Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[scribers]

The saddest thing is that Pogacar certainly has few true fans, despite his greatness. It's paradoxical that Jonas or Remco always have a hard core that supports them, regardless of the results. Instead he's practically alone against everyone: foaming haters and so-called "fans" who constantly complain, even after every victory (because he didn't win more stages, because he only won by 30 seconds, because he waited until the last kilometers, etc.). The latter are even the worst. This is truly sad.

This made me tear up a little bit.

 

[Berniece]

Remco too, but here we were told that FW or Liège didn't matter to him this year becaus os the injury, when in Amstel they said something else.

***, I haven’t read that anywhere, you are blatantly lying. Quote those people and I’ll apologise.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It was humiliating. He was expected to challenge Evenepoel, and got overtaken by him. He started a whole 2min30s ahead, and was dropped on the climb that supposedly suits Pogacar better. It was bad.

Yeah. If they started 1 minute apart it would be a different story. But it was 2.5 minutes and he was overtaken on a steep hill on top of that. It was a humbling experience for Pogacar.

 

[Miha81]

I do remember Cycling111 being worried a few weeks ago that he hadn't been seen out on his TT bike very much.

Yes. Apparently he was also sick during preparation so he skipped TT training and focused on RR. Nevertheless I bet nobody expected this beatdown. Media made even worse with constant mentioning of a possible double.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yes. Apparently he was also sick during preparation so he skipped TT training and focused on RR. Nevertheless I bet nobody expected this beatdown. Media made even worse with constant mentioning of a possible double.

It seems no TT preparation before Canada and a bad day contributed to this unexpected beatdown but it was definitely worse than anybody expected. The RR should be a different story if his preparations were optimized towards it (according to his own words).

 

[KoopaCycling]

Well, odds are this will only fuel the beast. I'm expecting Pogacar to turn up big next couple of races.

 

[Cycling111]

***, I haven’t read that anywhere, you are blatantly lying. Quote those people and I’ll apologise.

Yes. In this forum.

And you contradict even more on more things.

Why aren't you responding to this message?

Pogacar never wins a ITT like this against Evenepoel, when both are perfectly prepared. Evenepoel is just better at this.

Just like Remco has never beaten Pogacar in a stage race, but some insist he can beat him in the Tour .

What's the difference between this and the discussion in Remco´s thread? Saying he can improve and beat Pogacar in the Tour, even though he's never been close to him in a stage race.

 

[Cycling111]

@Berniece That's it. It's also been read here.
How true is the constant insinuations of a clinic when he wins . Today at least you're talking about humiliation, not clinical insinuations. Or that's also a lying? 🙄

When you criticize a forum member in the Remco thread again for saying he can't win the Tour, we'll remember that message where you said Pogcar has never beaten Remco in a ITT. Because Remco has never beaten Pogcar in a stage race either, nor has he even come close to doing so. But when you continue with this insistence and say that saying otherwise is disrespecting Remco, either they'll copy that message or you'll say they're lying.

 

[KoopaCycling]

funny how you feel offended cycling111, when you yourself have shown quite a lot of double standards. I 2 remember. And much after Remco had a hard crash, and a tough comeback. Pogacar will be Pogacar. He'll be the big dog next week again, with remco as a possible adversary. Alongside Del Toro who is looking very strong. Would not be surprised to see Del Toro become WC RR. Jay Vine looked strong as well. But not sure if he'll get the same green light as Del Toro will get.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Of course he wants to win races he targets. But to expect it to be a “walk in the park”? No.

Yes, he is confident enough to expect that.
Dauphiné is a clear example of that. He is so confident that he used the TT to practise a new equipment, position (I don't know what the hell was he doing) and 2 days later he was doing the most WTF performance of the season, without getting out of the saddle. Yes, he knows how better he is most of the time.
When he was interviewed by Attia, his sneaky smile after saying he rides at 320-340 w for hours in pure zone 2. He knows others are below him in w/kg.

 

[Berniece]

Yes. In this forum.

And you contradict even more on more things.

Why aren't you responding to this message?

So first of all, you didn't give me any proof. So again you were blatantly lying.

I didn't respond to your message because it had nothing to do with the thread. The thread was about the WC ITT. About time trialing. That you randomly drag stage racing into a discussion that had nothing to do with it, doesn't mean I need to respond to it. I can also ask you what you think of the latest Tyler the Creator album, but that's just derailing the thread.

 

[Cycling111]

funny how you feel offended cycling111, when you yourself have shown quite a lot of double standards. I 2 remember. And much after Remco had a hard crash, and a tough comeback. Pogacar will be Pogacar. He'll be the big dog next week again, with remco as a possible adversary. Alongside Del Toro who is looking very strong. Would not be surprised to see Del Toro become WC RR. Jay Vine looked strong as well. But not sure if he'll get the same green light as Del Toro will get.

You know what's best thing?
I was one of those who most insisted that Pogacar wouldn't win this time trial.

I'm not the one who contradicts himself the most. I'm not the one who accuses other cyclists of clinical insinuations when they win, an when wins other no.

I'm not the one who peddles false expectations for the time trial.
Even if I like one other cyclist more, I have the objectivity to say he wouldn't win the time trial.

Look at the discussions in other threads, steeped in holding certain ideas without arguments or data to support them. Like the endless discussion about the TDF.

What is being said to the forum members who argue that Remco won the Tour over Pogacar I and Vineggaard is not supported by any objective data. Just as they have no basis in saying that Pogacar would have won the Time Trial, especially without having trained for itt.

 

[Roku]

It was indeed humilliating for Pogi, not only because of being overtaken, but also because of who did it. Could have been worse if it was Vingegaard. Anyways he is still the main favourite for the RR. In fact, this result could help him - Given Evenepoel huge ego, he will be overconfident after this result and Belgium will probably take extra duties to control the race, so that would definetly help Pogacar and his smaller team.

It's obvious he's been burn-out after TdF. UAE management biggest concern now should keep Pogacar motivated and manage his schedule.

 

[KoopaCycling]

You know what's best thing?
I was one of those who most insisted that Pogacar wouldn't win this time trial.

I'm not the one who contradicts himself the most. I'm not the one who accuses other cyclists of clinical insinuations when they win, an when wins other no.

I'm not the one who peddles false expectations for the time trial.
Even if I like one other cyclist more, I have the objectivity to say he wouldn't win the time trial.

Look at the discussions in other threads, steeped in holding certain ideas without arguments or data to support them. Like the endless discussion about the TDF.

What is being said to the forum members who argue that Remco won the Tour over Pogacar I and Vineggaard is not supported by any objective data. Just as they have no basis in saying that Pogacar would have won the Time Trial, especially without having trained for itt.

Nah, you're making it sound like people said that. people said they wanted Remco to close the gap so as to have a chance in the upcoming years. Not actually beat Pogacar this year.

You and others were saying Remco is not even a GT rider cause he got beat by Pogacar & Vingegaard. Don't hide now.

 

[Peter von]

It was indeed humilliating for Pogi, not only because of being overtaken, but also because of who did it. Could have been worse if it was Vingegaard. Anyways he is still the main favourite for the RR. In fact, this result could help him - Given Evenepoel huge ego, he will be overconfident after this result and Belgium will probably take extra duties to control the race, so that would definetly help Pogacar and his smaller team.

It's obvious he's been burn-out after TdF. UAE management biggest concern now should keep Pogacar motivated and manage his schedule.

Remco is surely the least humiliating rider to be lapped by on a itt.
But yeah, I wouldn't count Pogi out of RR in any way shape or form either. We just had this in Dauphine where he lost on the ITT and then rode circles around everyone as soon as they hit the mountains.

yeah. Maybe he just got unlucky and caught two viruses in quick succession, it happens. but maybe it happens because he was pushing it too much and he was incredibly lucky the bill only came due after the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

People calling him lucky for the slightest draft that wouldn't even get him 4th instead of 5th.

I have stiff competition for #1 pro level hater it appears

 

[Pantani_lives]

So is Pogacar still the top favorite for Sunday?

 

[Salvarani]

Only the fans and some media think of this, not Pogacar himself.

Very true.

 

[Salvarani]

The saddest thing is that Pogacar certainly has few true fans, despite his greatness. It's paradoxical that Jonas or Remco always have a hard core that supports them, regardless of the results. Instead he's practically alone against everyone: foaming haters and so-called "fans" who constantly complain, even after every victory (because he didn't win more stages, because he only won by 30 seconds, because he waited until the last kilometers, etc.). The latter are even the worst. This is truly sad.

Not everyone behaves that way, but sure is a couple of those and those are usually the loudest ones. That goes for every rider imo.

 

[Salvarani]

I feel like he's lost a little of that hunger for victory just because he wins so much and wins convincingly.

He has rode three races since the Tour. Cmon. It just been a long season. He wasnt 10 minutes behind and finishing 15th yesterday.

Too premature to come to any conclusion and especially on his mental state. But fatigue can appear both mentally and physically. Pog sure has been going hard and for a few years.

I think classics and hard-fought Tour has just left him in a similar state as in 2023... and that he just may be a bit more vunerable than usual. Stronger teams and riders should feel a little bit more optimistic as of now. Could sure end up being a more tactical race unless someone like Remco is just very strong.

In hindsight, he shouldnt have raced the ITT here but I dont think any of the others from Slovenia were that interested in riding the ITT it seems either. I reckon Roglic would actually love to win the road race himself. It is probably the last chance for him too.

I feel like most knew Remco would be unbeatable, if you ignoredall the noise before the race, and Vine was always a darkhorse on this route. He rode great in Zurich but crashed last year, still finished 5th all bloody. He targeted this race for a long time and had a perfect Vuelta. He was in top form.

And Van Wilder is a good time trialist, especially on a hillier route.

 

[Cycling111]

So is Pogacar still the top favorite for Sunday?

I think so, but less than I thought.

He had a bad ITT in Dauphiné, but he did the best time in ITT climb. Yesterday, he was far from the Vine time in the last climb. That's the most worrying thing about yesterday. And seeing his face at the end, he was exhausted.

But I still give him the favoritism because of his ability in those important races.

In 2023, he was really bad after the Tour. He had some horrible races in Italy. Enric Mas cooked him in Emilia, but he won Lombardia again.
Although it wasn't his best performance in Lombardia, and he had to take advantage of the start of a descent. This circuit is so tough, if he's not recovered, will be even more difficult for him than in that Lombardia. But I still give him the favoritism because of his ability on days like that.

 

[Cycling111]

@Berniece
I see from the likes that you're still around here, but you haven't been able to reply to my message from yesterday ( Pogacar never beating Remco in an ITT, but Remco hasn't beaten Pogacar in a stage race either, and the huge difference in comments about what is being discussed in the thread about Remco options to winning the Tour).

If you don't respond when they expose you, don't expect me to respond to your next accusations telling me liar.

It's very easy to argue by avoiding replying to messages you're not interested in and by responding disrespectfully to others.

 

[Berniece]

@Berniece
I see from the likes that you're still around here, but you haven't been able to reply to my message from yesterday ( Pogacar never beating Remco in an ITT, but Remco hasn't beaten Pogacar in a stage race either, and the huge difference in comments about what is being discussed in the thread about Remco options to winning the Tour).

If you don't respond when they expose you, don't expect me to respond to your next accusations telling me liar.

It's very easy to argue by avoiding replying to messages you're not interested in and by responding disrespectfully to others.

Yes I did....

So first of all, you didn't give me any proof. So again you were blatantly lying.

I didn't respond to your message because it had nothing to do with the thread. The thread was about the WC ITT. About time trialing. That you randomly drag stage racing into a discussion that had nothing to do with it, doesn't mean I need to respond to it. I can also ask you what you think of the latest Tyler the Creator album, but that's just derailing the thread.

 

[CyclistAbi]

For Pogi standards this was a flop, considering elevation meters involved. Still fourth place and i reckon realistic thinking on how RR should suit him better. On what went wrong, who knows, maybe health, maybe environment, maybe daily form. Or maybe he just shredded too much weight and lost the edge in such TT.

 

[rafa92]

I think if we look at the bigger picture some of us might relent on our critics of pogs display on the tt.
First, i think we have to consider that he is coming of a very difficult season with him being in shape starting from February which was magnified even by himself at the tour that he was on a mental burnout. Second, comparing his 2024 season to this season and affirming he was better last season is harsh. We have to consider 2024 was a much linear season in terms of prep & racing. It was all focused on stage races & grand tours which makes the training more smooth & easier for the body to adapt while this year it was different type of prep/gym work/ climb efforts for different types of races which takes its toll on the body at some point. Its like asking vdp to be that good on classics and to expect him to climb among the best on the mountains. Imo he has lost his motivation for the sport due to this year being a tiring one and we could see that when he ignored altitude training for this race despite knowing both TT & RR are raced on altitude in Rwanda. I think he needed a long time off the bike perhaps to completely stop after the tour & comeback next year. My conclusion from todays TT is that he looks like he doesn't have the watts in the legs & whats even more concerning was his way of climbing on all the climbs including the cobbled one in the final & i can't take positives out of it b/c even on his poor dauphine TT he was the fastest on the climb but lost the times on the flats. BUT its still POG u never know what he could do in a week time.

actually his dauphine TT is perfectly in line with this, also there he looked very bad on the climb, overall he lost 50 sec in 17 kms which is perfectly in line with the gap of the WC. What nobody seems to understand is that pogacar tends to underperform and struggle a lot on hilly TTs when he's not in top shape or has not done a long block of TT specific trainings (like he did between the dauphine and tour this year). You can see visually that he fights with the TT bike while climbing. The point, as pogacar himself has said, is that on a TT bike he's not a natural, but on a road bike he is and everything is different. I don't know if you remember what kind of dominance he displayed at the dauphine when on a road bike after an horrible TT. Montreal is a much better indication of the level he will have on sunday, there he looked totally in control while climbing at a very high level. In montreal he had much better numbers than in montreal 2024 (comparing strava files) and we all know what kind of level he had in zurich