Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[James M]

Pogacar does have "retiring early just to come back, still being really good but no longer quite the force he used to be" written all over him. It's a narrative in sports that repeats itself over and over again. Athletes who retire at the peak of their abilities because they are burnt out and not because of physical decline seem to fall into that trap extremely frequently

Hes preparing to pull a Jordan like I said, just mandatory goat stuff he has to go through.

 

[James M]

On a real note I've seen several people cite that Boonen said something similar in 05 WC win, yet he retired in 17. And hes far from the only one. So yeah, it's all speculation, and my guess is as good as anyone elses. But these things are not to be taken face value by athletes, he himself dont know what he feel and think in 4-5 years when the clock is actually ticking. Its all extremly vague and all guesswork

If I had to guess I do think Pogacar cares about records and accolades. I dont believe he'll retire until hes no longer good enough to win and thats when he will leave. That’s what it comes down to for me. I feel like that's what he means here, he simply doesnt know how long he’ll stay at the top, especially since he started there early. He doesnt expect to be dominant forever and counting the years, and statistically, hes right. But if he’s still crushing it at the end of his contract, I dont see him walking away. Thats just my take, though. This is all guesswork and even for Pog it is, he might feel something entirely different in 5 years when the clock is actually ticking, its incredible vague stuff, even for him.

 

[Extinction]

He wasn’t dominating or really winning at all. I can’t prove that beyond the point he left. But he wasn’t a factor in 1 day races and he was being dropped by the GC favorites at the end.

Hinault won the Tour in 78, 79, 80, 81, 85 (second in 86, the year he retired), the hardest Worlds ever, the Giro 3 times, the Vuelta X 2, PR, LBL, the Dauphine several times, the list goes on. In 86 he was still on top of his game, but got dropped with a huge advantage in the Tour by racing stupidly, having had to deal with a rising Lemond, a French situation in conflict and said enough. But he was far from over. Indurain was a Tour specialist, who burnt his motor for a number of reasons and wisely bowed out after 5, but not first having been humiliated by a more motivated one.

 

[scribers]

Hinault won the Tour in 78, 79, 80, 81, 85 (second in 86, the year he retired), the hardest Worlds ever, the Giro 3 times, the Vuelta X 2, PR, LBL, the Dauphine several times, the list goes on. In 86 he was still on top of his game, but got dropped with a huge advantage in the Tour by racing stupidly, having had to deal with a rising Lemond, a French situation in conflict and said enough. But he was far from over. Indurain was a Tour specialist, who burnt his motor for a number of reasons and wisely bowed out after 5, but not first having been humiliated by a more motivated one.

I get he won a lot of things, but he also bowed out not on a high note and we can't actually say he wouldn't have gone on to podium at best. His peak was around 1980 or so just from the list you rattled off.

You know what else he did? Called his retirement 4 years earlier and fulfilled his prophecy mentally with a drop in performance.

 

[scribers]

Hes preparing to pull a Jordan like I said, just mandatory goat stuff he has to go through.

Jordan had a terrible time overcoming the Celtics/Lakers and then Detroit. He was at absolute peak physicality when he was straight out of college. It was utterly alien what he was doing. He slowed down a bit because they figured out Jordan needed a team. He 'retired' when he dad was killed, which had nothing to do with his fame, just random. That was tough on him mentally in just about the only way he could be beaten mentally. Yet he comes back and wins 3 more times.

 

[Oldman]

I don’t want to hear this fatigue from Pogi, if he wants to be the goat, better be quiet and put in a real solid 3-4 years, then talk about retirement. This kind of talk doesn’t do well to elevate him above the Merckx and Hinaults. Come on Pogi let’s go champ

Different world now with social media nits constantly all up in yer sh*t, n' stuff. Someone critiques Le Blarieau and they'd get a punch in the face.

 

[Extinction]

I get he won a lot of things, but he also bowed out not on a high note and we can't actually say he wouldn't have gone on to podium at best. His peak was around 1980 or so just from the list you rattled off.

You know what else he did? Called his retirement 4 years earlier and fulfilled his prophecy mentally with a drop in performance.

I wouldn't call the 86 Tour a "drop in performance," unless only for not winning it. Yet had he raced differently Hinault could have won that edition, so performance wise he was still fine. Indeed Lemond said Hinault was the strongest he had ever seen him that year. So I don't think a "drop in performance" was the issue, but the motivation to strive to want to dominate as he had in the years you mentioned. His knee problems certainly contributed, but there the situation was technical, riding as he did gears thought necessary in that cycling regime for big power, which put too much stress over time on the connective tissue. Today he wouldn't have had such a problem. The more important consideration I think was that the new crop of talent had by then decidedly arrived and mentally, not physically (because at 32 we know a cyclist under normal circumstances isn't physiologically over the hill), he thought it was time to call it a day. His time had simply come. Had he known Lemond was about to get shot perhaps wouldn't have changed things, because he must have sensed cycling was on the verge of a new age that took off a few years later and so retirement was probably for the best anyway. However physically, with the right motivation, Hinault could arguably have won or at least podiumed another Tour or two, or classic or Worlds.

With Big Mig I think it was a very different story. I believe Indurain was more cooked physically than Hinault at the time of his retirement, because the Spaniard's engine by then was truly in decline. Indeed Miguel knew this by the time he won his fourth Tour, saying he couldn't get any better, but just maintain his top shape, which he did for another year and then it was over. The probable circumstances behind this, which I don't think are comparable to Hinault, can't be discussed here, only that cycling had changed. Whereas Hinault had a career entirely within a certain era, Indurain's spanned two as explained by all the historical documentation and this brought on a sudden physical expiration date.

As for Pogi I think he's just making mischief. He's playing with everyone, journos and competitors alike, because he knows he can keep this up while under contract with UAE, which is till 2030. He's on top of the mountain, bar injury, till then, but his time as king will now each year come closer to the end. Some consolation for those hoping to see light at the end of the tunnel. It's so ironic him talking about retirement under such circumstances, given, that is, the reality of 5 more years at UAE (which must expect continued returns on their investment till then), as to almost be cruel when you think about it.

 

[Shortcut]

I can see that people really took Pogačar’s statement about retirement very seriously, even though it’s nowhere near as dramatic as it’s now being portrayed. I still think Tadej made an excellent move with that remark, because now everyone is suddenly saying it doesn’t make sense, that he shouldn’t retire until he’s won this or that. Even those who were the loudest about cycling being boring because of him have pulled back and realized that it wouldn’t be the same if he actually retired at his peak.
Even that last part of the Tour wasn’t anything terrible, and I actually think he “gave away” only one win, and that he genuinely couldn’t win the others. Because that one (stage 14 against Arensman-but also Arensman was still crazy strong) was quite obviously gifted, everyone started repeating the same thing about all the other stages. The fact that he was injured, sick, and maybe even peaked too early (considering he was already brilliant at the Dauphiné) is being ignored, as if it’s impossible for him.
In my opinion, he knows his limits extremely well — even better than Vingegaard and the others. He won the Tour, four stages, and the polka-dot jersey, but even that now seems not to be enough. I think Tadej is a total cycling fanatic and will keep going as long as it takes to “clean out” every race. Maybe in the end he won’t go to the Tour anymore, but if he wins it six times, he’ll have done his job there. I also hope that happens and that he can do it as soon as possible, and then later fully focus on all the races he hasn’t yet won.

 

[Gigs_98]

Hes preparing to pull a Jordan like I said, just mandatory goat stuff he has to go through.

But is Pogacar steering towards Jordan's 1993 or his 1998 premature retirement?

 

[Cycling111]

Usrka is participating in the women's Tour de Romandie, Pogacar will start training for the WC. Also the Time Trial?

 

[Black Betsy]

Pogacar does have "retiring early just to come back, still being really good but no longer quite the force he used to be" written all over him. It's a narrative in sports that repeats itself over and over again. Athletes who retire at the peak of their abilities because they are burnt out and not because of physical decline seem to fall into that trap extremely frequently

I would think this the moment he starts mocking Carlos Sastre.

 

[Rou]

I have some interesting thoughts that may very well be true.
In April before Roubaix Tadej and Dracula might have spoken and agreed about something like this:
1) UAE agrees for Pogacar to do Roubaix
2) Pogacar agrees to do La Vuelta
In July during the Tour Gianetti was talking with a HIGH degree of certainty that Tadej is going to the Vuelta. He was expecting that to happen.
In the meantime it's possible that Pogacar had other plans (resting and preparing for World's as a priority).
Tadej starts talking about fatigue, retirement, etc. It's possible he is using the 'retirement talk' to SCARE UAE and force them to accept everything he does so that he remains 'happy'.
If I'm correct and Pogacar believes he can 'twist the arms' of UAE's management with talks of retirement and depression then he is DEEPLY WRONG.
Pog has a contract until 2030. He is locked in UAE and can't scare anyone.
UAE HAS THE CARDS.

 

[Panda Claws]

UAE will accede to every reasonable demand Pogacar will make.

 

[scribers]

I can see that people really took Pogačar’s statement about retirement very seriously, even though it’s nowhere near as dramatic as it’s now being portrayed. I still think Tadej made an excellent move with that remark, because now everyone is suddenly saying it doesn’t make sense, that he shouldn’t retire until he’s won this or that. Even those who were the loudest about cycling being boring because of him have pulled back and realized that it wouldn’t be the same if he actually retired at his peak.
Even that last part of the Tour wasn’t anything terrible, and I actually think he “gave away” only one win, and that he genuinely couldn’t win the others. Because that one (stage 14 against Arensman-but also Arensman was still crazy strong) was quite obviously gifted, everyone started repeating the same thing about all the other stages. The fact that he was injured, sick, and maybe even peaked too early (considering he was already brilliant at the Dauphiné) is being ignored, as if it’s impossible for him.
In my opinion, he knows his limits extremely well — even better than Vingegaard and the others. He won the Tour, four stages, and the polka-dot jersey, but even that now seems not to be enough. I think Tadej is a total cycling fanatic and will keep going as long as it takes to “clean out” every race. Maybe in the end he won’t go to the Tour anymore, but if he wins it six times, he’ll have done his job there. I also hope that happens and that he can do it as soon as possible, and then later fully focus on all the races he hasn’t yet won.

He’s not that calculated. He’s sitting in the press pool and talking to them as though he’s with his therapist. A publicists nightmare

 

[Lequack]

The reception at his hometown criterium race

https://twitter.com/x/status/1954543314402746646

View: https://x.com/tekac74/status/1954543314402746646

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'm a little bit sad about his interviews. He is seriously thinking about retirement. He won't last too long. A shame since he is the best rider I ever witnessed.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sean Kelly says what most people think. Merckx is the GOAT but it's not hard to understand Pogacar is better and more talented.

Sean Kelly | 'Pogačar has more talent than Merckx but won't equal him'

Sean Kelly says Tadej Pogačar is a bigger talent that Eddy Merckx but he believes the Slovenian's career will be much shorter than people think

www.stickybottle.com

 

[Shortcut]

Sean Kelly says what most people think. Merckx is the GOAT but it's not hard to understand Pogacar is better and more talented.

Sean Kelly | 'Pogačar has more talent than Merckx but won't equal him'

Sean Kelly says Tadej Pogačar is a bigger talent that Eddy Merckx but he believes the Slovenian's career will be much shorter than people think

www.stickybottle.com

If he wins two more TdFs, one Vuelta,two more WCs, 3 RVV, 3 LBL and 3 more Lombardias, is he then GOAT? Having most wins at TdF, RVV, LBL and Lombardia should be enough.

 

[Extinction]

Sean Kelly says what most people think. Merckx is the GOAT but it's not hard to understand Pogacar is better and more talented.

Sean Kelly | 'Pogačar has more talent than Merckx but won't equal him'

Sean Kelly says Tadej Pogačar is a bigger talent that Eddy Merckx but he believes the Slovenian's career will be much shorter than people think

www.stickybottle.com

I think you have to ask was there a guy who could crush Merckx in top form in the mountains? Yes there was, Luis Ocana. And is there a guy who can crush Pogacar in top form in the mountains. No their isn't (at least for now, and unlikely if he remains so till 2030).

 

[Peyroteo94]

If he wins two more TdFs, one Vuelta,two more WCs, 3 RVV, 3 LBL and 3 more Lombardias, is he then GOAT? Having most wins at TdF, RVV, LBL and Lombardia should be enough.

I think he will be if he wins MSR, PR and Vuelta.

 

[Charlyghoul]

W

Sean Kelly says what most people think. Merckx is the GOAT but it's not hard to understand Pogacar is better and more talented.

Sean Kelly | 'Pogačar has more talent than Merckx but won't equal him'

Sean Kelly says Tadej Pogačar is a bigger talent that Eddy Merckx but he believes the Slovenian's career will be much shorter than people think

www.stickybottle.com

Is he really more talented though ? He was beaten by Vingegaard x2 at the tour and still has a lot of things he hasn’t won to compare to Merckx.
Merckx was only ever put in trouble in his prime at the tour by Ocana and rode like the devil to put the pressure on Luis, somewhat fortunate that he crashed out but Merckx never cracked like Pog did.
Merckx also rode most of his career with an injury that made him uncomfortable on the bike, imagine if he didn’t have that injury and see what he still accomplished.
I think at this point Merckx is still the best/goat/most talented by some margin.

 

[Lorzenz08]

I'm a little bit sad about his interviews. He is seriously thinking about retirement. He won't last too long. A shame since he is the best rider I ever witnessed.

I mean if he retires in 2028 would have had an 9 year career at the top.

This is already a longer career than most top cyclists. Who win big 4-6 years most of the time.

 

[Cycling111]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1954288727334777062

View: https://x.com/friebos/status/1954288727334777062?t=6YWLuJbITCqFp0fsKPvnPg&s=19

 

[Charlyghoul]

I think you have to ask was there a guy who could crush Merckx in top form in the mountains? Yes there was, Luis Ocana. And is there a guy who can crush Pogacar in top form in the mountains. No there isn't (at least for now, and unlikely if he remains so till 2030).

So what about Vingegaard?
True Merckx was put in trouble by Ocana , but he already had his long term injury, and was he in ‘top form’ the day Ocana put that time in to him? Who knows.
True also that Pog may have been a little young to say he’s truly prime when Vingegaard beat him , but he’d already won the last two tours and beat prime Roglic.
History says that Pog cracked and lost to Vingegaard twice, Merckx was put in trouble, fought back and fortune favoured him and he won the only tour where he struggled somewhat.

 

[Charlyghoul]

At the moment Pog is more Hinault level than Merckx, look at the big races, 10gt’s + 5 monuments v 5 gt’s + 9 monuments, both have a worlds and many smaller races.
A harder time to dominate all races now than in Hinaults time? Maybe. Remember Hinault was up against guys like Moser, Kelly and De Vlaeminck in the classics.

Now look at Merckx 11 gts + 19 monuments + 3 worlds….
I don’t know how anyone can argue Pog is already better than Merckx, it’s just silly, Merckx has better than double the palmares in all of the big 3…
Lombardy is the only one important race where Pogacar has more than Merckx.
The only question is can Pog win say, 9 gts, 15 monuments and another worlds, something like that is the only way he can be compared to Merckx.