Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

7 w/kg is childs play for Pog at 20 minutes. Armstrong's did 7 w/kg on Madone from 99-05 ahead of the TdF which is 30 min. I wonder how fast peak Pog could rip Madone

 

[Valv.Piti]

Which grand tour and year was that ?

2019. The only challenger to Roglic

And you might say there was luck involved, but there sure have been lots of GT's where Valverde has gotten incredibly unlcuky as well. Valverde was still the best in 09.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Valverde is one of three people who have beaten him on GC in a Grand Tour.

I hope you are joking eheheheh

 

[tobydawq]

I hope you are joking eheheheh

Huh?

That's an irrefutable fact.

 

[Cookster15]

2019. The only challenger to Roglic

And you might say there was luck involved, but there sure have been lots of GT's where Valverde has gotten incredibly unlcuky as well. Valverde was still the best in 09.

Thanks. Pogacar hadn't even turned 21 by the 2019 Vuelta and was still largely unknown. He first announced himself at the Tour of California that year.

Also agree Valverde was the strongest in the 2009 Vuelta but only just. Cadel was strong trying to get a consolation for failing at the Tour.

 

[tobydawq]

2019. The only challenger to Roglic

And you might say there was luck involved, but there sure have been lots of GT's where Valverde has gotten incredibly unlcuky as well. Valverde was still the best in 09.

We both know he would have won the 2017 Tour.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

The same Jonas last year was two weeks in emergency care and went all out for the Tour.
The same Jonas has a wife with two small kids.
He is older than Pogacar and doesn't talk about retirement like Tadej.
No excuses.

If I'd won 4 TdFs, a Giro, a Worlds and all those Classics, and earnt a fortune, I'm not risking my life on 90 km/h descents any more, I'm retiring tomorrow. Like you'd do any different.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The same Jonas last year was two weeks in emergency care and went all out for the Tour.
The same Jonas has a wife with two small kids.
He is older than Pogacar and doesn't talk about retirement like Tadej.
No excuses.

In fact his wife told he is close to retirement. I don't see Vingegaard past 2028.

 

[Valv.Piti]

We both know he would have won the 2017 Tour.

Of course, easily. Piss weak Tour. Valverde 2017 is so slept on because it was only half a season. Best version ever of Bala

Ez

 

[Peyroteo94]

Huh?

That's an irrefutable fact.

In what GT, would he win a GT against Pogacar?

 

[Peyroteo94]

2019. The only challenger to Roglic

And you might say there was luck involved, but there sure have been lots of GT's where Valverde has gotten incredibly unlcuky as well. Valverde was still the best in 09.

The route was a joke

 

[tobydawq]

In what GT, would he win a GT against Pogacar?

He finished ahead of him in the 2019 Vuelta. "Route was a joke" is a piss poor argument, the route was fine, and he finished ahead of him, how can you assume I joke when it happened?

Of course I'm not arguing that he'd be smoking 2024 Pogacar.

 

[MariaB]

I've worked hard for nearly 30 years. I'm OK though, I don't have Jonas or MvdP trying to rip my legs off every week, pushing nearly 7 w/kg for 20mins. Again, try living in his body right now and stick to the playstation.

You don’t need to dismiss or insult others’ opinions to make your own point.

We have to agree to disagree.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The route was a joke

Pretty normal route. Ofc prime Valverde wouldn't stand a chance against prime Pogacar, but nobody in the entire history of the sport would stand a chance. But what we are arguing here was that Valverde was much more than just a lucky GT winner that never got close again as we have seen many other past winners have done. In fact he should have won more than just one Vuelta if we are being completely honest.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He finished ahead of him in the 2019 Vuelta. "Route was a joke" is a piss poor argument, the route was fine, and he finished ahead of him, how can you assume I joke when it happened?

Of course I'm not arguing that he'd be smoking 2024 Pogacar.

I was talking about Vuelta 2009

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pretty normal route. Ofc prime Valverde wouldn't stand a chance against prime Pogacar, but nobody in the entire history of the sport would stand a chance. But what we are arguing here was that Valverde was much more than just a lucky GT winner that never got close again as we have seen many other past winners have done. In fact he should have won more than just one Vuelta if we are being completely honest.

What edition was he close to win?

 

[Izzyeviel]

I don't have Jonas or MvdP trying to rip my legs off every week,

Probably explains why Pogacar rides so fast.

 

[Berniece]

What edition was he close to win?

2006

 

[Charlyghoul]

If I'd won 4 TdFs, a Giro, a Worlds and all those Classics, and earnt a fortune, I'm not risking my life on 90 km/h descents any more, I'm retiring tomorrow. Like you'd do any different.

Then no one shall remember your name, and you will be forgotten about as a footnote to the great Merckx

 

[Charlyghoul]

Sometimes that is just how it is. In 1985 and 1986 Lemond and Hinault were head and shoulders above anyone else. Between 1991 and 1995 Indurain dominated, daylight second best.

Froome was not close to Pogacar and Vingegaard's level. So of course there were more riders in the conversation such as Quintana, Valverde (who won just a single grand tour and there was some luck involved in that). And Froome never won big classics or monuments.

Roglic came to he sport later via ski jumping but agree there can be some question marks on his longevity now.

I don't think you can compare what Pogacar has done and is still doing against any of those mentioned - and across both grand tours and one day races. Only Vingegaard is serious competition but he is really a stage racer who doesn't target one day races. Hopefully we see Vingegaard target a Giro or Vuelta. He was amazing in the 2023 Vuelta.

As for fatigue talk, that might be honestly how Pogacar feels but it doesn't seem to slow him. In 2024 he said he was dead after the Tour yet look what he continued to do - win more big races including the words and Lombardy in dominant fashion with long range solos.

Vingegaard never won classics or monuments either , he is literally the only threat to Pog, imagine without Vingegaard how thins would be , very poor indeed, it’s indeed a great thing that Ving is there for Pogs legacy, without him Pog won’t be in such high esteem

 

[Charlyghoul]

You aren't living in his body. He's just had the most insane 18 months in cycling history, by a mile. No disrespect, but to question his level of fatigue, you must have zero understanding of how a human body works. Seriously, stick to the playstation.

PlayStation ? Tour of the wolds ?
Listen I win my club hill climb in 2008 on the wolds , what have you done that’s better ?
Fatigue ? Pah, Pogi is in the top 3-5 of all time sure, but fatigue at 26? Doesn’t deserve to adjust Merckx’s saddle due to his debilitating injury for almost of his career, Pogi can’t even win half of his palmares before talking about retirement.
Sure, three quarters of Merckx results in this sacred modern age can be enough to put him with him, but will he do it ? Well he has to, has to win a lot more, or no goat status for pogi.
Stick to your sega mega drive , and respect the history of cycling ‘king’

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Then no one shall remember your name, and you will be forgotten about as a footnote to the great Merckx

4 time TdF champs are remembered by everyone. How you view his legacy won't make him any happier when he gets up in the morning, after he's retired though, do you realise that? He does, do you?

PlayStation ? Tour of the wolds ?
Listen I win my club hill climb in 2008 on the wolds , what have you done that’s better ?
Fatigue ? Pah, Pogi is in the top 3-5 of all time sure, but fatigue at 26? Doesn’t deserve to adjust Merckx’s saddle due to his debilitating injury for almost of his career, Pogi can’t even win half of his palmares before talking about retirement.
Sure, three quarters of Merckx results in this sacred modern age can be enough to put him with him, but will he do it ? Well he has to, has to win a lot more, or no goat status for pogi.
Stick to your sega mega drive , and respect the history of cycling ‘king’

Congrats on your club hill climb 👍

 

[Charlyghoul]

4 time TdF champs are remembered by everyone. How you view his legacy won't make him any happier when he gets up in the morning, after he's retired though, do you realise that? He does, do you?

Congrats on your club hill climb 👍

Thank you, was a great victory.
Seriously though, I like pogi, but even in this day, he hasn’t yet won half of what Merckx did, do you not think is a bit disrespectful to Merckx to call Pog the greatest ever?
You can account for the difference in eras by lowering the bar somewhat, but even then he hasn’t won nearly enough to be compared to Merckx , how people cannot see this is beyond me.
Maybe Pogacar as a pure climber is better, but then Merckx you would have to say on results is a much better one day racer, and one day races is supposedly pogs passion?
Please have a more balanced view, Merckx is goat for a reason and rightfully it needs a huge palmares from Pogi to be above him

 

[Charlyghoul]

Let us forget Pog for a moment and say, , 6 or 7 years ago, a brilliant young rider is going to come on the scene , a rider a bit like Merckx who can win everything.
Taking in to account the modern era, etc, he wins just under half of what Eddy did, would you say he he’s now the goat ? No you wouldn’t.
Now if he won around 3/4 of what Merckx did? In the modern era ? Then maybe you can say he’s on that level.
Pog can still get there, but he has some way to go, that’s all I’m saying. You aren’t true cycling fan if you can give him the goat status right now.

 

[hayneplane]

Sometimes that is just how it is. In 1985 and 1986 Lemond and Hinault were head and shoulders above anyone else. Between 1991 and 1995 Indurain dominated, daylight second best.

Froome was not close to Pogacar and Vingegaard's level. So of course there were more riders in the conversation such as Quintana, Valverde (who won just a single grand tour and there was some luck involved in that). And Froome never won big classics or monuments.

Roglic came to he sport later via ski jumping but agree there can be some question marks on his longevity now.

I don't think you can compare what Pogacar has done and is still doing against any of those mentioned - and across both grand tours and one day races. Only Vingegaard is serious competition but he is really a stage racer who doesn't target one day races. Hopefully we see Vingegaard target a Giro or Vuelta. He was amazing in the 2023 Vuelta.

As for fatigue talk, that might be honestly how Pogacar feels but it doesn't seem to slow him. In 2024 he said he was dead after the Tour yet look what he continued to do - win more big races including the words and Lombardy in dominant fashion with long range solos.

Agreed. He is objectively so supreme (W/KG, VAM, obliterating legendary EPO era KOMs) that he will make the rest look in an entirely different league apart from Jonas who is also upper tier across history.

Tours like 2008 are very much the exception as it is very rare for there to be a big battle beyond head to head with the two best riders and even then there is usually a fairly clear top dog.