Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Rou]

Vingegaard in 2023 (pre-crash).
1st in Gran Camino
3rd in Paris-Nice
1st in Itzulia
1st in Dauphine
1st in the TDF (with insane level)
2nd in the Vuelta (the strongest rider)
68 race days
I want to measure Pogacar against this guy not against some farmers in Canada and Italy.

 

[James M]

@Rou

It doesn't make sense to talk about race days. There are more race days in the five days of the Algarve than in the two days of De Ronde and Paris-Roubaix. But the latter is much more demanding and requires special training. The Algarve is a preseason destination; some cyclists won't even prepare for the race and go after a light initial training session.

He admittedly didn’t take context into account, essentially admitting he just told himself what he wants to be happen. At that point, there’s not much to debate. Whether what he wants to believe or not doesn’t change any facts.

 

[Rou]

He admittedly didn’t take context into account, essentially admitting he just told himself what he wants to be happen. At that point, there’s not much to debate. Whether what he wants to believe or not doesn’t change any facts.

James, is it a fact that Pogacar lost the TDF 22 and was cooked and couldn't do the Vuelta?
He always exits the Tour depleted.

 

[Cycling111]

Ridiculous or not Pogacar can't double a Tour with a Vuelta. Every year he finishes the Tour on fumes.

That's because you compare him to those who have done it and neither Froome, Vingegaard nor Roglic have changed weight and have dedicated months of the season to training to go racing on cobblees.

By the way, Vingegaard hasn't even made his debut in a world championship, and Froome made a fool of himself in every one of them.

 

[yaco]

Pogacar says they've decided it's best to stop. He says it in the plural. Apparently, the team has advised him to stop.

What I don't like is him going back to Canada. The best way to rest isn't to take another long trip before a second trip to Rwanda.


“After such a demanding Tour, we decided it was best to take a break. The Vuelta is, of course, a race I would dearly love to return to. I have fantastic memories there from 2019, but now the body is telling me to rest. I’m excited to go back to Canada; the races are tough but beautiful, and they fit my style well. I’ll be aiming to be back racing well again for that part of the season and for the World Championships especially.

You are always complaining. There is nothing wrong with Pogacar's schedule for the remainder of the year which is simalar to 24 and that worked out well.

 

[James M]

Pogacar says they've decided it's best to stop. He says it in the plural. Apparently, the team has advised him to stop.

What I don't like is him going back to Canada. The best way to rest isn't to take another long trip before a second trip to Rwanda.


“After such a demanding Tour, we decided it was best to take a break. The Vuelta is, of course, a race I would dearly love to return to. I have fantastic memories there from 2019, but now the body is telling me to rest. I’m excited to go back to Canada; the races are tough but beautiful, and they fit my style well. I’ll be aiming to be back racing well again for that part of the season and for the World Championships especially.

The WC are clearly the main goal left—he really wants that double WC title, no doubt.

Personally, I agree about Canada, but it worked well last year as prep for the WC and he was flying then. Thats why i dont care, even though I initially not high on it. But It’s hard to knock it when it worked as part of his training plan for his form for the WC so effectively last year. Sticking to that plan now is probably also a matter of comfort.

 

[Rou]

That's because you compare him to those who have done it and neither Froome, Vingegaard nor Roglic have changed weight and have dedicated months of the season to training to go racing on cobblees.

By the way, Vingegaard hasn't even made his debut in a world championship, and Froome made a fool of himself in every one of them.

You are missing my point again.
Pogacar after 2024 is not comparing himself with these guys.
He is comparing himself with MERCKX.
And Merckx doesn't race only 50 days.

 

[Cycling111]

You are always complaining. There is nothing wrong with Pogacar's schedule for the remainder of the year which is simalar to 24 and that worked out well.

I complain about the decision because this year's Vuelta is the easiest. And I have the feeling the team hasn't advise him because of the problems they have with other riders, mainly Ayuso.

But I'm not saying Pogacar is incapable of doing two GTs, nor am I comparing him to other cyclists who don't compete in the Classics in Spring, not even at his level.

By the way, since Ayuso is such a leader, I hope he goes to UAE Tour next year and Pogacar isn't the one who has to bring forward his debut again to go to that race.
Pogacar had to move his debut forward a few weeks this year due to that commitment.

 

[rafa92]

James, is it a fact that Pogacar lost the TDF 22 and was cooked and couldn't do the Vuelta?
He always exits the Tour depleted.

2 things: 1) pogacar in 2022 raced cobbled classics and as we have seen from 2024 when he focuses on GC racing his level is much higher in GT, despite doing more race days. 2) pogacar is on a completely different level from 2022, it's not even close, especially on long climbs

 

[rafa92]

You are missing my point again.
Pogacar after 2024 is not comparing himself with these guys.
He is comparing himself with MERCKX.
And Merckx doesn't race only 50 days.

yes and pogacar doesn't face a peloton of semi professionals from mostly 4 nations

 

[Rou]

2 things: 1) pogacar in 2022 raced cobbled classics and as we have seen from 2024 when he focuses on GC racing his level is much higher in GT, despite doing more race days. 2) pogacar is on a completely different level from 2022, it's not even close, especially on long climbs

Yes, but his level this year is lower than 2024 and we expected more in the mountains?
I mean it's not guaranteed if next year he might be weaker than this year as well.

 

[Cycling111]

The WC are clearly the main goal left—he really wants that double WC title, no doubt.

Personally, I agree about Canada, but it worked well last year as prep for the WC and he was flying then. Thats why i dont care, even though I initially not high on it. But It’s hard to knock it when it worked as part of his training plan for his form for the WC so effectively last year. Sticking to that plan now is probably also a matter of comfort.

The World Championships were in Europe. In Australia, many cyclists didn't adapt well to the trip. Although the trip to Rwanda isn't that long.

I think this year's WC is uncontrollable for Slovenia . Last year's was the same, which is why he did a long-distance attack, especially to distance VDP.

 

[Rou]

Anyways, guys.
I don't know if somebody here shares my opinion.
I expected more from Pogacar.
I'm disappointed.
Peace.

 

[rafa92]

Yes, but his level this year is lower than 2024 and we expected more in the mountains?
I mean it's not guaranteed if next year he might be weaker than this year as well.

can you read? it's exactly what I said, focusing on cobbles and classics his level in GTs is a bit lower but still sufficient to dominate vingegaard because after 2023 he's made a huge improvement.

 

[MariaB]

Anyways, guys.
I don't know if somebody here shares my opinion.
I expected more from Pogacar.
I'm disappointed.
Peace.

Me too.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think he loves too much his holidays on August.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I complain about the decision because this year's Vuelta is the easiest. And I have the feeling the team hasn't advise him because of the problems they have with other riders, mainly Ayuso.

But I'm not saying Pogacar is incapable of doing two GTs, nor am I comparing him to other cyclists who don't compete in the Classics in Spring, not even at his level.

By the way, since Ayuso is such a leader, I hope he goes to UAE Tour next year and Pogacar isn't the one who has to bring forward his debut again to go to that race.
Pogacar had to move his debut forward a few weeks this year due to that commitment.

You are speculating, thats what you are doing. Did Pogacar look like a rider wanting to ride the Vuelta the last week of the Tour? No, he didn't. This end of season schedule is tested and tried and works very well after an extremely demanding first part of the season. The Vuelta is no rush at all, calm down. Pogi needs some week now to relax and slowly start training again, its only human. No one rider in the peloton does what he does.

Quebec, Montreal, WC ITT, WC RR, Emilia, Tre Valle and Lombardia is a perfectly fine schedule. Maybe he will even do the EC in between and skip some of the lesser Italian classics, who knows.

 

[rafa92]

Anyways, guys.
I don't know if somebody here shares my opinion.
I expected more from Pogacar.
I'm disappointed.
Peace.

expected what exactly? win the tour with 6 minutes instead of 4:30 and winning 6 stages instead of 4? to be even more dominant in GTs he has to prepare specifically for that, no cobbles.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The World Championships were in Europe. In Australia, many cyclists didn't adapt well to the trip. Although the trip to Rwanda isn't that long.

I think this year's WC is uncontrollable for Slovenia . Last year's was the same, which is why he did a long-distance attack, especially to distance VDP.

Canadian classics are a terrible option before Rwanda. Jet lag and hours of travelling.

 

[Cycling111]

You are missing my point again.
Pogacar after 2024 is not comparing himself with these guys.
He is comparing himself with MERCKX.
And Merckx doesn't race only 50 days.

Merkx didn't have rivals like Vingegaard or Roglic, who did practically nothing in the spring.

To give you an example, De Vlaeminck, who holds the Paris-Roubaix record alongside VDP, finished top 10 at the Sallanches World Championships, climbers WC. VDP isn't even going to compete in Rwanda.

Cycling today is much more specialized, and Pogacar competes against one specialized cyclist in the spring and against another in the Tour de France.

In Merckx's time, everyone competed a lot; no one was at home in the spring.

You should appreciate that Pogacar has regained his versatility and criticize his rivals. What you can't criticize Pogacar for is not competing for 100 days like Merckx when Vingegaard is going to the Vuelta to save his season and Remco isn't even doing that.

 

[Peyroteo94]

A rider who dominates Giro-Tour (a harder double) is also able to dominate Tour-Vuelta. I really think he doesn't care about the Vuelta.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

You are missing my point again.
Pogacar after 2024 is not comparing himself with these guys.
He is comparing himself with MERCKX.
And Merckx doesn't race only 50 days.

Pog is not comparing himself with Merckx. Fans on message boards are doing that.
He's doing the races he wants, when he wants to do them, and he's listening to his body. If he's tired, he rests.
Smart decision, I think.

 

[Cycling111]

Canadian classics are a terrible option before Rwanda. Jet lag and hours of travelling.

I think the same.

They've given him the schedule Ayuso was going to do before the WC.

The team thinks Pogacar needs rest and they're sending him to Canada?
The feeling is that they've swapped that part of the schedule with Ayuso and haven't even tried to discuss with Pogacar what was best. As soon as Pogacar told them he was tired, they saw an opportunity to solve the problems with Ayuso.

I hope Ayuso leaves the UAE and they're made a fool of themselves after making so many concessions to him to get him to leave them.

 

[rafa92]

A rider who dominates Giro-Tour (a harder double) is also able to dominate Tour-Vuelta. I really think he doesn't care about the Vuelta.

he does care, maybe he prefers giro but still he cares about vuelta. He can easily do tour vuelta double, but he would have to skip flanders and roubaix, and only focus on stage racing in the first part of the year and maybe do MSR and Liege (no fleche and no AGR like in 24)

 

[carolina]

I think he wanted to do the Vuelta, but the lack of a proper team in the Tour made him spend way more energy then expected.