Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[ppanther92]

But they can't just go mano a mano. Jonas and Pogacar need a strong team to set up an attack. There is a huge difference with Marc Soler setting you up for an attack and peak Sepp Kuss doing that.

Whats the difference? It does maximally matter psychological if its a yellow or white jersey upping the speed before an attack. And I don’t think Pogacar cares too much.

The only difference the team can make in the high mountains is chasing back after or act as a relay station - for both use cases Pogacar would have to be dropped before anyway.

The only other one is maybe a bottle or gel and Pogi has some history of underfeeding. But that should be manageable.

Visma is probably going to be stronger, totally see that but not in a way Pogacar has to ride the last 50km of a mountain stage alone and go back to the car to feed and so on.

 

[BigCoward]

Yates should be allowed to skip tour and do vuelta. It suits him best anyway.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yates should be allowed to skip tour and do vuelta. It suits him best anyway.

Nah, he is needed in the Tour.

 

[AupaPyama]

Yates is off par the whole year. Or he doesnt want to work for Ayuso (Tirreno, Catalunya, Giro) and prepares for the Tour; or he is really not good enough this year.

I'm curious to see the teams selections. Is there a focus on high mountains or on flat domestiques? If Yates doenst show improvement Felix Grossssschartner could be a good replacement; totally dedicated mountain goat.

Also with Visma (Kuss/Yates for the same role?) and who replaces Laporte?

 

[Cycling111]

It's nothing to be worry about, Adam will be in shape.

I've been reading this for months.

Adam said his poor start to the season was to be in shape for the Giro, but that hasn't been the case. It's been a trend since the Vuelta.
When a trend lasts for months, it is probably to continue.

 

[AmRacer]

I've been reading this for months.

Adam said his poor start to the season was to be in shape for the Giro, but that hasn't been the case. It's been a trend since the Vuelta.
When a trend lasts for months, it is probably to continue.

He will peak for the Tour.

 

[Cycling111]

Based on?

I suppose he's saying that because of Simon's form.

But I'm not worried about Pogacar. He looks good.
I'm more worried about the difference between Simon and Adam this year or Sivakov's level in the mountains.
I have no doubt that Pogacar will be in good shape.

I don't know if he also says this because of how useless they are in the UAE.
Pogacar already knows he shouldn't pay attention to the car. Given today's performance, the best thing he can do is rely on his experience. He's already had good and bad experiences like Granon, so he should trust his experience and not what Matxin and whoever else was in the car today tell him.

 

[BubbaChuck]

pog vs visma,you can already see it.if simon is even better than this,jorg reaches new level and kuss returns to old form,ist gonna get spicy.pog probabllly needs 7,5 for 40 to win it on loze.we will be there.greatest tour since eddie days is coming.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingegaard will still need to drop Pogacar if he wants to win.

 

[BubbaChuck]

pog will cover jorg,if he shows some crazy level.

 

[Rou]

Based on?

I've said it before. Based on the fact that Visma have a stronger squad in the Tour and have better tactics. Pogacar cannot resolve every problem alone with just brute strength. Visma resurrected Simon Yates back to a GT winner with record numbers.
Pogi can still win but it will be much harder because his team sucks.

 

[Peyroteo94]

pog will cover jorg,if he shows some crazy level.

Matteo is so overrated. Jesus Christ. In RVV, some people were talking about him (after his strong performance in PN) and he got completely destroyed.

 

[Rou]

Matteo is so overrated. Jesus Christ. In RVV, some people were talking about him (after his strong performance in PN) and he got completely destroyed.

Mate, today we saw the old gun Yates demolish everyone. You should believe in miracles because Visma are cooking one. PN and smaller races don't matter for that team. When July approaches they forget about morals and mercy and they kill their competitors.

 

[yaco]

Seeing this Simon, I have no doubt that Kuss will fly in the Tour.
And we already saw Jorgenson at Paris-Nice.

The biggest unknown among the Visma climbers is Kuss.

Adam is in poor shape, and Sivakov is an unknown in the mountains this year.

Adam's situation does seem worrying to me.
I don't think I'm exaggerating. Adam went to the Giro as co-leader and at no point has he been close to someone like Derek Gee. And far from his brother. Majka has been climbing better than him. Honestly, if he's in poor shape, I almost prefer Majka, even though he's 36. I think an Adam Yates in poor shape is less helpful.

At the end of the day riders like Pogi and Jonas don't need the strongest teams because they are so good.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Mate, today we saw the old gun Yates demolish everyone. You should believe in miracles because Visma are cooking one. PN and smaller races don't matter for that team. When July approaches they forget about morals and mercy and they kill their competitors.

I already said this one time, Pogacar in 2023 had a higher ceilling than Vingegaard. His suboptimal preparation cooked him in the third week.
Last year, Vingegaard also had a bad preparation so his loss was expected. However, some people seem to forget Pogacar didn't have a great preparation too. He was riding the Giro and still showed an incredible shape. This year, we will see a significant better Pogacar, he will fly for sure. What I saw in the classics is just a superior rider in aerobic power.

 

[Cycling111]

At the end of the day riders like Pogi and Jonas don't need the strongest teams because they are so good.

Not always. Granon

And Vingegaard saved that Tour because he had Van Aert on the cobbles. That day in the UAE, Vingegaard would´ve lost the Tour.

 

[Cycling111]

Matteo is so overrated. Jesus Christ. In RVV, some people were talking about him (after his strong performance in PN) and he got completely destroyed.

If you asked me a few months ago, I'd tell you I thought Jorgenson would climb better in the Tour than Simon.

And if you were told months ago that Simon would win the Giro, I wouldn't believe it,
Or that he´d surpass his brother Adam in Finestre by more than 6 minutes

If Simon has achieved this, don't underestimate Jorgenson, who was in excellent shape at Paris-Nice.
Sivakov and Narvaez were terrible in the mountains at Paris-Nice.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If you asked me a few months ago, I'd tell you I thought Jorgenson would climb better in the Tour than Simon.

And if you were told months ago that Simon would win the Giro, I wouldn't believe it,
Or that he´d surpass his brother Adam in Finestre by more than 6 minutes

If Simon has achieved this, don't underestimate Jorgenson, who was in excellent shape at Paris-Nice.
Sivakov and Narvaez were terrible in the mountains at Paris-Nice.

I'm not underestimating anyone. Pogacar and Vingegaard are really two steps above everyone.

 

[Salvarani]

Mate, today we saw the old gun Yates demolish everyone. You should believe in miracles because Visma are cooking one. PN and smaller races don't matter for that team. When July approaches they forget about morals and mercy and they kill their competitors.

Both S. Yates and Carapaz, for that matter, were climbing really well in the 3rd week of the Tour last season.

I think both of these were just being underrated before the Giro.

S. Yates also only rode TA and Catalunya for race days and building up very slowly. Flying under the radar.

I think people just were underestimating what he still could do. Because pedigree and underlining things clearly suggested this was possible, why Visma also signed him.

He peaked here though and it could be hard to do that again in the Tour, but likely he starts slow there and is only expected to be there in the high mountains. We will see.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Both S. Yates and Carapaz, for that matter, were climbing really well in the 3rd week of the Tour last season.

I think both of these were just being underrated before the Giro.

S. Yates also only rode TA and Catalunya for race days and building up very slowly. Flying under the radar.

I think people just were underestimating what he still could do. Because pedigree and underlining things clearly suggested this was possible, why Visma also signed him.

He peaked here though and it could be hard to do that again in the Tour, but likely he starts slow there and is only expected to be there in the high mountains. We will see.

He will cruise for 11 days just like Adam and then be at his best. GC guys are very strong and if they don't race full gas every day, they can be at their best very easily in important stages.

 

[ppanther92]

I suppose he's saying that because of Simon's form.

But I'm not worried about Pogacar. He looks good.
I'm more worried about the difference between Simon and Adam this year or Sivakov's level in the mountains.
I have no doubt that Pogacar will be in good shape.

I don't know if he also says this because of how useless they are in the UAE.
Pogacar already knows he shouldn't pay attention to the car. Given today's performance, the best thing he can do is rely on his experience. He's already had good and bad experiences like Granon, so he should trust his experience and not what Matxin and whoever else was in the car today tell him.

They all will be 2 levels below Pogacar and Vingegaard anyway. I just don't think its going to be the decisive factor. What is Yates going to do? He will be not good enough to run a "dual threat" strategy on Pogacar - and setting up an attack is overrated in the high mountains in my opinion (drafting matters close to 0 above certain gradients).

 

[ppanther92]

I've said it before. Based on the fact that Visma have a stronger squad in the Tour and have better tactics. Pogacar cannot resolve every problem alone with just brute strength. Visma resurrected Simon Yates back to a GT winner with record numbers.
Pogi can still win but it will be much harder because his team sucks.

I think Visma being stronger is a realistic scenario. But I simply don't think Pogi has a 2020, 2021 or 2022 team with no one being able to follow the 15-20 best climbers. Even if you have Kuss, Yates, Jorgenson outclimbing Almeida, Yates, Sivakov, it will not be that Pogi is alone from a huge distance but probably a few hundred meters max.

 

[Peyroteo94]

They all will be 2 levels below Pogacar and Vingegaard anyway. I just don't think its going to be the decisive factor. What is Yates going to do? He will be not good enough to run a "dual threat" strategy on Pogacar - and setting up an attack is overrated in the high mountains in my opinion (drafting matters close to 0 above certain gradients).

Visma can ride as hard as possible, Vingegaard still needs to drop Pogacar or another PdB scenario will happen.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Visma can ride as hard as possible, Vingegaard still needs to drop Pogacar or another PdB scenario will happen.

Agreed. People dont understand how much better Pogi and Vingo are compared to the rest.

They are useful for the first 5km of a climb to keep their legs fresh as long as possible until one decide to go, after the others look like they stopped pedalling.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Agreed. People dont understand how much better Pogi and Vingo are compared to the rest.

They are useful for the first 5km of a climb to keep their legs fresh as long as possible until one decide to go, after the others look like they stopped pedalling.

I still remember how Pogacar gained more than 3 minutes in the last 10km of Isola 2000 to Matteo. It's absurd! And I'm not even talking about PdB or Galibier (he gained 38 seconds to Roglic and co in just 850m).