Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[snipeheem]

Mate he attacked 40k out solo and came 2nd in a photo finish, that isn't a bad day lol.

I know but for him it looks like a bad day

 

[snipeheem]

There was nothing surprising about yesterday, if anything, the gap was smaller than expected considering Pog had a better climbing setup than Vingo.

Again, I don't see anything strange about his 2024-25 level after seeing his "starting" level of 2019-20, while being super young and with maybe the worst physique I can think of a GT rider ever. Have 25-26 old Pog standing next to the 21-year old Pog, and of course you'd say the former will destroy the latter in the mountains, while maintaining a much higher and consistent level over the year.

The other thing, the 2 weaknesses he turned to strengths: endurance over 3 weeks and heat. The first basically fixes itself with improved level, being much stronger you spend less on the limit over the duration and naturally defeat everyone, even if someone is theoretically more suited for GT distance. 2nd, I'd imagine it's possible to alter your training to work on that.

So it's about how he was able to be the best rider in the world as a kid with terrible physique; is is just innate talent and he is the GOAT, or was it somehow given to him sometime between 2015-19?

Man yesterday he was pushing 7,5w/kg on the climb… not surprising? He just crashed 3 days ago, no way in hell he is in peak shape right now and he still giving us greatest performance that this sport has ever seen.Of course Sola help him a lot but come on..

 

[Revelation]

Man yesterday he was pushing 7,5w/kg on the climb… not surprising? He just crashed 3 days ago, no way in hell he is in peak shape right now and he still giving us greatest performance that this sport has ever seen.Of course Sola help him a lot but come on..

Not even close to the best performance, wasn't this slightly better than Combloux, while a TT? And you missed my point, the development from 2020 Pog to this isn't surprising when comparing the 2 versions.

 

[snipeheem]

Not even close to the best performance, wasn't this slightly better than Combloux, while a TT? And you missed my point, the development from 2020 Pog to this isn't surprising when comparing the 2 versions.

It is surprising. No way someone believe that he can become that kind of monster even after winning the tour at 22.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm actually at the stage where I want Pogacar to just go full greed mode, just for comical reasons. Just how bonkers can he go before something actually happens, or even gets questioned.

The most cynical strategy I can think of against Pogacar is to just literally stop racing against him and strangle any entertainment out of the race as hard as I can. Chase the break so they don't win, when Pog attacks you don't follow and defend 2nd place, even if he takes 5 more minutes. Maybe fake being a bit weaker than you are, but make it look as *** as possible

 

[Rotted Melon]

I'm actually at the stage where I want Pogacar to just go full greed mode, just for comical reasons. Just how bonkers can he go before something actually happens, or even gets questioned.

I'm at the point where if he attacked at the base of the Tourmalet today and soloed to the end of the stage, putting 25 minutes into the entire peloton and ate a baby while giving his victory interview, it would be the most normal thing in cycling history.

 

[Red Rick]

Just watch the Hautacam attack, especially the airshot, do we know what the acceleration was? His top speed must have been 50+km/u

https://www.strava.com/activities/15145779721/analysis/13661/13706

Peaked at 47 kph on a short stretch where it flattened out according to Strava.

 

[dr.eve]

Amstel 2025

Oh come on, please give me those type of bad days!

Amstel wasnt a bad day physically for him, it was a bad day tactically. That's the only thing he and UAR can be beat on, they ain't the brightest chaps for sure. If there are any bad days from Pogacar it's usually because they made a bad choice. Not eating, going in full gas without thinking (which 95% of the time works for him of course) or making a steering mistake. Even the crash he had in this Tour in my opinion was part his mistake as well. Everyone was starting the turn already except Pogacar.

 

[SorelyBoy]

If I understand the poster correctly, he's saying he's on "something" that no one else has access to? I'm construing that to mean PED(s)?

If you're talking about a doping doctor/PED specialist that no one else has access to. Okay, sure, but wouldn't that still involve PED(s)? And if so, how long can these substances be kept secret for such a long time? (don't riders talked amongst themselves always trying to determine what the best -and easiest to avoid detection - PEDs are?).

Also, Ferrari had other clients he was working with long before Armstrong hired him (Chiappucci, Bugno, Cipollini, etc).

Again, Armstrong was just a super responder like never seen before. His rivals, who were using the exact same PEDs, never once complained that Armstrong had an unfair advantage with the type of PEDs he was using (in fact, isn't Armstrong & Ullrich the best of friends today?).

Armstrong wasn’t a super responder any more than any other super tuned and talented athlete would be. Or is. Armstrong simply decided to buy the best programme that money could buy, partnering up with Ferrari because he was at the cutting edge. Armstrong went hi tech. Everyone else was doing domestic science. Parallels can absolutely made with what we see happening today.

 

[dr.eve]

I know but for him it looks like a bad day

True.

 

[markene2]

One has to assume astroturfing is in full force on the web when you look at the comments on various sites. No ones really critical, same with journalists. Even in the Sky years people asked questions. Something fishy is going on.

And the most doped times are being smoked left and right, doing wattages thats humanly impossible. Only chance is for a third party to bust the whole thing open, police etc netural party.

Dont really care about the doping, do care about about the ebike part.. obvious there is favoritism and protection from the uci. Same as the Armstrong and Sky years, someones allowed to dominate heavily.

Cat is out of the bag with e bikes and magnetic wheels though. To late to do anything about it now, should have nipped it in the bud with cancellara and Matti breschel in 2010, now its to late and will ruin the sport. Would be my guess why there is no high profile busts.

 

[Red Rick]

One has to assume astroturfing is in full force on the web when you look at the comments on various sites. No ones really critical, same with journalists. Even in the Sky years people asked questions. Something fishy is going on.

And the most doped times are being smoked left and right, doing wattages thats humanly impossible. Only chance is for a third party to bust the whole thing open, police etc netural party.

Dont really care about the doping, do care about about the ebike part.. obvious there is favoritism and protection from the uci. Same as the Armstrong and Sky years, someones allowed to dominate heavily.

Cat is out of the bag with e bikes and magnetic wheels though. To late to do anything about it now, should have nipped it in the bud with cancellara and Matti breschel in 2010, now its to late and will ruin the sport. Would be my guess why there is no high profile busts.

I think the tone online is shifting. Not by journalists, but definitely in the comments. I think journalists don't drive narrative as much as they follow what works. They'll start asking questions more critically when they notice there's a demand for it.

 

[ashhutch1997]

I'm at the point where if he attacked at the base of the Tourmalet today and soloed to the end of the stage, putting 25 minutes into the entire peloton and ate a baby while giving his victory interview, it would be the most normal thing in cycling history.

I agree until the eating a baby comment, his PR team are too good for him to do that. He'd do a Landis in zone 2 then give his glasses or something to a kid at the end, which makes everything ok.

 

[Divergence]

Armstrong wasn’t a super responder any more than any other super tuned and talented athlete would be. Or is. Armstrong simply decided to buy the best programme that money could buy, partnering up with Ferrari because he was at the cutting edge. Armstrong went hi tech. Everyone else was doing domestic science. Parallels can absolutely made with what we see happening today.

I chose to respond to your post, but this is kinda true for everybody mentioning Armstrong and his "advantage" over his rivals.
The truth is that he did not have anything others did not have. Well, maybe two things and those are discipline and some brains (not his brains but people close to him).

 

[ashhutch1997]

I chose to respond to your post, but this is kinda true for everybody mentioning Armstrong and his "advantage" over his rivals.
The truth is that he did not have anything others did not have. Well, maybe two things and those are discipline and some brains (not his brains but people close to him).

Agreed. If Jan Ullrich actually turned up in his 1997 form I don't think Lance would've won 7 Tours IMO.
The main advantage LA had was his main rival turned up unprepared and overweight every year bar 2003, where funnily enough Ullrich pushed Armstrong very close.

 

[cnort]

Also, Ferrari had other clients he was working with long before Armstrong hired him (Chiappucci, Bugno, Cipollini, etc).

I suspect Chiappucci was a pretty good responder, but also quite a chaotic individual - he may not have been great at sticking to a programme. Bugno had a lot of issues with self-doubt and lack of confidence.

If anything is clear about Armstrong, he had no shortage of confidence or ability to follow a plan. EPO usage took a while to be refined, too. He was willing to go to extremes leaving no stone unturned and do as Ferrari prescribed, as well as demand the best equipment and support. So he was a super-responder who was super-prepared.

When Roy Keane was at Manchester United, he learnt that you need to best to perform the best. Attitude is important - train right, eat right, etc. When he moved to Scotland they lost a game, and as he got on the team bus to leave the ground, one of his teammates was eating a packet of crisps. He thought to himself, "welcome to hell". I imagine Armstrong was similarly driven to expecting that everyone in the team should be 100% behind the same goal, and be willing to go to the nth degree to achieve it. That must be worth a few percent in performance gains. Mind you, I still think he was a dreadful character.

 

[Blobs]

I chose to respond to your post, but this is kinda true for everybody mentioning Armstrong and his "advantage" over his rivals.
The truth is that he did not have anything others did not have. Well, maybe two things and those are discipline and some brains (not his brains but people close to him).

Armstrong had a couple of positives covered up. If you are not afraid of going over the limit, then you can push closer to it. That was his advantage.

 

[Raest]

I chose to respond to your post, but this is kinda true for everybody mentioning Armstrong and his "advantage" over his rivals.
The truth is that he did not have anything others did not have. Well, maybe two things and those are discipline and some brains (not his brains but people close to him).

Armstrong's doping was administered with the help of the team, allegedly he even had transfusions while on helicopters. The others had to organise clandestine visits of their own to dodgy doctors that on occasion would mix up their blood bags. Not entirely the same

 

[Raest]

Nils Politt the mountain goat. Getting George Hincapie vibes...

 

[SorelyBoy]

Six foot four, 80kg 31 year old Nils Pollitt handing world class climbers their arse over *the Pyrenees*. Pogacar continually having a one way conversation with Adam Yates like he’s sitting next to him on the train (‘you need to try this bike Adam, it’s amazingly easy to ride’). Yeah totally normal.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Armstrong's doping was administered with the help of the team, allegedly he even had transfusions while on helicopters. The others had to organise clandestine visits of their own to dodgy doctors that on occasion would mix up their blood bags. Not entirely the same

They did most of the transfusions on the bus if I remembered correctly. They'd park on some random road and pretend they'd broken down.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Nils Politt the mountain goat. Getting George Hincapie vibes...

Can't wait for him to win up Le Loze by paying off his breakaway companion.

 

[E_F_]

In complete control of the Tour...

 

[nightowl]

Politt pointing to his veins lmaoooooo

 

[burning]

Nils Politt the mountain goat. Getting George Hincapie vibes...

Hincapie was never ever close to this level, this is like 2012 Sky EBH doing 100km pulls in the mountain stages