Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Ripper]

Regardless, popcorn might be necessary. If his form is on the up and up trajectory, perhaps we can see a nearly unheard of super third peak where he destroys everyone

Lollllzzzzz
He is rockin' into form now. Zoom zoom zoom

Oh my

 

[GuntherL1]

Well, that was fun. I guess the boosters were already distributed by UAE.

 

[F_Cance]

masnada clearly more juiced today

 

[saganftw]

i mean beating masnada doesnt really say the story but what a season

also, despite all the clinic stuff pogacar showed today why its so easy to root for him, if you juice at least dont jerk off in group behind

 

[Ripper]

i mean beating masnada doesnt really say the story but what a season

also, despite all the clinic stuff pogacar showed today why its so easy to root for him, if you juice at least dont jerk off in group behind

I guess he's so likable so the doping to the point that he might be spreading gills is all okay.

Waiting for the quote that he was having fun today, with a big smile and his hair sticking everywhere.

 

[saganftw]

I guess he's so likable so the doping to the point that he might be spreading gills is all okay.

Waiting for the quote that he was having fun today, with a big smile and his hair sticking everywhere.

dont put words in my mouth, never said it was ok

but it certainly beats watching adam yates sprinting for 3rd despite being the best climber in the group with roglic having a bad day and not even trying to attack

yeah i dont feel sorry for others

 

[BlueRoads]

It's ridiculous how he's always absolutely unbeatable when needed, while he's just a very good rider on all other race days.
Still, in the end the others messed this up so badly tactically today, that in the end despite the disgusting side, one has to say it looked just deserved. Of course it's way easier to be super cool if you're super-fuelled.

 

[Ripper]

dont put words in my mouth, never said it was ok

but it certainly beats watching adam yates sprinting for 3rd despite being the best climber in the group with roglic having a bad day and not even trying to attack

yeah i dont feel sorry for others

Sorry about that!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's ridiculous how he's always absolutely unbeatable when needed, while he's just a very good rider on all other race days.
Still, in the end the others messed this up so badly tactically today, that in the end despite the disgusting side, one has to say it looked just deserved. Of course it's way easier to be super cool if you're super-fuelled.

The Tour and monuments aside, he also had huge efforts at Tirreno, Tour of Basque Country (despite losing) and Tour of Slovenia. I would say he was super strong in most races until the Tour but had an understandable lapse after the Olympics.

 

[BlueRoads]

The Tour and monuments aside, he also had huge efforts at Tirreno, Tour of Basque Country (despite losing) and Tour of Slovenia. I would say he was super strong in most races until the Tour but had an understandable lapse after the Olympics.

He's very strong, but there is a difference between his main target days on which he's unbeatable (look at his time trial results) and other days. I'm not saying he's a donkey on other days, certainly not... but that is one exact and perfect timing of goals.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He's very strong, but there is a difference between his main target days on which he's unbeatable (look at his time trial results) and other days. I'm not saying he's a donkey on other days, certainly not... but that is one exact and perfect timing of goals.

I agree regarding time-trials to some extent but not with road stages. He was ridiculously strong in that hilly rainy day at Tirreno (definitely not his target), which was just a day after his victory at a mountaintop finish. Also a superb effort on the last stage of Tour of Basque Country (despite losing it due to tactical factors) and on one of ToS stages. I would say only Lombardy is really a suspicious road race in this regard (he showed his rising form only a few days ago on Tuesday). Anyway, I don't think you can expect anyone to produce huge efforts all season long, it's difficult to recover quickly from them.

 

[BlueRoads]

I agree with time-trials to some extent but not with road stages. He was ridiculously strong in that hilly rainy day at Tirreno (definitely not his target), which was just a day after his victory at a mountaintop finish. Also a superb effort on the last stage of Tour of Basque Country (despite losing it due to tactical factors) and on one of ToS stages. I would say only Lombardy is really a suspicious road race in this regard (he showed his rising form only a few days ago on Tuesday). Anyway, I don't think you can expect anyone to produce huge efforts all season long, it's difficult to recover quickly from them.

No, I think I already said that in the Roglic thread, someone who is great all year round is also suspicious to me . Personally, I find the concept of peaking two times in the year for about two weeks more convincing. But Pogacar being there like that in Liège, now in Lombardia, and in every Tour time trial when he has to... the peak is just perfectly planned for the day when it's needed. And it's three peaks now. Like I said before, I don't really know anymore and I don't have the knowledge anyway, but ask me "what form pattern do you find suspicious" and my immediate answer is "this is among the worst ones".

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No, I think I already said that in the Roglic thread, someone who is great all year round is also suspicious to me . Personally, I find the concept of peaking two times in the year for about two weeks more convincing. But Pogacar being there like that in Liège, now in Lombardia, and in every Tour time trial when he has to... the peak is just perfectly planned for the day when it's needed. And it's three peaks now. Like I said before, I don't really know anymore and I don't have the knowledge anyway, but ask me "what form pattern do you find suspicious" and my immediate answer is "this is among the worst ones".

Aha, ok. No sense for further discussions then. And let's make it clear - I wouldn't bet anything on Pogacar (or any top guy) being clean I was just reasoning that he had great performances in non-GT non-monument races as well.

 

[sir fly]

Unconcerned.

 

[solo80k]

Lance + Contador + Valverde combined.

 

[Ripper]

No, I think I already said that in the Roglic thread, someone who is great all year round is also suspicious to me . Personally, I find the concept of peaking two times in the year for about two weeks more convincing. But Pogacar being there like that in Liège, now in Lombardia, and in every Tour time trial when he has to... the peak is just perfectly planned for the day when it's needed. And it's three peaks now. Like I said before, I don't really know anymore and I don't have the knowledge anyway, but ask me "what form pattern do you find suspicious" and my immediate answer is "this is among the worst ones".

Don't forget the early season ... UAE Tour

 

[Ripper]

It's ridiculous how he's always absolutely unbeatable when needed, while he's just a very good rider on all other race days.
Still, in the end the others messed this up so badly tactically today, that in the end despite the disgusting side, one has to say it looked just deserved. Of course it's way easier to be super cool if you're super-fuelled.

Indeed.

He certainly generates some fanboy stupidity on the professional road racing thread. I don't doubt for a moment he's megatalented, but his performances and team management scream mega doped.

I truly wonder what is going on now. I remember in the early days of EPO not understanding why I was so, so terribly bad compared to other racers. I mean, I was never going to be a world class rider. But reconciling where I was, compared to local pros, and how they were compared to international stars, was just hard.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

A simple blood reinfusion after Emilia??

 

[Eeslliw]

I think they are learning you can't win all (or better said you shouldn't), so he goes all out (with some help ) only for major races. The turning point was that TDF stage raid he did, giving 3 min plus to others and the amount of funny looks and questions he got after only made them rethink.

 

[solo80k]

A simple blood reinfusion after Emilia??

It's just a final touch. I'm wondering what's behind the scenes. Possible answers:

- Pogi is a genetic freak with extremely high basic numbers so he responds to a classical doping program with the similar performance improvement in % but it's much higher value than any competition - he's known as a talented rider as a junior so it's somehow possible

-doping program allowed (or maybe even sponsored) by local cycling federation/Anty Doping Agency so he uses all stuff without bothering about any masking - it's a good call since he's not the only Slovenian who's bossing different races for a few years

- he's using the most risky/bold methods for the performance enhancement - if so, he'll be caught eventually in a few years

- UAE is a pioneer of the new/enhanced doping program - don't believe in this since their Tour squad was much worse than Jumbo or Ineos overall

 

[Ripper]

It's just a final touch. I'm wondering what's behind the scenes. Possible answers:

- Pogi is a genetic freak with extremely high basic numbers so he responds to a classical doping program with the similar performance improvement in % but it's much higher value than any competition - he's known as a talented rider as a junior so it's somehow possible

-doping program allowed (or maybe even sponsored) by local cycling federation/Anty Doping Agency so he uses all stuff without bothering about any masking - it's a good call since he's not the only Slovenian who's bossing different races for a few years

- he's using the most risky/bold methods for the performance enhancement - if so, he'll be caught eventually in a few years

- UAE is a pioneer of the new/enhanced doping program - don't believe in this since their Tour squad was much worse than Jumbo or Ineos overall

How about the first three? I don't believe this is a "team based" approach, but I don't doubt for a second that team leadership would have connected Taddy with some means

 

[Rackham]

Pogacar's rivals are going to need to understand he turns on the power when he wants it. He's an unbeatable rider this season when he targets something.

No one can go to the Tour (for example) next year & assume anything based on Pog's showing in previous races. He did this last year when he was anonymous in the Dauphiné before the Tour (& arguably looked on a downward trajectory before the Planche des Belles Filles TT), again to a certain extent this year where he was beaten in the Slovenian TT a week before the Tour & now again here with Lombardia after he was anonymous last weekend & a level below on Wednesday.

Big races = a nuclear Pog performance dialled in with surgical precision & once the job is done (like in the Tour after the Alps), it's back to "normal".

I don't think Roglic for example can beat this guy in the Tour. Not because Pog is ever so clearly better (he's not, we've seen Rog beat him plenty of times & he still does) but because there's always going to be that one day where Pogacar destroys everyone, whether it's a TT or mountain stage. Like Lance on the first mountain summit finish back in his glory days when he'd butcher his rivals.

But in Pogacar's case it's in the monuments as well.

 

[BlueRoads]

Pogacar's rivals are going to need to understand he turns on the power when he wants it. He's an unbeatable rider this season when he targets something.

No one can go to the Tour (for example) next year & assume anything based on Pog's showing in previous races. He did this last year when he was anonymous in the Dauphiné before the Tour (& arguably looked on a downward trajectory before the Planche des Belles Filles TT), again to a certain extent this year where he was beaten in the Slovenian TT a week before the Tour & now again here with Lombardia after he was anonymous last weekend & a level below on Wednesday.

Big races = a nuclear Pog performance dialled in with surgical precision & once the job is done (like in the Tour after the Alps), it's back to "normal".

I don't think Roglic for example can beat this guy in the Tour. Not because Pog is ever so clearly better (he's not, we've seen Rog beat him plenty of times & he still does) but because there's always going to be that one day where Pogacar destroys everyone, whether it's a TT or mountain stage. Like Lance on the first mountain summit finish back in his glory days when he'd butcher his rivals.

It's just depressing. If he would at least stick to the Tour, but no, he has to do it in one-day-races as well.

 

[meat puppet]

I dont think pogi is really "peaking" in the classical sense of the word besides the tour. If this is the case, the key to such performances is aerobic dominance, ie a very very high 90-95% peak form level that is always there (unless fatigue masks it). The question is how they attain it.

His coach San Millan emphasises spending copious amounts of time around LT1 (upper endurance, or coggan z2) on every public appearance, and poaching UAE riders' strava data seems to confirm this is what they do, sprinkled with some intensity of course. So high volume and level all year round. The funny thing is this is bread and butter endurance training, so my guess is they do something else too. And that is oxygen vector doping.

Anyway, from the ridiculous base you can do what needs doing for races, clinically and otherwise.

 

[noob]

Lance + Contador + Valverde combined.

Not in personality though. Hence why he gets away with it! I don't think anyone would have accepted the Lance kinda personality today. It's out of fashion. Hence all the Van Aert criticism as well as Remco.