Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[canina82]

The peloton knows.

Yeah, they know there is a freak athlete, probably the best ever who keeps doing these insane performance against other dopers.

 

[SorelyBoy]

It really doesn’t. Only a few specific people seem to think so, the rest of the world doesn’t agree and doesn’t come up with such random, highly unlikely theories.

And by the way, I find it funny because I’ve never seen a cyclist with a spare bike (not from the his own team) not try to switch it basically immediately with the utmost urgency, in any circustance. Let alone in a race like Paris Roubaix.

Why didn’t he take a spare wheel? Was it actually a flat even? What was with the weird wheel rotation once he was off the bike? He looked like a guy afraid to leave the bike and yet knowing he was losing the race if he didn’t do something. And the fact is he did look remarkably worse on that Shimano bike, which contrary to his post race comments was a professional level bike set up for him. I am also keen to hear a logical explanation that explains why he’s so amazingly good other than it’s all because he’s amazingly good. There’s nothing about his body that screams super freaky mutant cyclist who can beat everyone and anyone across any race type, all year and with very little sign of fatigue (which is rather unprecedented and which even the least bit of consideration would tell you is unlikely). Cobbles do not his body type suit, he looks even more wrong on them than he does blasting a 58kg Vingegaard into kingdom come in the high mountains. His attacks don’t even look like attacks, just random accelerations as if someone threw him a rope from the team car.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Question - Poll - is tadej pocagar using a hidden motor?

Wanted to see what everyone thinks

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

You have to think that motors are playing a part these days. Anywhere an edge can be found and used , it’s going to be used.
How strict are the scans on bikes in the big races ? I don’t know

 

[AlpRaid]

It was a Canyon Ultimate from 2022, which is a very good bike, with dura ace C60 wheels. The spare bikes are are also measured up to all the favourates measurements. So no excuses for the "GOAT".
I not sure I believe the 'motor' accusations, but is was very suspicious how terrible he looked on the other bike, then was like a motorcycle the second he got back on the Colnago..

apparently he also had a motorcycle escort that increased the chase group speed by 15 km/h (according to one rider in that group)!

 

[daking123]

Most people don’t realize how little battery it takes to add 20–30 watts for about 20 minutes that roughly a 5% boost for a top rider. You are talking around 50 grams of battery. It is absolutely possible with the right people to avoid detection.
What does that mean? Holding attacks easier, dropping rivals sooner, and recovering faster between efforts. Who does that sound like?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It was a Canyon Ultimate from 2022,

I guess it suits his sponsors for him to criticise a competitor's product.

 

[SorelyBoy]

I guess it suits his sponsors for him to criticise a competitor's product.

‘Hi, I’m Tadej Pogacar. Buy a Colnago bike and you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how fast it goes. Maybe enough to help you win Paris Roubaix, or at least finish second to that nasty Van Aert.’*

*Requires USB charger sold separately.

 

[Cookster15]

. It is absolutely possible with the right people to avoid detection.

I am very sceptical of this claim. I am sure technically its easy. But its not so easy to hide.

Is this motor so small it can't be seen in plain sight by any competent mechanic when they pull the bottom bracket apart after races (UCI policy)? A Google AI search also suggests even a 30Watt motor is quite heavy - at least a full pound (400 grams). This is because all electric motors require magnets made of primarily of iron.

According to what I read here none of Pogacar's bikes are checked after all of his wins or days wearing the yellow jersey? The only way that is possible is some kind of corruption. Assume this is what you are alluding to by "the right people"?

I think he's on a sophisticated program - not motors.

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

It was a Canyon Ultimate from 2022, which is a very good bike, with dura ace C60 wheels. The spare bikes are are also measured up to all the favourates measurements. So no excuses for the "GOAT".
I not sure I believe the 'motor' accusations, but is was very suspicious how terrible he looked on the other bike, then was like a motorcycle the second he got back on the Colnago..

Lmao

A) It’s clearly not the 2022 Ultimate, but rather the 2020/2021 model. The bike with the Shimano paint job clearly didn’t have an aerocockpit. So it’s a bike that’s more than five years old.

B) The Ultimate is a pure climbing bike. Why do you think MvdP (all Canyon rider) races on the Aeroad instead of the Ultimate?

 

[ashhutch1997]

Lmao

A) It’s clearly not the 2022 Ultimate, but rather the 2020/2021 model. The bike with the Shimano paint job clearly didn’t have an aerocockpit. So it’s a bike that’s more than five years old.

B) The Ultimate is a pure climbing bike. Why do you think MvdP (all Canyon rider) races on the Aeroad instead of the Ultimate?

I apologize for being a year out.
Also, Pogačar destroyed everyone in 2024 and 2025 RVV/ PR on the colnago v5rs, which is not an areo bike, and tests very, very bad. This thing about modern bikes is massively over exaggerated, just a marketing scam IMO.

 

[daking123]

I am very sceptical of this claim. I am sure technically its easy. But its not so easy to hide.

Is this motor so small it can't be seen in plain sight by any competent mechanic when they pull the bottom bracket apart after races (UCI policy)? A Google AI search also suggests even a 30Watt motor is quite heavy - at least a full pound (400 grams). This is because all electric motors require magnets made of primarily of iron.

According to what I read here none of Pogacar's bikes are checked after all of his wins or days wearing the yellow jersey? The only way that is possible is some kind of corruption. Assume this is what you are alluding to by "the right people"?

I think he's on a sophisticated program - not motors.

It’s obviously both corruption and very well hidden motor that is hard to pin point . The real question we all should be asking is who is analyzing the pictures?
But I ask again. I am certain I am right based on all circumstantial evidence. Especially based on the difference between his TT bike and road bike.
So why did he do the following: :”Remember when pogacar chose not to use his time trial bike on Tour de France 2025 stage 13 and still destroyed every opponent on the flat? On that small section, the motor came in handy so he could be as fresh as a daisy for the climb.”

There are several small details in his set up that does not make any sense , it only makes sense if you are utilizing a motor.

 

[Cookster15]

It’s obviously both corruption and very well hidden motor that is hard to pin point . The real question we all should be asking is who is analyzing the pictures?
But I ask again. I am certain I am right based on all circumstantial evidence. Especially based on the difference between his TT bike and road bike.
So why did he do the following: :”Remember when pogacar chose not to use his time trial bike on Tour de France 2025 stage 13 and still destroyed every opponent on the flat? On that small section, the motor came in handy so he could be as fresh as a daisy for the climb.”

There are several small details in his set up that does not make any sense , it only makes sense if you are utilizing a motor.

You can't hide motors sorry. Not when they are supposed to check every stage or race winner and the wearer of the yellow jersey after stages. Anyone with the right tools can open the bottom brackets and a 20 watt motor is easy to see. It can only be corruption.

 

[onefortheroad]

I’m also interested in teddys body clock.
He did start young
He did look spent at the end of last years tour, and he couldn’t drop Wout.
They’re all on the juice.
But if he carries on his level for another 3 or 4 years that would truly be unprecedented, based on his young start in the big time. That’s why the comparisons with Eddy are premature.

We seem to be thinking Teddy has already won the next 3 tours, let alone the one coming up, me thinks it may not be so simple.

Why you think it wouldn't be simple? After missing out again his first win of PR and the 5 monuments this year, he'll be out for blood. He will not be at Giro or Vuelta. I think the Tour will be as easy as his "engine" allows. Anyone else (Vinge only) planning to find a higher power mode (?!) or should we just start counting the minutes to 2nd place now?

 

[E_F_]

You can't hide motors sorry. Not when they are supposed to check every stage or race winner and the wearer of the yellow jersey after stages. Anyone with the right tools can open the bottom brackets and a 20 watt motor is easy to see.

They don't do that, though. I've tried to make that case before, but it never sticks with you for some reason. They want to avoid being "invasive" or whatever. They use the useless tablets, maybe most of the time... Maybe? I suspect less frequently the x-ray. I think you can shield parts from x-rays. I've seen nothing to suggest pulling apart the bikes is done in any way systematically. On the contrary I had a meltdown on this forum over a quote, that it was basically never done. We did see that one PR video with a puzzled looking Victor Campy since then, I guess.


Also corruption can take many forms. It could be as simple as UAE doing funny business with the bikes, and the UCI letting it slide, because they think that's in their best interests for whatever various compounding reasons.

 

[E_F_]

I'll just reiterate. There is no proof that Pogacar is motor doping. No real evidence either to be honest. But there is quite a bit of potential circumstantial evidence. And all the arguments ruling it out fall flat. Taking this into consideration along with Pogacar's dominance, I think it's very much worth considering, though.

 

[Nomad]

I am very sceptical of this claim. I am sure technically its easy. But its not so easy to hide.

Is this motor so small it can't be seen in plain sight by any competent mechanic when they pull the bottom bracket apart after races (UCI policy)? A Google AI search also suggests even a 30Watt motor is quite heavy - at least a full pound (400 grams). This is because all electric motors require magnets made of primarily of iron.

According to what I read here none of Pogacar's bikes are checked after all of his wins or days wearing the yellow jersey? The only way that is possible is some kind of corruption. Assume this is what you are alluding to by "the right people"?

I think he's on a sophisticated program - not motors.

What kind of a program & substances/methods do you think it is? Could it be hematological? Steroidal? Hormonal? All of the above? None of the above?

The evidence of greatest performance enhancing in endurance sports is hands down oxygen-vector doping. We saw that in the "wild 1990s" with introduction of EPO & the significant improvement in performance over the previous decades (Riis is on record stating that EPO use was "the normal preparation for a professional cyclist"). Testosterone, steroids & HGH were just side-dishes used to aid in recovery & injury rehab. Since no test existed for EPO it was full-throttle doping & the battle of the higher responders (e.g, Pantani, Riis, Ulrich, Indurain, etc)

The Armstrong era ushered in IC blood transfusions with the EPO test developed (EPO still use in OOC training blocks). Testosterone, steroids, GH still used as secondary PEDs for recovery & injury rehab. Still great performances from the higher responders with Armstrong dominated as the most successful O2-vector doper of that era (not much sophistication as Armstrong has said the biggest challenge was circumventing the 50% Hct safety limit). Aside from Postal's organized team doping program, Operation Puerto was center stage and later implicated a lot of top riders.

Then comes the ABP era that we're currently in where "microdosing" is the buzzword. However, one very sophisticated blood doping program came into existence with Operation Aderlass (Dr Mark Schmidt). Aderlass was able to circumvent the ABP by the following method: Just before arrival at the starting spot on the morning of the competition, an athlete would infuse the blood and immediately after competition, withdraw the same amount out before any testing. But Aderlass was broken up after a disgruntled athlete went to authorities, and not many cyclists were implicated (and certainly no big names)

Could there be another type Operation Aderlass programs specific to certain teams? Could a rider infuse the blood either in the hotel or on bus ride to the start line on the morning of the competition, and then be able to withdraw that same amount in the short window immediately after competition & before the testing? (Is there enough time that a rider could sneak into the team bus & withdrawal the blood before testing & podium presentations?).

Anyway...after all that, I like this guy's theory of motor/mechanical doping:

View: https://youtu.be/PQ-LzQ7rcCo?si=b08guWZSvmO2k20p

 

[BubbaChuck]

And here is the Bald Eagle fresh like a rose after smashing everyone...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0YynnRTuWo&t=297s

 

[BubbaChuck]

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

And here is the Bald Eagle fresh like a rose after smashing everyone...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0YynnRTuWo&t=297s

Fresh? Riis was at least visibly knackered at the end of Hautacam for example.
Pog remains expressionless like a robot all the time with his torso sailing in to the wind

 

[SorelyBoy]

What kind of a program & substances/methods do you think it is? Could it be hematological? Steroidal? Hormonal? All of the above? None of the above?

The evidence of greatest performance enhancing in endurance sports is hands down oxygen-vector doping. We saw that in the "wild 1990s" with introduction of EPO & the significant improvement in performance over the previous decades (Riis is on record stating that EPO use was "the normal preparation for a professional cyclist"). Testosterone, steroids & HGH were just side-dishes used to aid in recovery & injury rehab. Since no test existed for EPO it was full-throttle doping & the battle of the higher responders (e.g, Pantani, Riis, Ulrich, Indurain, etc)

The Armstrong era ushered in IC blood transfusions with the EPO test developed (EPO still use in OOC training blocks). Testosterone, steroids, GH still used as secondary PEDs for recovery & injury rehab. Still great performances from the higher responders with Armstrong dominated as the most successful O2-vector doper of that era (not much sophistication as Armstrong has said the biggest challenge was circumventing the 50% Hct safety limit). Aside from Postal's organized team doping program, Operation Puerto was center stage and later implicated a lot of top riders.

Then comes the ABP era that we're currently in where "microdosing" is the buzzword. However, one very sophisticated blood doping program came into existence with Operation Aderlass (Dr Mark Schmidt). Aderlass was able to circumvent the ABP by the following method: Just before arrival at the starting spot on the morning of the competition, an athlete would infuse the blood and immediately after competition, withdraw the same amount out before any testing. But Aderlass was broken up after a disgruntled athlete went to authorities, and not many cyclists were implicated (and certainly no big names)

Could there be another type Operation Aderlass programs specific to certain teams? Could a rider infuse the blood either in the hotel or on bus ride to the start line on the morning of the competition, and then be able to withdraw that same amount in the short window immediately after competition & before the testing? (Is there enough time that a rider could sneak into the team bus & withdrawal the blood before testing & podium presentations?).

Anyway...after all that, I like this guy's theory of motor/mechanical doping:

View: https://youtu.be/PQ-LzQ7rcCo?si=b08guWZSvmO2k20p

You make some great points, and for my part I don’t think oxygen vector doping totally explains these cobbled classics performances. I think that chap’s video is pretty reasonable and rational, and I’ve seen others suggest that he’s on huge amounts of pain killers given his ‘blankness’. The video also mentions observing the same thing as myself and others on here have noticed, in that the accelerations and speeds Pogacar achieves don’t appear to be consistent with his observable efforts. That the bike just seems to move ‘independently from him’. That the effort being made by his body didn’t warrant what we saw his bike then doing given how fast it was going. That’s what I saw at Paris Roubaix, particularly when he attacked Van Aert. Remember the side on angle where Pogacar zips past Van Aert and attacks him, and where Wout’s body is contorting to out down huge power, Pogacar serenely glides past on his bike. I have seen similar from Pogacar for maybe the last couple of years, and yet as said above, his performances sometimes take a remarkable dip, particularly on TT bikes. Then there’s the other weirdness. The bike changes. The TT rides on normal frames. The over spinning back wheels. The crashes that he just gets up from and zooms past the peloton as if, to quote one rider ‘he was on a motorbike.’ And don’t get me started on those effortless and often very lengthy high mountains attacks. Then we have UAE and their tendency to act oddly as regards the bike. Sure, the cracked frame excuse. I think everyone was going, ‘Huh, what?’ with that one. But I seem to remember there was at least one incident in the Tour (2021? He was merely thermonuclear back then) where UAE had a physical standoff with UCI officials over them taking some bikes for testing post race. Something is off.

 

[BubbaChuck]

Youve said Eddie would smash Pogacar,dont go soft now.

 

[Glorious]

I've been following this here for a while, and the reason is simple: I am 100% convinced that Pogacar is using mechanical doping. It is unbelievable that this is simply possible, and we are seeing all kinds of indirect evidence. I stopped watching after the La Flèche Wallonne 2025, except for the Tour. And since last Sunday, I've become a bit more enthusiastic again. The 2025 La Flèche Wallonne, where, as always, he first looks down before suddenly dropping everyone out of nowhere.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

And since last Sunday, I've become a bit more enthusiastic again.

Cause other guys have better motors now?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Illmaestro's Pogacar Moto thread exists. Maybe we should disentangle the debates about substance and mechanical doping.