Question Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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It's about time we address Pogacars remarkable rise since he joined UAE in 2019.

His first season as a junior wasn't anything special, but we have to remember that he was born later in year (September) which is a disadvantage at that age.
In his second season he definitely proved his talent by winning the Giro della Lunigiana.
However, in the entire season he only won two stages and never put any distance on his competitors.
His time trial abilities were less impressive. A 25th and 68th spot.

His first season as a U23 rider wasn't too great either.
He won a few youth jerseys, but didn't record a single stage win.

His second season was definitely better, but still hit and miss.
He won the Tour de l'Avenir, but didn't record a stage win.
He also finished 7th at the WC road race.
Promising, but not exceptional.

Then he moved to UAE. Its CEO is Mauro Gianetti, possibly the dirtiest rider and sports director in history.
Suddenly he started to win stage races (Algarve, California, and individual mountain stages in the Vuelta against the likes of Valverde and Roglic.
He also became a much better time trialist beating Mohoric and Tratnik in the Slovenian championship.

Give me a break.
Reactions: vanderbob
But lets pop the occasional EPO positive in a cat 2.3 race, a junior event or a masters event.
Haha yes, just like how André Cardoso was supposedly the only doped rider in 2017.

If you bust Pogacar, it's international news and the sport is rotten to the core.

If you bust an unsuspecting small fry, it shows that the anti-doping measures work and that cycling is cleaning up its act.

They're only problem now is those pesky journalists.
Well I am not a fan of Pogacar and I can't agree. He was showing great potential all last season and in 2020.

2019 ToC - 20 years old
2019 Vuelta podium
2020 Slovenian National Time Trial, beating Roglic

I think was under rated before this Tour. Obviously he won't be under rated now.
I am sorry but were you making noise about Pogacar one year ago? If not why not? Bit late to wake up now. He has been riding strong all race. He came 3rd in the Vuelta at 20. Do I think its lines up - well yes I do at least as well as several other recent examples. Sorry if this doesn't work for you. You will need to try a little harder than "LOL"s to convince me. I am an open minded person so you should try. LOLs get zero respect. A poster from yesterday I oft disagreed with was the Hitch. But Hitch genuinely explained his points of view so I respected his line of argument. You haven't.

This is where the clinic really lets itself down. So many know it all's who leave facts logic and reason behind.
I was. Long before this TdF.
September 2019. Last year's Vuelta rang a lot of alarm bells.
Most posts were deleted, but you can see that I pissed off a few people.
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Reactions: Willy_Voet
Wow, that is really interesting! I didn’t think he had a bad day, just thought it wasn’t his best. That speaks a lot to the rides of Dumo and WvA. Thanks for posting that, should add a lot of clarity to the conversation.
Unless riders or teams are going to be completely transparent in sharing riders’ “numbers” I’m not giving a lot of credence to these statements (how many times have we heard this during this year’s Tour?) about numbers that were good or “better than when he did So-and-so race.”
Reactions: TourOfSardinia
"We have a reference point for Van Aert now. It seems like Pogacar beat him by thrice the margin the World ITT champion and pursuit world record holder did"
Oh look, it's the goalposts being shifted again . Last week, the fact that Pogacar could ride the same time as Dumoulin on the flatter section was being presented as strong evidence of it being a literally unbelievable ride.

Well, given Dumoulin's showing at the WC, it doesn't look like strong evidence any more. Turns out that Dumoulin's much fabled WC watts, don't actually translate into a very good performance these days.

And so now the goalposts are being shifted to WVA. Conveniently ignoring the fact that there was a mountain in the Tour TT, changing how the course was ridden. Which is why no-one really used him as an example in the first place.
Look kiddo, I understand that you get very angry because people are questioning your local Lance boy(btw that is the reason of this section if you dont like it dont come) and to be fair everybody must be presumed innocent until the contrary is demonstrated, no matter how Pantani-esque the performance may be, but you have to stop with the charade , you are embarrassing yourself.

Go,read Slavo>;view=fulltext

Yes, you dont like to be grouped with those "serbs/croats/macedonians" yuk!!, the same way the Serbs dont like to be grouped with the Moldovans, but guess what? Tough luck, everybody considers a FRY country as culturally Balkan and "eastern-european" . People will group Ljubljana with Zagreb, Belgrade, Kiev or Lublin not with Madrid, Amsterdam,Milan or London. When people in the "west" were dealing with John Mayor, Mitterrand or Felipe Gonzalez you have to somehow directly or indirectly deal with Milosevic and before him with Tito, it doesnt get more "Balkan " than that.

BTW I dont know what is your desire to be grouped with the "west" or with a fictional mittel-Europa (as if you have more in common with the Hungarians, Austrians and Germans than with the Croats and Serbs) , be proud of who you are , instead of wishing to be in the same group with the Italians and the English.
I am a Slovenian - I have no national pride, only a personal one. I don't care if one wants to think I come from a Soviet state, communist state, east Europe, Balkans. World is global and digital now and it is very easy to transcend the geographical and cultural context and circumstances you were born into - so they don't matter much anymore.

That being said, I do care when facts get butchered and there are a couple of geographical and historical facts we need to get straight here.
  1. Balkans is a geographical term for a peninsula. Slovenia is not on Balkan peninsula. @topt was right here.
  2. Balkans is also a cultural/political construct and Slovenia is a part of it.
  3. Slovenia is historically tied to Austria and Hungary being part of the austro-Hungarian empire. The presence of these ties is very much felt today and we don’t need to be instructed by some internet wiseass that we should feel we have more in common with Serbs than we do with Austrians.
  4. We also have a lot of ties with Italians. Italians have strong minority in Slovenia and vice-versa. In my wife’s school half the kids were Italian, she speaks fluent Italian, just like everyone else in the area. Again, thanks for letting us know that we should feel close to Belgrade, but Slovenians will typically feel more at home in Trieste…
  5. Serbs are great people and Slovenia has a lot in common with them as well, especially language and origin. There are a couple of differences too, religion and alphabet being the most noticeable. These two point to the fact that cultural ties in the past were not as significant as one might expect given the countries are relatively close and share the same language group…
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Give it a rest.

Western Europe doesn't think of Slovenia as Western Europe. It's an Eastern European country, which is probably a hangover from the iron curtain/cold war/communism and so on, not its exact geographic position.
Whatever the reason, you throwing wikipedia links around doesn't change the fact.
“probably”. Jugoslavija (which Slovenija was a part of) was never an iron curtain country. What part of that do you people not understand? I am assuming you are American, cause mostly Americans go around throwing misinformation so freely.
Reactions: topt
All fine and dandy, Italians and Austrians think of you as culturally "Eastern Europeans", nobody will think of you as western Europeans, nowhere. I can call myself a "Hollywood heathrob" but that does not make me one. Slovenians speak a Slave language, have a Slave population have been culturally joined to the ex-yugoslavian countries.Practically nothing from Slovenia (writers, music, movies, tv, journals, books, cultural institutions, food) is known, admired or adopted or admitted as part of the Western European legacy.

Here is wikipedia Italia, including Slovenia as part of the Balkan Peninsula :

Another Italian encyclopedia, same thing

Deutsche Wikipedia

Same thing.

You can curse me, you can call me names you can wish me dead but people all over the world will consider you culturally Balkan and "Eastern European" a lot more closer to your Dušans Ante and Miroslav than to Giovanni, Heiko or John. I am sorry to tell you that.
Oh I'm not cursing you at all- I think you are making a pretty good case for yourself being a *** anyway. No help from me needed.

I am going to report you for calling my language Slave language though. It's Slavic. And it is not Slave population - it's Slavic population. I am pretty sure these were not honest mistakes from your side and they do violate several forum rules...
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Oh I'm not cursing you at all- I think you are making a pretty good case for yourself being a *** anyway. No help from my side needed.

I am going to report you for calling my language Slave language though. It's Slavic. And it is not Slave population - it's Slavic population. I am pretty sure these were not honest mistakes from your side and they do violate several forum rules...
He just can't get over Trieste...
Reactions: bNator
You are not cursing me by cursing me? You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed in Slovenia. I suppose not everybody can be TP.

You are correct that the term is "Slavic", my mistake. If you want to clinch to that mistake to suppress people who tell you inconvenient truths please go ahead.

In any case the word "Slav" comes originally from "Slave" so I wouldnt get my panties too twisted in a bunch by an accidental historical etymology.

You western Europeans are all the same.
I deliberately used a wildcard to let everyone’s imagination do the rest. What did you think I called you?

And don’t be so aggressive just because you received some spanking in geopolitics.... kiddo ;)
I think anyone pointing the finger at Slovenia in particular is being extremely disingenuous & ignoring the real elephant in the room, i.e. the United Arab Emirates, their money, influence & the team UAE once was: Lampre. That and Giannetti himself being a creep (& all the skeletons in his closet which make him equal to Bruyneel in moral terms, or maybe worse).

It's weird to me how anyone could pretend Slovenia is an issue in a Tour rendered ridicule by Bahrain & UAE (with old man Lefevere at DQS also throwing caution to the wind for whatever demented reason he has).
Well, UAE is not particularly good though. And that for years actually. They have just one crazy outlier.

Much better PR than last time.

Pog implies that his ascents (of Romme and Colombiere) were not that fast. Reiterates that other GC favs have crashed hard.

"[Pogacar] suggested that the crashes of touted rivals like Primoz Roglič (Jumbo-Visma) and Geraint Thomas (Ineos Grenadiers) had inflated his early cushion."

"I'm dominating this race but if you look at the times on the climbs you can already see why it's such a gap. After the crashes the first few days, the field is just not the level it's supposed to be. I didn't suffer any crashes, so for me, it's really good."

on publishing his power data:

"To open up the files, I would love to. But then the thing is, everybody sees your files and the other teams can use that against you in the race," Pogačar said.

and what do you know - he won't target another stage win:

"I've already won a stage, so I'm pretty happy with that," he said. "Maybe sometimes you can do a mistake by going for the stage, and burn all the matches from the team. So the first goal is just to defend the yellow."

I.e. has been told to knock it down a notch or twenty.