Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Charlyghoul]

I think you have to ask was there a guy who could crush Merckx in top form in the mountains? Yes there was, Luis Ocana. And is there a guy who can crush Pogacar in top form in the mountains. No there isn't (at least for now, and unlikely if he remains so till 2030).

So what about Vingegaard?
True Merckx was put in trouble by Ocana , but he already had his long term injury, and was he in ‘top form’ the day Ocana put that time in to him? Who knows.
True also that Pog may have been a little young to say he’s truly prime when Vingegaard beat him , but he’d already won the last two tours and beat prime Roglic.
History says that Pog cracked and lost to Vingegaard twice, Merckx was put in trouble, fought back and fortune favoured him and he won the only tour where he struggled somewhat.

 

[Charlyghoul]

At the moment Pog is more Hinault level than Merckx, look at the big races, 10gt’s + 5 monuments v 5 gt’s + 9 monuments, both have a worlds and many smaller races.
A harder time to dominate all races now than in Hinaults time? Maybe. Remember Hinault was up against guys like Moser, Kelly and De Vlaeminck in the classics.

Now look at Merckx 11 gts + 19 monuments + 3 worlds….
I don’t know how anyone can argue Pog is already better than Merckx, it’s just silly, Merckx has better than double the palmares in all of the big 3…
Lombardy is the only one important race where Pogacar has more than Merckx.
The only question is can Pog win say, 9 gts, 15 monuments and another worlds, something like that is the only way he can be compared to Merckx.

 

[Rou]

A bad thing that can happen to Pogacar is if Almeida wins the Vuelta in a month's time and beats a healthy and strong Jonas.
This would decrease the dependancy of UAE to Pogacar and would show them that they can win a GT without him.
It may sound cynical but it is true.
If Ayuso podiums and is strong as well he will be at the TDF 2026 which is also not good for Tadej.
The Vuelta 2025 will be a VERY important race.

 

[hayneplane]

A bad thing that can happen to Pogacar is if Almeida wins the Vuelta in a month's time and beats a healthy and strong Jonas.
This would decrease the dependancy of UAE to Pogacar and would show them that they can win a GT without him.
It may sound cynical but it is true.
If Ayuso podiums and is strong as well he will be at the TDF 2026 which is also not good for Tadej.
The Vuelta 2025 will be a VERY important race.

The flip side to that is a defeat for Jonas at the Vuelta might deter him from doing Tour-Vuelta in the future making it much simpler for Pogacar to do the double.

 

[Rob5091]

So with all this talk of Pogi having it tough and needing to rest, was this not what Mrs Vingegaard was talking about too?

 

[James M]

At the moment Pog is more Hinault level than Merckx

Just lol at comparing modern-day cycling to the old days on same principles. It's night and day, completely incomparable. What he does in modern cycling, in a more specialized era than ever before, compared to when the sport wasn't even considered professional(Merckx era), is laughable to me and lacks both perspective and context imo. Pog clear.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Tadej needs to get his s*** together.

Comments like this are exactly why professional athletes should absolutely ignore keyboard warriors on social media.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Just lol at comparing modern-day cycling to the old days on same principles. It's night and day, completely incomparable. What he does in modern cycling, in a more specialized era than ever before, compared to when the sport wasn't even considered professional(Merckx era), is laughable to me and lacks both perspective and context imo. Pog clear.

No, there is context. I do agree it’s harder to win across the board now than years ago.
This is why I put Pog needs to win less than Merckx to be comparable, but he needs to win more than half of what Merckx did as well, otherwise you run the risk of going too far the other way.

I can say to you , more specialised ? Let’s look at pog era v Hinault then. Pog only has Vingegaard as serious competition at the tour, Remco long way behind.
Hinaults era had Fignon, Van impe, Lemond, Zoetemelk.
In classics Pog has Van der poel and Remco, Hinault there was Kelly, Moser, De Vlaeminck.

Merckx era had Ocana, Gimondi, Zoetemelk, Maertens, Janssen, De Vlaeminck.

Maybe you’re the one that lacks perspective here, more specialised, modern, globalised, ok, but there’s like 3 or 4 guys that basically win everything. This era is no stronger at the top end than Mercks or Hinaults, in fact it could be said it’s weaker in that respect.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Look at who finished third in the last four or five years, it hardly shows this so called modern amazing strength in depth in cycling, Porte, Yates, 36 years old Thomas, Lipowitz. Not bad riders but not better than guys who were finishing on the podium in other eras.
If it wasn’t for Vingegaard everyone would be saying Pogacar has dominated the weakest tdf era ever…

 

[Charlyghoul]

Take away Merckx and Hinault, Zoetemelk is a six or seven time tour winner, yet these guys raced against nobodies…they were amateurs!
much better competition in Hinault or Merckx time, much much better. Poulidor, Gimondi, Zoetemelk, Lemond vs Vingegaard and Remco.
Pogacar is great but to say this era is so much stronger because of ‘modern cycling is so much better’ is a nonsense.

 

[snipeheem]

Take away Merckx and Hinault, Zoetemelk is a six or seven time tour winner, yet these guys raced against nobodies…they were amateurs!
much better competition in Hinault or Merckx time, much much better. Poulidor, Gimondi, Zoetemelk, Lemond vs Vingegaard and Remco.
Pogacar is great but to say this era is so much stronger because of ‘modern cycling is so much better’ is a nonsense.

Vingegaard is smoking anybody expect Pog. He is a monster

 

[Charlyghoul]

Vingegaard is smoking anybody expect Pog. He is a monster

That’s my point, with Vingegaard, I think Pogs dominance with respect to his era is overblown somewhat. Without Vingegaard there’s nobody that can challenge at all. Vingegaard is also a specialist that only concentrates on the tour.
Other eras had guys who consistently finished 2nd or 3rd , Zoetemelk finished second what, 6 times ? Was a winner too and a world champ, He was a monster too but it doesn’t seem to be recognised by some…

 

[Charlyghoul]

I like Pog a lot his racing tactics and willingness to go for everything are a breath of fresh air.
The problem I have is this talk of the modern era being so much more specialised.
Let’s look at that, there’s one guy who races solely for the tour, Vingegaard. Nobody else in the last several years has been consistent at all at the tour.

I think that’s pretty poor for a so called era of specialism. In past eras you had guys who could do it all, there’s only Pog and to a lesser extent Remco that can do that now, and Remco is wildly inconsistent, especially at the tour

 

[Peyroteo94]

Look at who finished third in the last four or five years, it hardly shows this so called modern amazing strength in depth in cycling, Porte, Yates, 36 years old Thomas, Lipowitz. Not bad riders but not better than guys who were finishing on the podium in other eras.
If it wasn’t for Vingegaard everyone would be saying Pogacar has dominated the weakest tdf era ever…

People often say things like that. They said the same about Froome

 

[Peyroteo94]

I like Pog a lot his racing tactics and willingness to go for everything are a breath of fresh air.
The problem I have is this talk of the modern era being so much more specialised.
Let’s look at that, there’s one guy who races solely for the tour, Vingegaard. Nobody else in the last several years has been consistent at all at the tour.

I think that’s pretty poor for a so called era of specialism. In past eras you had guys who could do it all, there’s only Pog and to a lesser extent Remco that can do that now, and Remco is wildly inconsistent, especially at the tour

Roglic is probably the best GT rider ever to never win the Tour. He is not weak competition.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Roglic is probably the best GT rider ever to never win the Tour. He is not weak competition.

He’s been well past his best for a while though

 

[Charlyghoul]

People often say things like that. They said the same about Froome

Even Froome had riders who were consistent, Bardet, Quintana, Valverde. Apart from Vingegaard nobody has been consistent at all in the last five years, except for an old Roglic who hasn’t been near the podium for years now

 

[Peyroteo94]

Even Froome had riders who were consistent, Bardet, Quintana, Valverde. Apart from Vingegaard nobody has been consistent at all in the last five years, except for an old Roglic who hasn’t been near the podium for years now

Don't tell me Bardet, Valverde or Quintana would be a threat to Teddy.

 

[Peyroteo94]

His team for Rwanda will be weak as hell. I think he needs to attack with Remco and drop him later.
Nice to see him in France for the EC RR. I expect a 75 km solo there.

 

[hayneplane]

His team for Rwanda will be weak as hell. I think he needs to attack with Remco and drop him later.
Nice to see him in France for the EC RR. I expect a 75 km solo there.

It should make it a lot more fun if he has to get creative and adjust the strategies on the fly.

If he had even a UAE B/C team it would be guaranteed slaughter but this at least offers a glimmer of hope for the others.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Pogi needs at least another tour + another grand tour or two and quite a few monuments to be the goat, he’s more than capable , why this fatigued talk ? Come on champ you’re better than this champ

You aren't living in his body. He's just had the most insane 18 months in cycling history, by a mile. No disrespect, but to question his level of fatigue, you must have zero understanding of how a human body works. Seriously, stick to the playstation.

 

[MariaB]

Pogi is only 26 years old — far too young to be talking about retirement.

As for fatigue, there are people who work hard for 30 years or more, so even as a fan, I can’t say I’m pleased with this kind of discussion.

 

[tobydawq]

Don't tell me Bardet, Valverde or Quintana would be a threat to Teddy.

Valverde is one of three people who have beaten him on GC in a Grand Tour.

 

[Cookster15]

Even Froome had riders who were consistent, Bardet, Quintana, Valverde. Apart from Vingegaard nobody has been consistent at all in the last five years, except for an old Roglic who hasn’t been near the podium for years now

Sometimes that is just how it is. In 1985 and 1986 Lemond and Hinault were head and shoulders above anyone else. Between 1991 and 1995 Indurain dominated, daylight second best.

Froome was not close to Pogacar and Vingegaard's level. So of course there were more riders in the conversation such as Quintana, Valverde (who won just a single grand tour and there was some luck involved in that). And Froome never won big classics or monuments.

Roglic came to he sport later via ski jumping but agree there can be some question marks on his longevity now.

I don't think you can compare what Pogacar has done and is still doing against any of those mentioned - and across both grand tours and one day races. Only Vingegaard is serious competition but he is really a stage racer who doesn't target one day races. Hopefully we see Vingegaard target a Giro or Vuelta. He was amazing in the 2023 Vuelta.

As for fatigue talk, that might be honestly how Pogacar feels but it doesn't seem to slow him. In 2024 he said he was dead after the Tour yet look what he continued to do - win more big races including the words and Lombardy in dominant fashion with long range solos.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Pogi is only 26 years old — far too young to be talking about retirement.

As for fatigue, there are people who work hard for 30 years or more, so even as a fan, I can’t say I’m pleased with this kind of discussion.

I've worked hard for nearly 30 years. I'm OK though, I don't have Jonas or MvdP trying to rip my legs off every week, pushing nearly 7 w/kg for 20mins. Again, try living in his body right now and stick to the playstation.