Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[ivanic]

I did not watch the live race for the simple reason of being 99% sure it would end up in a circus. Just took a look at the replay a few minutes ago paying attention to the way the leaders of the race rode the decisive section -- the last Kwaremont-Paterberg combo. What can I say (as if anybody expected different): same story as in 2023 that was one the clearest cases of an external assist usage. Just look at the speed of the initial separation from Matt PdV who is supposed to be an explosive big (but not too big) guy -- and a sort of nature freak to boot -- taylor-made for races just like this one. Poor Matt, with all his explosive power, could not do a thing to try not even to close this gap, but to slow down its growth. Then the body language --on both Kwaremont and Paterberg, especially the steep section. Same story as in 2023, if not even more blatant. Just look at the contrast of the smooth effortless propulsion of Pogi the weasel and the chasers thereof, shaking, doing full body motions and visibly trying to stay upright. If anybody lives nearby, he could try a simple experiment. First, climb the Paterberg on your normal bike. Then do same on a e-bike with some good (300W +) assist. Do your best in both runs and make sure to film them. Then watch them back to back. I bet you will see the same contrast that was on display in today's race, or, rather, "race".

P.S. Was funny that the commentators just kept saying just that: how easily and effortlessly he glided up those 16% cobbled inclines. So easily that the only way to see how hard this climb is was to look at the weaklings like Matt PdV and his hapless chase group buddies.

P.P.S. Also noticed that some folks on these pages seem to believe that all this circus could be just a result of something as simple as oxygen deprivation training, a self-suffocating, if not self-poisoning, of sorts, and the weasel Pogi is just so different from other self-suffocaters because of his miraculous "blood composition". Sure sounds like it.

Ok but this problem could have existed for almost twenty years.

Has anyone ever put themselves in the main stages or races with an infrared camera? How is that possible?
Are we still stuck with that joke about Roglic's bike on the strade bianche?

 

[Fos]

I did not watch the live race for the simple reason of being 99% sure it would end up in a circus. Just took a look at the replay a few minutes ago paying attention to the way the leaders of the race rode the decisive section -- the last Kwaremont-Paterberg combo. What can I say (as if anybody expected different): same story as in 2023 that was one the clearest cases of an external assist usage. Just look at the speed of the initial separation from Matt PdV who is supposed to be an explosive big (but not too big) guy -- and a sort of nature freak to boot -- taylor-made for races just like this one. Poor Matt, with all his explosive power, could not do a thing to try not even to close this gap, but to slow down its growth. Then the body language --on both Kwaremont and Paterberg, especially the steep section. Same story as in 2023, if not even more blatant. Just look at the contrast of the smooth effortless propulsion of Pogi the weasel and the chasers thereof, shaking, doing full body motions and visibly trying to stay upright. If anybody lives nearby, he could try a simple experiment. First, climb the Paterberg on your normal bike. Then do same on a e-bike with some good (300W +) assist. Do your best in both runs and make sure to film them. Then watch them back to back. I bet you will see the same contrast that was on display in today's race, or, rather, "race".

P.S. Was funny that the commentators just kept saying just that: how easily and effortlessly he glided up those 16% cobbled inclines. So easily that the only way to see how hard this climb is was to look at the weaklings like Matt PdV and his hapless chase group buddies.

P.P.S. Also noticed that some folks on these pages seem to believe that all this circus could be just a result of something as simple as oxygen deprivation training, a self-suffocating, if not self-poisoning, of sorts, and the weasel Pogi is just so different from other self-suffocaters because of his miraculous "blood composition". Sure sounds like it.

No way!, the bike with the motor is the brand new Y1RS.

The V4RS only has a simple stone-smoothing system. According to lab data, it's less effective, but they wanted to test its effectiveness before Roubaix.

 

[E_F_]

No way!, the bike with the motor is the brand new Y1RS.

The V4RS only has a simple stone-smoothing system. According to lab data, it's less effective, but they wanted to test its effectiveness before Roubaix.

Are you claiming to have insider knowledge? Or is there a joke I am missing?

 

[Gratemans]

Actually even in hindsight it was worth typing that last night because that's the crux of the matter, i.e. we're watching absolutely ruthless athletic specimens pushing the envelope of what's humanely possible with extreme scientific precision. They're risking their neck in more ways than one, literally. Cycling is a dangerous sport. The riders who do this sport take health risks on the road and in their prep. And they do it for all the usual reasons: money, glory, influence, fame, standing etc. It's been that way ever since I started watching as a kid in the 90's and remains so today. Different cast, same mentalities and behaviors.

So when the 'marketing people' come along and start portraying these athletes as "just riding his bike for fun" (aka Pogi) or as a model father who puts his family before everything (Vinge), I can only roll my eyes and call a spade a spade.

Didn't Vinge once claim he wouldn't take anything he wouldn't give his daughter? Which begs the question: did he put the carbon monoxide rebreather on her too?

That's what I'm talking about here. Aka the bigger picture when you step outside the cycling bubble and compare these riders with everyday normal law abiding (read not cheating) citizens. Oh and I've heard all the usual defense force spiel before from the likes of durianrider on youtube, i.e. "whaa you're addicted to coffee so you can't judge what Lance or Froome did and what Pogi does now". I mean come on... i.e. just enjoy the science-fiction spectacle and call them what they are right? Druggies who're risking their necks out there. And in a way we enable them because guess what? I'm subscribed to Max just for the cycling coverage.

That's just my opinion. I'm only typing this because even here in the clinic there seem to be people who actually buy the whole presentation aspect (aka their media profile) even when admitting these riders are on drugs. Nah, Pogi for example is ruthless as hell and his team UAE are total bullies in the peloton on the same level as US Postal once-upon-a-time. Ditto Visma (this accusation has been levelled against them by many smaller voices in the peloton for years).

I actually agree with everything you said in that long epistle, which didn't really adress my point in the first place: I just thought the word 'user' is more applicable here than 'addict'. But it's not really that important.
Again, I agree with you. With the slight caveat that when it comes to ruthlessness, these guys have a loooong way to go untill they can match Armstrong levels.
He actually destroyed peoples lives trying to cover up his bs. I don't believe the current aliens have gotten to that level yet. Then again, there's no need for them to do so, as current reporting just seem to be a bunch of cheerleaders.

 

[Cookster15]

In the UK with the price increase for discovery+ I could see the viewing figures dropping.

Of course if they have increased the subscription cost for Discovery that would reduce viewing numbers. But I am not just talking about Discovery (I don't even use that except inadvertently). I am talking about the total popularity (reach) of the sport - all mediums and channels. This is what drives the business model for advertisers - not just subscriptions to Netflix or Discovery.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1909163940421972301

View: https://x.com/DLappartient/status/1909163940421972301


The cult of personality. It makes me sick. UCI will always cover everything.

Why so bitter about this epic duel vs Vingegaard? Pure cyclismo.

 

[pastronef]

Yeh I won't be watching PR. No thank you.

watch it, the race itself is worth watching

 

[Netserk]

I hate all the "winning for x"-talk. It makes me sick to my stomach. But cycling fans ain't that different from kpop fans wanting their favorite to be a "role model". And when said person isn't the role model they assumed he was they hate him with the same passion they used to adore him.

I don't find it all that different to artists dedicating a work of art to someone dear to them. Heck, even some textbooks get dedicated to parents with no relation to the subject of the book.

 

[E_F_]

I don't find it all that different to artists dedicating a work of art to someone dear to them. Heck, even some textbooks get dedicated to parents with no relation to the subject of the book.

I think there must be some linguistic barrier here. Every Dane can see that he's just a silly boy, but in English language media he seems like a cynical, empty shell of a man.

 

[noob]

I don't find it all that different to artists dedicating a work of art to someone dear to them. Heck, even some textbooks get dedicated to parents with no relation to the subject of the book.

Thank you! That was a very interesting perspective I had never considered! Even in a wider perspective considering sports as art makes it more meaningful to me. There are elements in different sports I see as art, but never considered the competition in itself could be viewed as such. This is eye opening to me! Makes it more meaningful, since one of the reasons I watch cycling is because of the scenery.

Of course it is an art. A spectacle moving people to emotions (translated by our own senses and history our experiences varies) just like when watching a movie or a theater play. 🎭🎭🧨 ✨️✨️✨️🎆🎆🎆💭🚲

Edit added smileys on my phone

 

[Casual cyclist]

Thank you! That was a very interesting perspective I had never considered! Even in a wider perspective considering sports as art makes it more meaningful to me. There are elements in different sports I see as art, but never considered the competition in itself could be viewed as such. This is eye opening to me! Makes it more meaningful, since one of the reasons I watch cycling is because of the scenery.

Of course it is an art. A spectacle moving people to emotions (translated by our own senses and history our experiences varies) just like when watching a movie or a theater play. 🎭🎭🧨 ✨️✨️✨️🎆🎆🎆💭🚲

Edit added smileys on my phone

Then you should be perfectly happy with the current version of professional cycling. Since it is pretty much a version of theater play, just like WWE.

 

[noob]

Then you should be perfectly happy with the current version of professional cycling. Since it is pretty much a version of theater play, just like WWE.

Yeah. If I expected it to be reality I wouldn't have joined the forum for the clinic

 

[pastronef]

Bernaudeau (Total Energies)

"he must give guarantees. Some have done so. We live in suspicion, we had the Festina case. We are not immune to another scandal. I do not think cycling can afford another scandal. WADA was created, the biological passport was created, the tracking software (adams) was created, we are moving in the right direction. But now we have to go further, we have to change the laws.
I ask him to publish his parameters, his watts... what he does. And to keep his samples to say "I will be at your disposal in ten years when research progresses", as Félicia Ballanger did"

 

[BubbaChuck]

man there is gonna be so much crying after sunday,lmao.pog has to be doped,how can he win pr,look breathless,lol.yes that why he is killing them all.rest are clean,he only one chaets.

 

[Unchained]

man there is gonna be so much crying after sunday,lmao.pog has to be doped,how can he win pr,look breathless,lol.yes that why he is killing them all.rest are clean,he only one chaets.

You are correct if the negative voices are in your ear, but if they are not. Pogacar has search results on the internet, he has buzz in every magazine, podcast, media outlet associated with cycling. He is spreading a winning message never before witnessed in bike racing history. More people in Mexico are watching bike racing than when Eddy Merckx went there to break the record!!
Pogacar, and UAE factor are stimulating all things bike racing.. Cycling greats are telling the cycling community and public at large to watch Pogacar because it, he has historical significance. So being accused always comes with the territory, unfortunately in everything, not just sport. With the hundreds of different directions cycling has gone in to Gran Fondos, spinning class, gravel , RedBull stunt videos, Zwift and other electronic cycling, blogs, social media like YouTube.. Pogacar is expanding exposure and it's only going to get bigger as he nears or clears every bike racing record.
Many old people will watch just to see if he is better than last legend, Lance Armstrong..
Will they keep watching bike racing? Will they click on bike racing content in the future? Nobody knows. But good or bad, cheating or clean, hate or love, Pogacar has injected huge buzz

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

You are correct if the negative voices are in your ear, but if they are not. Pogacar has search results on the internet, he has buzz in every magazine, podcast, media outlet associated with cycling. He is spreading a winning message never before witnessed in bike racing history. More people in Mexico are watching bike racing than when Eddy Merckx went there to break the record!!
Pogacar, and UAE factor are stimulating all things bike racing.. Cycling greats are telling the cycling community and public at large to watch Pogacar because it, he has historical significance. So being accused always comes with the territory, unfortunately in everything, not just sport. With the hundreds of different directions cycling has gone in to Gran Fondos, spinning class, gravel , RedBull stunt videos, Zwift and other electronic cycling, blogs, social media like YouTube.. Pogacar is expanding exposure and it's only going to get bigger as he nears or clears every bike racing record.
Many old people will watch just to see if he is better than last legend, Lance Armstrong..
Will they keep watching bike racing? Will they click on bike racing content in the future? Nobody knows. But good or bad, cheating or clean, hate or love, Pogacar has injected huge buzz

And this is why he won't be caught, and probably none of the other aliens. Pogacars existence somewhat seems to obscure how remarkable the development in cycling has been in performance over the last few years.
There is to much to loose for cycling to have a real interest in finding out what is going on, especially since history has shown that trying to seriously battle doping does not get you applause but a bad reputation as a sport.

 

[Epicycle2]

And this is why he won't be caught, and probably none of the other aliens. Pogacars existence somewhat seems to obscure how remarkable the development in cycling has been in performance over the last few years.
There is to much to loose for cycling to have a real interest in finding out what is going on, especially since history has shown that trying to seriously battle doping does not get you applause but a bad reputation as a sport.

The risk with letting doping run rampant is that law enforcement will once again uncover something. The years of doping scandals were ignited by gendarmes with the Festina Tour and the Guardia Civil with Puerto. That's something the UCI and race organizers are powerless against.

 

[Netserk]

The risk with letting doping run rampant is that law enforcement will once again uncover something. The years of doping scandals were ignited by gendarmes with the Festina Tour and the Guardia Civil with Puerto. That's something the UCI and race organizers are powerless against.

Law enforcement don't bother football teams. Operación Puerto only indicted cyclists, no?

"And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."

 

[pelotonIQ]

Watch how disgusting the French media are, few days before Paris-Roubaix they release an article insinuating Pogacar is doping.

L'avenir de son équipe, le dopage, la domination de Pogacar, Paris-Roubaix... Le constat très cash de Bernaudeau sur l'état du cyclisme mondial

À quelques jours de Paris-Roubaix, Jean-René Bernaudeau, patron de l'équipe TotalEnergies, s'est longuement confié à RMC Sport. Soupçons de dopage autour de Tadej Pogacar, pistes pour améliorer le cyclisme mondial, rumeurs de partenariat entre TotalEnergies et Ineos-Grenadiers... Le dirigeant...

rmcsport.bfmtv.com

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Watch how disgusting the French media are, few days before Paris-Roubaix they release an article insinuating Pogacar is doping.

L'avenir de son équipe, le dopage, la domination de Pogacar, Paris-Roubaix... Le constat très cash de Bernaudeau sur l'état du cyclisme mondial

À quelques jours de Paris-Roubaix, Jean-René Bernaudeau, patron de l'équipe TotalEnergies, s'est longuement confié à RMC Sport. Soupçons de dopage autour de Tadej Pogacar, pistes pour améliorer le cyclisme mondial, rumeurs de partenariat entre TotalEnergies et Ineos-Grenadiers... Le dirigeant...

rmcsport.bfmtv.com

So if a long established team manager speaks publicly about his suspicions on a major competitor in the sport, journalists should sweep it under the carpet?

 

[Netserk]

So if a long established team manager speaks publicly about his suspicions on a major competitor in the sport, journalists should sweep it under the carpet?

If it's unsubstantiated suspicion, it's not fit to print. How is it newsworthy?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I would have thought if someone like Bernaudeau is willing to go public on it, it is likely to be of public interest. I don't know the source, whether it is well regarded and has a reputation for good journalism or thorough coverage of cycling, but omerta should not be the stance of the media.

 

[Netserk]

If a politician airs suspicion that another is corrupt, the newsworthiness of that depends on how substantiated an allegation it is. If it's based on nothing, why should anyone print that?

 

[Casual cyclist]

Watch how disgusting the French media are, few days before Paris-Roubaix they release an article insinuating Pogacar is doping.

L'avenir de son équipe, le dopage, la domination de Pogacar, Paris-Roubaix... Le constat très cash de Bernaudeau sur l'état du cyclisme mondial

À quelques jours de Paris-Roubaix, Jean-René Bernaudeau, patron de l'équipe TotalEnergies, s'est longuement confié à RMC Sport. Soupçons de dopage autour de Tadej Pogacar, pistes pour améliorer le cyclisme mondial, rumeurs de partenariat entre TotalEnergies et Ineos-Grenadiers... Le dirigeant...

rmcsport.bfmtv.com

True that. If it really just a little EM assist inside the "smart" bike and nothing else, then he is technically "clean" and all such allegations directed at just Pogo (and not the bike) should be considered unacceptable.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

If a politician airs suspicion that another is corrupt, the newsworthiness of that depends on how substantiated an allegation it is. If it's based on nothing, why should anyone print that?

If a politician of some standing is making such accusations publicly, and therefore willing to put his reputation on the line and risk being sued, that would absolutely be newsworthy.

We bemoan the fact that no-one is doing anything to bring doping to light and uproot it, and then we turn against the press tentatively trying to do that. This is far from the deep investigation that is probably needed (and I am very much open minded as to whether Pogacar is the one who most needs investigating), but if the alternative is omertá, I'll take it.