Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cycling111]

When Ayuso has complained about the team, I've always thought about how he would have looked like Pogacar in the Vuelta 2019 or the Tour 2020. They complain for no reason; they've had all the facilities that Pogacar didn't have in his early days.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Think that is to underestimate Pogacar. It's the same as when in Remco´s thread suggests he can beat him in a Tour with what he's shown in GT. Remco first has to be able to be second best in the Tour, and then think about being first.

In Monuments, Del Toro first has to be close to Remco and then dream of getting close to Pogacar.


You're absolutely right. When I read Mexicans on social media comparing Del Toro to the achievements of his second season (the TDF alone is worth the entire Del Toro season) without putting it into context...

Del Toro this yerar has had the best team in the Giro and the best team in every race he's competed in. Pogacar spent his first years as a professional racing completely alone, racing a Tour de France alone. Even so, in his first GT, he won three mountain stages alone. It's incomparable to Del Toro's situation, and yet he hasn't won anything close to a TDF.

By the way, they're actually comparing Del Toro's season with Pogacar's first, and they're making a mistake because they consider this year his neopro year, while Del Toro's neopro year was last year. Pogacar's was also far superior, with two one-week races, three stages in a GT, and a podium.

I said a big If... This means he is nowhere close to Pogacar's level right now.

 

[Cycling111]

I said a big If... This means he is nowhere close to Pogacar's level right now.

If you think he can be, you're also underestimating him. So you shouldn't think he's a GOAT if you think there's a chance someone else could reach his level soon.

What's the difference between this "big if" and the "if" in Remco´s thread you disagree with? It's the same thing to me.

By the way, I agree that Remco's Tour de France aspirations against Pogacar don't hold up with anything we've seen so far. And at the same time, I consider Remco's level to be far superior to Del Toro's. Remco would have left Carapaz and Yates in the dust with 2024 Tour de France level. And in the classics that Del Toro has won, he's also far superior to Del Toro. We saw it in Lombardy and the World Championships.
Del Toro first has to be close to Remco.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If you think he can be, you're also underestimating him. So you shouldn't think he's a GOAT if you think there's a chance someone else could reach his level soon.

What's the difference between this "big if" and the "if" in Remco´s thread you disagree with? It's the same thing to me.

By the way, I agree that Remco's Tour de France aspirations against Pogacar don't hold up with anything we've seen so far. And at the same time, I consider Remco's level to be far superior to Del Toro's. Remco would have left Carapaz and Yates in the dust with 2024 Tour de France level. And in the classics that Del Toro has won, he's also far superior to Del Toro. We saw it in Lombardy and the World Championships.
Del Toro first has to be close to Remco.

Del Toro is not close to his ceilling, Remco is.
I don't expect him to reach Pogacar's level (only when he starts to regress).
I'm 100% sure Del Toro will be a better climber than Remco so he will probably be a better GT rider. In classics, no. Remco is really on another level and I expect him to be better next year (closer to Pogacar). I still think he is not built to climb, at least compared to his ability to do TTs.

 

[Unchained]

The move had a podcast talking about Del Toro and Pogacar and how can they coexist in the same team. For me it's clear they can't when Del Toro reaches Pogacar's level (a big if).
Del Toro looks to be a future contender in hilly monuments and he will never fight for them in the same of Pogacar. GTs is another story.

If you listened or watched The Move, probably the main point was Tadej Pogacar not Del Toro.. I think Johan said it fairly straight, if Del Toro were to switch teams, Pogacar still exists. Johan also discussed some of the benefits and opportunities that will likely come Del Toro's way by teaming up with Pogacar instead of racing against him. Del Toro is simply untested. Especially his only leadership role was accidental and had he started the Giro as the leader, Juan Ayuso and others dedicated to him, ala Pogacar in every race things might have looked different.
In a few years Del Toro will be a real force, Johan sort of waffling when asked if Del Toro could go blow for blow with Vingegaard in high mountains

 

[Unchained]

Del Toro is not close to his ceilling, Remco is.
I don't expect him to reach Pogacar's level (only when he starts to regress).
I'm 100% sure Del Toro will be a better climber than Remco so he will probably be a better GT rider. In classics, no. Remco is really on another level and I expect him to be better next year (closer to Pogacar). I still think he is not built to climb, at least compared to his ability to do TTs.

Not really possible to predict, can't really say it's anything intentional, nothing that's anyone fault but Del Toro, Remco, Ayuso, Lipowitz, Roglic, Pogacar, Vingegaard have had almost no head to head races to compare them against each other, it's going to come but it hasn't yet. How good or bad Remco and Del Toro look against each other hasn't happened in biggest races.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If you listened or watched The Move, probably the main point was Tadej Pogacar not Del Toro.. I think Johan said it fairly straight, if Del Toro were to switch teams, Pogacar still exists. Johan also discussed some of the benefits and opportunities that will likely come Del Toro's way by teaming up with Pogacar instead of racing against him. Del Toro is simply untested. Especially his only leadership role was accidental and had he started the Giro as the leader, Juan Ayuso and others dedicated to him, ala Pogacar in every race things might have looked different.
In a few years Del Toro will be a real force, Johan sort of waffling when asked if Del Toro could go blow for blow with Vingegaard in high mountains

For 2026, it's impossible for Del Toro to beat Vingegaard in the mountains. Vingegaard is like Remco in hilly classics, the second best GT rider by a huge margin.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not really possible to predict, can't really say it's anything intentional, nothing that's anyone fault but Del Toro, Remco, Ayuso, Lipowitz, Roglic, Pogacar, Vingegaard have had almost no head to head races to compare them against each other, it's going to come but it hasn't yet. How good or bad Remco and Del Toro look against each other hasn't happened in biggest races.

Del Toro is clearly improving significantly year after year. This year was a surprising year, full of doubts, for 2026 Del Toro knows he can do it, he can win a GT. He can be closer in long classics. One year ago, he won 3 races. He was 11 months without winning. This year he won 16 races!

 

[Unchained]

For 2026, it's impossible for Del Toro to beat Vingegaard in the mountains. Vingegaard is like Remco in hilly classics, the second best GT rider by a huge margin.

For sure, anyone can beat anyone, Del Toro had a good run for certain. He will likely be on a fast track to be a leader, which up to now he has not been, instead going to races were Ayuso, Almeida, Pogacar were all designated in leadership spot. Del Toro sure looks up to the task. The real challenge is from UAE management, not the racers, they are all racing great. Even when they are not trying you get gravel outcome.. Winning with Florian, Wellens and Politt putting in great rides. UAE with all kinds of sleeping monsters like Morgado, Christen, Narvaez..all guys with huge upside. I look at Bora and think they have good toolbox.
And Visma could have been 1000-10000% better if they changed management. Dumb and Dumber remake.

 

[Peyroteo94]

For sure, anyone can beat anyone, Del Toro had a good run for certain. He will likely be on a fast track to be a leader, which up to now he has not been, instead going to races were Ayuso, Almeida, Pogacar were all designated in leadership spot. Del Toro sure looks up to the task. The real challenge is from UAE management, not the racers, they are all racing great. Even when they are not trying you get gravel outcome.. Winning with Florian, Wellens and Politt putting in great rides. UAE with all kinds of sleeping monsters like Morgado, Christen, Narvaez..all guys with huge upside. I look at Bora and think they have good toolbox.
And Visma could have been 1000-10000% better if they changed management. Dumb and Dumber remake.

I'm talking about power. Vingegaard is a different beast right now and I don't expect next year to change anything.