that Roglic was in the 2024 Tour de France and in the mountain stages he was closer to Remco than Pogacar.

In the first time trial, he lost 20 seconds to Pogacar. But the most important thing is that Roglic was never able to keep up with Pogacar during his attacks in mountain.

Roglic has only been on Pogacar's level when Pogacar was a neopro. Over the years, the gap has only widened.
Last year at the Tour, there was a clear gap between them. Until the day he retired, Roglic was never a rival to Pogacar. Not even in Lioran, which was Pogacar's worst stage.

Don't talk as if Roglic didn't exist in the 2024 Tour. We've already seen the difference between him and Pogacar.
Roglic was at Remco's level, not even Vingegaard's.

When Almeida puts the tempo, Roglic will suffer a lot in the Tour. And we have to see if he doesn't crash before.

 

[Rou]

I love how confident people are on Roglic in the Tour. Doing Giro-Tour is not the same as Tour-Vuelta.

Until proven otherwise Roglic has the superior recovery compared to Pogacar when it comes to Grand Tours. Tour-Vuelta is harder because after the Tour Pogi is completely dead. Examples: 2022 and 2023. In 2020 Rogla did the Tour injured after the Dauphine and still went to the Vuelta and won it later.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Until proven otherwise Roglic has the superior recovery compared to Pogacar when it comes to Grand Tours. Tour-Vuelta is harder because after the Tour Pogi is completely dead. Examples: 2022 and 2023. In 2020 Rogla did the Tour injured after the Dauphine and still went to the Vuelta and won it later.

Not, it isn't... recent history already showed Tour-Vuelta is easy to do. Vingegaard almost won Tour-Vuelta and he was training in Danmark after the Tour.
Roglic's recovery is better than Pogacar? WTH are you talking about??? Pogacar just won the Triple Crown last year against a fresh Roglic in the Tour.

 

[Cookster15]

Until proven otherwise Roglic has the superior recovery compared to Pogacar when it comes to Grand Tours. Tour-Vuelta is harder because after the Tour Pogi is completely dead. Examples: 2022 and 2023. In 2020 Rogla did the Tour injured after the Dauphine and still went to the Vuelta and won it later.

Not sure what facts or logic supports this argument??

I’d say after 2024 that 2022 and 2023 are no longer valid for Pogacar.

After the first Giro-Tour double in 26 years Pog went on to win more big races including the worlds and GdL. And pretty sure history says Giro/Tour is harder than Tour/Vuelta.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not sure what facts or logic supports this argument??

I’d say after 2024 that 2022 and 2023 are no longer valid for Pogacar.

After the first Giro-Tour double in 26 years Pog went on to win more big races including the worlds and GdL. And pretty sure history says Giro/Tour is harder than Tour/Vuelta.

Nairo Quintana, Froome, Valverde, this previous generation did a better Tour-Vuelta than Giro-Tour. Even Contador had a fracture in his leg and 6 weeks was racing the Vuelta (and he won).

 

[Rou]

Not sure what facts or logic supports this argument??

I’d say after 2024 that 2022 and 2023 are no longer valid for Pogacar.

After the first Giro-Tour double in 26 years Pog went on to win more big races including the worlds and GdL. And pretty sure history says Giro/Tour is harder than Tour/Vuelta.

This is why I said ''until proven otherwise''. My examples are before the Sola era when Pogacar had worst recovery than Roglic. I don't know how he would react after a tough Tour this year but we probably won't find out again (because he will likely skip La Vuelta).

 

[Rou]

Nairo Quintana, Froome, Valverde, this previous generation did a better Tour-Vuelta than Giro-Tour. Even Contador had a fracture in his leg and 6 weeks was racing the Vuelta (and he won).

From your examples only Froome won the Tour-Vuelta in 2017. Froome was the mutant of Grand Tours for that period.
Pogacar is one of the two mutants who could have done Giro-Tour in 2024. Tour-Vuelta is harder than Giro-Tour in 2025 because in the Vuelta there is usually higher level and competition than the Giro.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is why I said ''until proven otherwise''. My examples are before the Sola era when Pogacar had worst recovery than Roglic. I don't know how he would react after a tough Tour this year but we probably won't find out again (because he will likely skip La Vuelta).

He is racing a heavy spring schedule when other GT riders are cruising in the part of the season. How you simply ignore that? Last year was the first year, Pogacar didn't have a heavy spring and we all saw how dominant he was in 2 GTs. Roglic was nowhere in the Tour racing against Pogacar with a Giro in his legs and you are telling me he recovers better? Unfortunately for Roglic, Pogacar is better than in everything cycling offers. Descents, short climbs, long climbs, flat TTs, hilly TTs, recovery, flat terrain, cobbles, gravel, positioning, sprint. Pogacar is better in everything!
Sorry, there is one thing Roglic is better! Crashing.

 

[AupaPyama]

He is actually underrated and still suffer from situations that occurred during his Movistar days. People still meme it.

He is very solid and reliable.

He is better than with Movistar, but that's why I wrote "sometimes he still got his own agenda". In each Tour I've watched you see him waste unnecessary energy. Wasnt he also in breaks (with no tactial plan) when it was still unclear that Pogi would win in 2024? As a Tour contender with an opponent as Vingegaard/Visma you need a 100% dedicated team. So imo no Ayuso and Soler.That doesnt make them bad riders, but they are not helpers.

 

[Rou]

He is racing a heavy spring schedule when other GT riders are cruising in the part of the season. How you simply ignore that? Last year was the first year, Pogacar didn't have a heavy spring and we all saw how dominant he was in 2 GTs. Roglic was nowhere in the Tour racing against Pogacar with a Giro in his legs and you are telling me he recovers better? Unfortunately for Roglic, Pogacar is better than in everything cycling offers. Descents, short climbs, long climbs, flat TTs, hilly TTs, recovery, flat terrain, cobbles, gravel, positioning, sprint. Pogacar is better in everything!
Sorry, there is one thing Roglic is better! Crashing.

Ok, first of all you know I'm a Pogi fan but second I'm also realistic.
Roglic in last year's TDF was by far not in optimal shape. You made the claim that Roglic will not top 5 the Tour this year which I think is ridiculous (unless he crashes again which is his kryptonite).
IMO Roglic is closer than Pogacar and Vingegaard than you think. Roglic is a top 15 rider of all time and you are disrespecting him for some reason.

 

[Rou]

I'm pretty sure Roglic has realized by now that Pogacar is superior to him but this is not my point. My point is that Roglic is a real threat to Pogacar in the Tour and you are talking about him like he is Enric Mas or Mikel Landa.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ok, first of all you know I'm a Pogi fan but second I'm also realistic.
Roglic in last year's TDF was by far not in optimal shape. You made the claim that Roglic will not top 5 the Tour this year which I think is ridiculous (unless he crashes again which is his kryptonite).
IMO Roglic is closer than Pogacar and Vingegaard than you think. Roglic is a top 15 rider of all time and you are disrespecting him for some reason.

I'm not underrating Roglic. I'm just basing my opinion in actual facts and last year he was struggling to beat Remco (in fact Remco was better) in the Tour until his crash. How convenient it is to say he was far from his best shape when he was the only rider with a perfect preparation for the Tour (okay, he lost something like 7 days of training after his crash in Pais Vasco) and was destroyed by Pogacar and Vingegaard in every hilly or mountain stage. This is a fact so there is nothing to suggest Roglic is close to Vingegaard and Pogacar. He isn't. If you tell me he is better than Remco, I cannot disagree with you but close to Vingegaard and Pogacar? Hell no!

And please, top 15 rider of all times? I would like to see your list to claim a thing like this...
Just in the specialization era, I rank Froome, Contador, Indurain, Pogacar, MVP, Cancellara, Boonen higher and I probably forgot some riders.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'm pretty sure Roglic has realized by now that Pogacar is superior to him but this is not my point. My point is that Roglic is a real threat to Pogacar in the Tour and you are talking about him like he is Enric Mas or Mikel Landa.

Nah, don't put words in my mouth. Roglic is clearly the third best GT rider (even if Remco was a little bit better than him last year) but how the hell is Roglic a threat to Pogacar in the Tour? Pogacar can put a minute on him very easily in every mountain stage you put in the Tour.

 

[Netserk]

If he finishes the Tour, I'll gladly bet that he is more likely to top-5 than not.

 

[Rou]

Nah, don't put words in my mouth. Roglic is clearly the third best GT rider (even if Remco was a little bit better than him last year) but how the hell is Roglic a threat to Pogacar in the Tour? Pogacar can put a minute on him very easily in every mountain stage you put in the Tour.

I agree with that. He is the third best GT rider which makes him a threat. A rider like Ben O'Connor who is not a top 10 best GT rider is not a threat. But Primoz Roglic is a threat.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I agree with that. He is the third best GT rider which makes him a threat. A rider like Ben O'Connor who is not a top 10 best GT rider is not a threat. But Primoz Roglic is a threat.

No he isn't. Facts don't support your opinion. Pogacar's only threat is Vingegaard.

 

[Rou]

No he isn't. Facts don't support your opinion. Pogacar's only threat is Vingegaard.

I just hope this prediction of yours doesn't fail like a lot of your other predictions.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I just hope this prediction of yours doesn't fail like a lot of your other predictions.

I will be here to say I was wrong. Don't worry. And I don't fail a lot of predictions, I just can be very wrong in one or two predictions. And of course I can fail on this one but Roglic has been so prone to crashes and will probably have 3 riders better than him, so there is a real possibility he will not top5.

 

[Salvarani]

I just hope this prediction of yours doesn't fail like a lot of your other predictions.

Touché.

 

[Didinho]

Pogi always attacking, even when he’s not riding.

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