Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Krzysztof_O]

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[Peyroteo94]

Not really. In cycling it is not very important.

You are right but it's gaining more and more prestige and I think ORR is considered already a major win.
Major wins:
Monuments, GTs, WCRR, ORR.

 

[Salvarani]

You are right but it's gaining more and more prestige and I think ORR is considered already a major win.
Major wins:
Monuments, GTs, WCRR, ORR.

It is not on the same level though as those.

History matters in that regard.

Olympics for a long time was only for amateurs in cycling.

Prestige in winning it now, but not more than that.

It is not a race you need to win or that matters for palmares, when compared to past legends of the sport.

 

[Shortcut]

He needs Olympic Gold as well. 😁

No he doesn't. "He needs to have most monuments and all of them, most GTs and all of them after that all big one week stage races and most WCs and olimpic gold". And then people would still say he needs to have sime wins at TT to be a GOAT. In really is just about to have all GTs, all monuments and most TdFs. If he get those, that is it for me.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It is not on the same level though as those.

History matters in that regard.

Olympics for a long time was only for amateurs in cycling.

Prestige in winning it now, but not more than that.

It is not a race you need to win or that matters for palmares, when compared to past legends of the sport.

I think that if Pogacar doesn’t win the Olympics in 2028 that is something that will be used against him when the next rider with a palmares like Merckx/Pogacar wins it 40-50-60 years in the future.

 

[Salvarani]

I think that if Pogacar doesn’t win the Olympics in 2028 that is something that will be used against him when the next rider with a palmares like Merckx/Pogacar wins it 40-50-60 years in the future.

Maybe. Who knows, I dont try to predict the future too much.

Here and now, it is not the most important or most prestigious thing within cycling and its history.

Olympics is a big thing in general, but kind of its own separate thing here regarding cycling specifically.

 

[Cookster15]

Pogacar in week 3 of the tour was significantly below his top level (the level he had in the first 2 weeks or in week 3 of tour 2024 or even in lombardia a few days ago). That is just a fact, supported by the numbers he did on long climbs and the gaps with respect to the others. And pogacar himself just confirmed it.

Well, I am glad Pogacar just confirmed it as I didn’t know until I read the story that he was injured.

But I am not sure how people who are not diehard Pogacar fans are supposed to know all the intricate details? I didn’t know he was below par in week 3 and I consider myself someone who likes Pogacar. But maybe that is also because my time is spent more on being a mod than following riders’ fortunes more closely and enjoying discussions about riders and teams in the forum?

 

[Cookster15]

But it's "obvious" Pogacar was a step below the level he showed in the second week

I gotta say it wasn’t obvious to me? I rely on what I read about the race or in the forum. Were people saying he was obviously weaker in week 3 during those stages and before the Tour ended? Maybe they were but I wasn’t following closely enough? Not an offense?

 

[Salvarani]

Well, I am glad Pogacar just confirmed it as I didn’t know until I read the story that he was injured.

But I am not sure how people who are not diehard Pogacar fans are supposed to know all the intricate details? I didn’t know he was below par in week 3 and I consider myself someone who likes Pogacar. But maybe that is also because my time is spent more on being a mod than following riders’ fortunes more closely and enjoying discussions about riders and teams in the forum?

I think you could see he rode more passively and said stuff like "counting down the days" etc. Probably because of injury/sick and how others were riding.

Vinge barely tried anything or just couldnt. It was more so a team effort from Visma to make the days hard. Annoy and intimidate somewhat as well. Usual trash talk going on between rivals. The days wore Vinge out as well though. Maybe he was already thinking about the Vuelta at that point.

Pog didnt need to overextend himself to win stages, especially if managing an injury. He had already won a few stages and had a big enough lead to ride calculated. I dont think he was bad, with more info he just managed and rode within himself in the last week. Smart and great to just finish the job.

Impressive and commendable how he still put on a show in the Paris-stage for us.

 

[Cookster15]

I think you could see he rode more passively and said stuff like "counting down the days" etc. Probably because of injury/sick and how others were riding.

Vinge barely tried anything or just couldnt. It was more so a team effort from Visma to make the days hard. Annoy and intimidate somewhat as well. Usual trash talk going on between rivals. The days wore Vinge out as well though. Maybe he was already thinking about the Vuelta at that point.

Pog didnt need to overextend himself to win stages, especially if managing an injury. He had already won a few stages and had a big enough lead to ride calculated. I dont think he was bad, with more info he just managed and rode within himself in the last week. Smart and great to just finish the job.

Impressive and commendable how he still put on a show in the Paris-stage for us.

Thanks for the background.

 

[Roku]

Funny that Vingegaard claimed something like "when I reached my top level at TdF after Hautacam and the ITT, Pogacar could not drop me anymore".

Now Pogi claims he was under the weather in Ventoux and La Plagne, so all in all it would roughly translate to "A top level Vingegaard could not even put a diminished Pogi into pressure"

 

[scribers]

It was something like pog’s shallowest point = Vingo’s shallowest point at EC

 

[Blanco]

It is not on the same level though as those.

History matters in that regard.

Olympics for a long time was only for amateurs in cycling.

Prestige in winning it now, but not more than that.

It is not a race you need to win or that matters for palmares, when compared to past legends of the sport.

Oh yes it is. I'm sure Remco regard his Olympics win at least equal with Liege (and quite probably higher), and in line with his worlds RR.

 

[scribers]

That’s because that’s all remco has won??

 

[Peyroteo94]

Funny that Vingegaard claimed something like "when I reached my top level at TdF after Hautacam and the ITT, Pogacar could not drop me anymore".

Now Pogi claims he was under the weather in Ventoux and La Plagne, so all in all it would roughly translate to "A top level Vingegaard could not even put a diminished Pogi into pressure"

It was obvious Pogacar dropped his level. I think Vingegaard just blew up on Hautacam. The day after he completely destroyed everyone not named Pogacar so I think Vingegaard maintained a more steady level than Pogacar.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I gotta say it wasn’t obvious to me? I rely on what I read about the race or in the forum. Were people saying he was obviously weaker in week 3 during those stages and before the Tour ended? Maybe they were but I wasn’t following closely enough? Not an offense?

First of all, what is your opinion? Why Pogacar was just a tiny bit better than Vingegaard in week 3, when he was clearly better (by a decent margin) in week 2?

 

[Jan the Man]

Oh yes it is. I'm sure Remco regard his Olympics win at least equal with Liege (and quite probably higher), and in line with his worlds RR.

Each to their own.

I respectfully disagree with putting an Olympic gold up there with the monuments or world road race from a historic perspective of judging palmares) also practically from field size/level of competition) - outside of cycling fans/for very casual sports fans then clearly winning an Olympic gold is probably second only to winning the Tour from the perspective of the publicity it draws.

 

[Salvarani]

Oh yes it is. I'm sure Remco regard his Olympics win at least equal with Liege (and quite probably higher), and in line with his worlds RR.

Im sure he does, but it meaning a lot to him personally is a completely different thing though.

 

[Revelation]

That’s nothing compared to 9 TdF wins!! Only way that happens is if he gets some major assistance from Vingegaard.

Why do you think so? With their ages and form development I don't think Vingo will ever beat him in a GT on merit.

Mou's numbers is basically just the most optimistic scenario with regarding both Pogacar's level and luck in avoiding injuries, in theory it's definitely possible but in reality I'd give it a 1-2% chance. It would be insanely lucky to no lose any of these big races due to crashes/injury etc. Even still 2/4 (I guess he doesn't do it in 2029) Roubaix seems very optimistic.

In a scenario where Pogacar is able to maintain motivation through 2030 despite all the winning and probably the public getting more and more antagonistic towards him, i definitely expect him to remain the dominant rider for that time and maybe only lose a bit of his 24-25 level by 30. Vingo and VDP, time will favour him, Seixas can maybe become a threat towards the end, I expect Remco to make a jump next year and challenge him, but Pogacar is the better sprinter.

All of this relies on him staying as motivated though.

 

[Peyroteo94]

To be honest, I don't know how to rank Olympics. I think it should be considered a major win (and it is) but don't know if it's just behind WC, if it is behind PR/RVV/LBL and above MSR/GdL. I just don't know, but for me PR is even bigger than WC (I'm wrong though).

 

[Berflamand]

To be honest, I don't know how to rank Olympics. I think it should be considered a major win (and it is) but don't know if it's just behind WC, if it is behind PR/RVV/LBL and above MSR/GdL. I just don't know, but for me PR is even bigger than WC (I'm wrong though).

It's pretty easy to rank them:

• Olympics RR comes first because Remco has won it and Pogi hasn't
• LBL comes second because Remco has won it twice
• Worlds RR comes third because Remco has won it
• MSR and PR come joint fourth because Pogi hasn't won it
• RVV comes fifth because Pogi has won it twice
• GdL comes sixth because Pogi has won it five times

All jokes aside, personally I'd definitely rank Olympics as a big win amongst Worlds and the Monuments and I do think I already held that position even before Remco won the Olympics.

For example, Van Avermaet won PR and the Olympics but (at least in Belgium) I think he will be remembered much more for his Olympic title (as 'Gouden Greg').

I also think that if Pogi doesn't manage to win an Olympics title before retirement and he had the option to trade one of his Monument wins (let's say one of his Lombardia wins) for an Olympics title, he wouldn't doubt it for a second.

 

[Shortcut]

It's pretty easy to rank them:

• Olympics RR comes first because Remco has won it and Pogi hasn't
• LBL comes second because Remco has won it twice
• Worlds RR comes third because Remco has won it
• MSR and PR come joint fourth because Pogi hasn't won it
• RVV comes fifth because Pogi has won it twice
• GdL comes sixth because Pogi has won it five times

All jokes aside, personally I'd definitely rank Olympics as a big win amongst Worlds and the Monuments and I do think I already held that position even before Remco won the Olympics.

For example, Van Avermaet won PR and the Olympics but (at least in Belgium) I think he will be remembered much more for his Olympic title (as 'Gouden Greg').

I also think that if Pogi doesn't manage to win an Olympics title before retirement and he had the option to trade one of his Monument wins (let's say one of his Lombardia wins) for an Olympics title, he wouldn't doubt it for a second.

I don't see how can be race, at which you have at best(!!!) 3 chances (if you are in great form those 8 years) to win it -could be concidered that highly. And all of those must suit you-no way. So if LA 2028 will be flat, Pogacar had only one chance in his whole carreer to get that gold and he was 21 then. Of course Remco thinks it is his bigesst win, it is only thing he can say to stay relevant next to Pogacar.

 

[Berflamand]

I don't see how can be race, at which you have at best(!!!) 3 chances (if you are in great form those 8 years) to win it -could be concidered that highly. And all of those must suit you-no way. So if LA 2028 will be flat, Pogacar had only one chance in his whole carreer to get that gold and he was 21 then. Of course Remco thinks it is his bigesst win, it is only thing he can say to stay relevant next to Pogacar.

In my opinion, the limited possibilities to win actually add to the prestige of the event but I understand how others can see it differently.

Also it's not true that Pogacar only had one chance in his career to get the gold when he was 21. It was his own choice to not participate in Paris (or to not prioritize it that year) but it definitely was a chance.

As to the bolded part, now you're just making things up. I'm pretty sure that Remco will still consider it his biggest win even if Pogacar wins the next Olympics. I think that will only change when/if he wins the TdF.

 

[Salvarani]

Olympics is big for the person who wins it.

Olympics is a big thing in general.

Cycling and its history has way more depth though, than this race.

It shouldnt be spoken in the same way as GTs, monuments and WC.

It is just a separate thing. Still a big thing, but a separate thing.

 

[YavorD]

I don't see how can be race, at which you have at best(!!!) 3 chances (if you are in great form those 8 years) to win it -could be concidered that highly. And all of those must suit you-no way. So if LA 2028 will be flat, Pogacar had only one chance in his whole carreer to get that gold and he was 21 then. Of course Remco thinks it is his bigesst win, it is only thing he can say to stay relevant next to Pogacar.

This is one of the reasons probably. If you can't win the race every year, it's value increases.