Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Easy there tiger. No he's not. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually tried to destroy peoples careers or lives.
I'm no fool but let's not preted he's frigging worse than Armstrong. That's just just preposterous.

To play the devil's advocate: No, but maybe he's also never had to even attempt it. You know, since he has the backing of an unscrupulous regime that has no issues committing human rights violations left and right. They have an amazing sports-washing project going for them, and it's costing them a fraction of what a football team would. Who's to say that they are not the ones putting pressure on anyone prolific who is trying to question the sporting validity of their project?

 

[pelotonIQ]

It's nothing new.

L.A. had his fanboys, as did Froome. Contador as well etc. I'd like to believe most people are at least aware the peloton is riding on some sort of rocket fuel since around 2020, i.e. stuff that makes whatever Sky was on look pathetic by comparison.

We can speculate a whole number of things but to me it looks like some riders need to get the timing absolutely spot on for a nuclear performance (Evenepoel for example who took about 5 steps forwards between the Dauphiné and the Tour last year) whereas Pog seems to manage his non-nuclear races (like Amstel) by almost winning them.

And that's the thing, i.e. cycling 'experts' on social media and in the press evidently have no idea what they're talking about because after Amstel we were precisely told it was evidence of Pog's spring curve form descending whilst Evenepoel was getting better. And then the opposite happened. People believed the same in the Tour last year after Vinge beat Pog at the Lioran, i.e. that Vingegaard was on the 'up'. But then the Pyrenees happened and Niermann and co couldn't believe their eyes when their boy got demolished on Beille. Grischa Niermann was heard on the radio saying something like "come on, Pogi doesn't like this high tempo" or something like that when Visma were drilling it. After the stage (& Vinge's massive defeat) Visma made the decision to opt out of the radio communications being shared on TV.

One thing you're missing is that all of the mentioned riders above (Contador, Froome, Armstrong) all had the same racing trajectory i.e got beaten and looked beatable before the tour to suddenly destroying everyone in the tour which means that anti-doping had to be precise with their timing if they were going to catch them and despite them doping during a small part of the season many of them still got caught. Pogacar, on the other hand, is racing like he does, winning, beating everyone year round season after season. If we presume Pogacar is doping why haven't anti-doping caught him? If a thief robs a bank every weekend he would be caught in no time.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

One thing you're missing is that all of the mentioned riders above (Contador, Froome, Armstrong) all had the same racing trajectory i.e got beaten and looked beatable before the tour to suddenly destroying everyone in the tour ...

Jesus Christ, are we now at a point where Pogistans are questioning the concept of ..... building form? Because that is what you're describing. It's called peaking. Most riders need to build their season around a few select goals for which they need to try to time their peak form. So when Pogi is competitive from February through October? Yeah, that is the outlier. Hard to think of many others who have been able to do the same. El Bala comes to mind, and we all know that we don't have to speculate whether or not he was clean.

 

[Rackham]

One thing you're missing is that all of the mentioned riders above (Contador, Froome, Armstrong) all had the same racing trajectory i.e got beaten and looked beatable before the tour to suddenly destroying everyone in the tour which means that anti-doping had to be precise with their timing if they were going to catch them and despite them doping during a small part of the season many of them still got caught. Pogacar, on the other hand, is racing like he does, winning, beating everyone year round season after season. If we presume Pogacar is doping why haven't anti-doping caught him? If a thief robs a bank every weekend he would be caught in no time.

Yeah that's really not a proper defense right there. Just look at his team, i.e. Pog's UAE teammates clean up everywhere or at least they're close albeit on a lower level with Almeida, Ayuso etc. so whatever they're doing it's clearly organized at a team level. Just like Visma. There's no "good guys" here in this arms race.

And this isn't directed at you personally per se but for me one of the most delirious parts of the cycling 'fandom' if we can call it that is using Merckx as some sort of GOAT barometer. The man was a notorious doper. So when I see or hear cycling 'journalists' attempt to portray Pogi as 'clean' whilst unironically calling him the new Merckx, then lol I guess.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Jesus Christ, are we now at a point where Pogistans are questioning the concept of ..... building form? Because that is what you're describing. It's called peaking. Most riders need to build their season around a few select goals for which they need to try to time their peak form. So when Pogi is competitive from February through October? Yeah, that is the outlier. Hard to think of many others who have been able to do the same. El Bala comes to mind, and we all know that we don't have to speculate whether or not he was clean.

Was Contador or L.A clean when they peaked in TdF after building form getting smacked around before the tour? I already made a post about how dopers target specific races to dope and then 'peak'.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Yeah that's really not a proper defense right there. Just look at his team, i.e. Pog's UAE teammates clean up everywhere or at least they're close albeit on a lower level with Almeida, Ayuso etc. so whatever they're doing it's clearly organized at a team level. Just like Visma. There's no "good guys" here in this arms race.

And this isn't directed at you personally per se but for me one of the most delirious parts of the cycling 'fandom' if we can call it that is using Merckx as some sort of GOAT barometer. The man was a notorious doper. So when I see or hear cycling 'journalists' attempt to portray Pogi as 'clean' whilst unironically calling him the new Merckx, then lol I guess.

You mean Ayuso, hes a supertalent since the juniors, he was destined to become good or Almeida, he has only won 1 stage race this season out of 4 or you mean Yates that only won tour of Oman this season? Where is this 'cleaning up' you are talking about?

 

[Rackham]

You mean Ayuso, hes a supertalent since the juniors, he was destined to become good or Almeida, he has only won 1 stage race this season out of 4 or you mean Yates that only won tour of Oman this season? Where is this 'cleaning up' you are talking about?

Victories for UAE Team Emirates - XRG 2025

UAE Team Emirates - XRG won 35 races in 2025. The biggest victories are Ronde van Vlaanderen - Tour des Flandres ME by Tadej PogaÄar, Liège-Bastogne-Liège (Tadej PogaÄar) and Santos Tour Down Under General Classification (Jhonatan Narváez).

www.procyclingstats.com

35 wins this season so far, which is 20 more than the team behind them (Lidl-Trek). Lots of second and third finishes as well.

Also 81 wins last year FYI, which was double what Lidl-Trek achieved.

 

[Netserk]

After the stage (& Vinge's massive defeat) Visma made the decision to opt out of the radio communications being shared on TV.

No, not after that stage, but after an unauthorised message was shared later, I think in stage 17.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Victories for UAE Team Emirates - XRG 2025

UAE Team Emirates - XRG won 35 races in 2025. The biggest victories are Ronde van Vlaanderen - Tour des Flandres ME by Tadej PogaÄar, Liège-Bastogne-Liège (Tadej PogaÄar) and Santos Tour Down Under General Classification (Jhonatan Narváez).

www.procyclingstats.com

35 wins this season so far, which is 20 more than the team behind them (Lidl-Trek). Lots of second and third finishes as well.

Also 81 wins last year FYI, which was double what Lidl-Trek achieved.

All of the riders mentioned are GC riders. ''Cleaning up'' doesn't mean to win a stage here or there. They haven't won the majority of GC races like I mentioned in my previous post. You're taking it a step further saying UAE are doping as a team, big accusations require big proof or atleast a big explanation.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Let's be honest, you are annoyed because in 2024 Pogacar turned the tables on your guy . At PdB Pogi also debunked a number of assumed truths.

But this is the Pogi / Gianetti thread. Mauro Gianetti became infamous for EPO CERA at the 2008 Tour de France. Yet at that race Cadel Evans was never genuinely concerned about Saunier Duval - Cadel was rightly focused on Saxo Bank. To their credit the UCI quickly cleaned up that mess. And it wasn't only Gianetti's riders who were busted for CERA - eg Bernard Kohl / Stefan Matschiner. Ricco and Kohl were never the best riders of the peloton.

Whataboutism is very difficult to avoid in this thread. You are right that Froome's peak performances are way below what Pogacar (+Vingegaard and Remco) is doing. Chris Froome transformed in 2011 at 26 from cannon fodder for Barloworld to a multiple grand tour winner for Sky. Pogacar arrived when he was barely 20 years old and still maturing (he won Tour de l'Avenir when he was still 19).

"Miracles can happen". Don't lose your time mate.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I‘m not really saying much here anyway and I‘m currently out looking for a favorite rider that doesn‘t win as many races as Pog, I like the way he rides but it‘s getting boring, but you‘re mostly derailing the thread by bringing up other people who aren‘t currently doing anything relevant to the conversation. But thank you for reminding me that I should normally avoid the Clinic at all cost.

The Clinic LOOKS (to not have a ban or deleted post) like a bunch of frustrated people screaming out loud "your rider is more doped than mine". Half of these posters, didn't even see Lance racing and are talking about Lance.
Last year, I listened things like "miracles can happen", now Pogacar is in an all diferent doping program.
I'm not discussing if Pogacar is doping or not (the answer is obvious), I'm just questioning if people can actually talk about different/new PEDs that might explain this increase in performance or they just want to scream and get attention.

 

[Rackham]

I watched Lance. I was there, so to speak. I didn't mind his first 5 Tours. They were passable within the context of the era he raced in. I mean if not Lance then Ullrich or Beloki would win. Hooray for 'clean' cycling I guess. There was some big entertainment (2003 Tour in particular), some incredible performances (2001 Tour was amazing) and some mishaps along the way (losing to Virenque on the Ventoux in 2002 because they gave the breakaway too much time was a rare defeat). But 2004 and especially 2005 were 'too much'. Too greedy, too unbelievable and far too clinical. Not in the clinic sense (that goes without saying) but in the mechanical and mercantile way he approached winning the Tour. It was like he had a checklist of wins to tick off in order to get paid millions via his endorsements so that's exactly what he did. It was cynical to the max.

And then of course Floyd Landis suddenly becoming a TdF contender was the final nail in the coffin for Lance's 'aura'. It was just ridiculous.

And that brings me to Pogi. From my chair here he's following a similar pattern. To me it doesn't even look like he's enjoying his job anymore. His wins over the past week have been lifeless and as unemotional as they get. He just wins and half smiles. Job done. Got paid.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

And that brings me to Pogi. From my chair here he's following a similar pattern. To me it doesn't even look like he's enjoying his job anymore. His wins over the past week have been lifeless and as unemotional as they get. He just wins and half smiles. Job done. Got paid.

Once you get on a sophisticated doping program, winning is no longer the ultimate high, instead it is just what you're paid to do.

David Miller I remember him talking about how winning no longer made him happy once he got on a proper doping program. There was no joy, only relief - job done.

 

[Raest]

Was Contador or L.A clean when they peaked in TdF after building form getting smacked around before the tour? I already made a post about how dopers target specific races to dope and then 'peak'.

It's not dopers, it's all athletes, it's called "periodization" and is a key principle of sports training. Nobody, can remain in peak form all year round, it's not humanly possible and the fact that Pogacar can doesn't mean that he's not doping, it means the very opposite (PED or motor). Either this or he is a new species to homo sapiens.
This thread is 345 pages long, everything that you are saying some other Pogfan has said before, multiple times in fact. And it's been answered. Again and again and again. Only for that poster to disappear and for another one to take their place after a while. Now it's you.

 

[topcat]

View: https://youtu.be/OdU9xRx-CHI?si=YnLvnuW5hfbx10hJ

 

[pelotonIQ]

And that brings me to Pogi. From my chair here he's following a similar pattern. To me it doesn't even look like he's enjoying his job anymore. His wins over the past week have been lifeless and as unemotional as they get. He just wins and half smiles. Job done. Got paid.

Do you want him to be happy like a kid in a candy store while hes sad over Urskas mother passing away? Maybe you didn't watch the race.

 

[Red Rick]

View: https://youtu.be/OdU9xRx-CHI?si=YnLvnuW5hfbx10hJ

Complete waste of time to make or watch that video.

 

[topcat]

Complete waste of time to make or watch that video.

It's a movie with a catchy title. It is a work of fiction. And that's what I feel like after watching Liege. That I wasted my time.
And, I'll probably recover in time for the tour and watch it, to see if the other mutant can beat super-mutant.

 

[pelotonIQ]

It's not dopers, it's all athletes, it's called "periodization" and is a key principle of sports training. Nobody, can remain in peak form all year round, it's not humanly possible and the fact that Pogacar can doesn't mean that he's not doping, it means the very opposite (PED or motor). Either this or he is a new species to homo sapiens.
This thread is 345 pages long, everything that you are saying some other Pogfan has said before, multiple times in fact. And it's been answered. Again and again and again. Only for that poster to disappear and for another one to take their place after a while. Now it's you.

Nobody has claimed that hes in peak form all year round. Let go off the straw man and be serious.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

View: https://youtu.be/OdU9xRx-CHI?si=YnLvnuW5hfbx10hJ

High level tactical analyses from these racing experts. A lot of small details that went into poxagar tactical decision to attack at the right moment

 

[Raest]

Nobody has claimed that hes in peak form all year round. Let go off the straw man and be serious.

So he's winning all year round from Strade Bianchi to TdL, and pretty much everything in the between, without being in top form. He is an allien then. The first homo sapiens superior. Or he's juiced to the gills/riding a moped

 

[topcat]

High level tactical analyses from these racing experts. A lot of small details that went into poxagar tactical decision to attack at the right moment

Accidentally attacks because he couldn't slow down. Genius.

 

[pelotonIQ]

High level tactical analyses from these racing experts. A lot of small details that went into poxagar tactical decision to attack at the right moment

They're not experts, more like hobby analysts. Neither of them has raced a bicycle. They're good at maybe crunching numbers and data but that's about it.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

They're not experts, more like hobby analysts. Neither of them has raced a bicycle. They're good at maybe crunching numbers and data but that's about it.

I was joking mate

 

[pelotonIQ]

So he's winning all year round from Strade Bianchi to TdL, and pretty much everything in the between, without being in top form. He is an allien then. The first homo sapiens superior. Or he's juiced to the gills/riding a moped

Now you're being disingenious, changing ''peak'' to ''top'' form it means the same 🤦Do you think Pogacar has to be at his peak to win LBL? From watching the race it didn't look close to peak Pogacar. You will see peak Pogacar in the summer vs Vingegaard.