Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Ripper]

A philosophical question. Let’s assume for a second - not necessarily with Pogacar but in general - you did have a chance to witness once in a lifetime greatness. How would you recognise it since greatness = cheating by default? What would have to happen which would make you agree something is once in a lifetime greatness?

Why does "greatness = cheating by default"? Is the question at what point can you discern between "generational talent" that is not cheating, to when there is such talent but there is also cheating?

 

[nilfen]

No in this case you poggie fanboys are the flatearthers. My kids also believe in Santa, so it's okey to believe motočar doesn't have an unfair advantage over the competition, since almost two years now.

The thing that is very annoying, that monsta makes the races almost unwatchable and then the fanboys make these days the racing threads almost unreadable. So pretty please, if you're contribution is insults on the real world part in the forum, could you kindly stay in the fairytale section 🙏🏼here is a link:

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I feel like something has been taken away from me that I value very much; the entertainment of cycling and good, intelligent discussions about cycling. If I am doing Pogacar wrong, I am sorry, but I been around cycling so long that it is not credible. And then we have the posts with "clever" one-liners and name-calling which is diminishing the sport. I wonder how people would react to Fignon if he rode these days, being an off one out.

Remember when cycling's real heroes were the ones who came in second? ;

 

[Red Rick]

Honestly a lot of Pogacar fans don't believe he's clean they just want to support the winning side and laugh at the supposed enemy, not unlike certains parallels outside of cycling.

 

[nilfen]

Honestly a lot of Pogacar fans don't believe he's clean they just want to support the winning side and laugh at the supposed enemy, not unlike certains parallels outside of cycling.

Its not longer a matter of right and wrong. Its being on the winning side and support it no matter what. Its the new religion!

 

[acm]

Just a silly (maybe?) speculation: What if Roglič told Pogačar what Visma were doing after his acrimonious breakup with the team in 2023? Pog made the leap in the 2024 off-season. I know it doesn’t serve his interests, but maybe it happened in a weak moment after being absolutely screwed by the team in 2023?

No way. Their relationship is not THAT good.

 

[Pozzovivo]

No way. Their relationship is not THAT good.

I don't think they have a good relationship at all, but Rogla got screwed by Visma. You never know if he told someone - who then told Pog for instance.

Visma riders are always flying after May training camp, while Pogacar did not really improve before the Tour compared to his spring level. But now, he also has this big level increase in May.

What is your preferred explanation? Was he clean in 19'-23' but not now or just way more dirty now?

 

[Oldman]

And you believe his not having an cheating advantage, motor or bioligical. Yeah seems you really know the sports and world. Enjoy your weekend 🤡🫡Ignorance is a bliss.

He mentioned a motor being inlikely. I don't think anyone on any of these forums believe any of the riders don't seek biological advantages. There may be a few that don't tread into the less than legal but the list would be short.

 

[E_F_]

I hope Bardet goes off tomorrow, perhaps he might even win the stage - and then zip his shirt down, show a message about how prevalent doping is, release a book instantly...

 

[Ilmaestro99]

The guy on the left is on a top doping programe by the way

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933892820537888950

View: https://x.com/Max15236/status/1933892820537888950?t=Zag3F83HWeJz8zCN-xdJMw&s=19

 

[hrotha]

Well, the UCI letting certain riders get away with stuff is a well established thing of the past.

But really it's quite simply that the current phenomena look so absurd that even absurd explanations don't look so batshit anymore.

And I would also think the UCI is very much not incentivized to catch it after the fact simply because if you catch it it kills the entire sport.

Sure, the UCI has every incentive to protect Pogačar. But it's not like anyone else has been caught with a motor, is it. So either the UCI also has an incentive to protect everyone else including Pogačar's rivals (meaning: no competitive edge), or the UCI isn't looking at all (so Pogačar's rivals are equally free to use motors, meaning: no competitive edge), or only Pogačar is using a motor because his rivals freely choose not to (which sounds pretty unlikely if they know what's going on, and in this scenario they do because motors have been used before), or Pogačar is the only one using a motor because the UCI can easily find motors and they've warned everyone else not to use them even though they all can see Pogačar is using one (which sounds like a massive leak waiting to happen), or motors are not part of the equation.

 

[nilfen]

The guy on the left is on a top doping programe by the way

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933892820537888950

View: https://x.com/Max15236/status/1933892820537888950?t=Zag3F83HWeJz8zCN-xdJMw&s=19

Wrong thread ;-)

 

[Netserk]

Honestly a lot of Pogacar fans don't believe he's clean they just want to support the winning side and laugh at the supposed enemy, not unlike certains parallels outside of cycling.

The only thing worse is wanting to support losers because they are losers. Much worse real life consequences from that.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Refuelled after a comically poor tt?

Where the *** did superman Wellens vanish to today anyway, spat out with the Chris Hamilton's of the world.

Great to see Sepp Kuss riding clean for a top WT team anyway, an inspiration.

 

[Monoxidator]

The guy on the left is on a top doping programe by the way

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933892820537888950

View: https://x.com/Max15236/status/1933892820537888950?t=Zag3F83HWeJz8zCN-xdJMw&s=19

Doped to the gills Jonas grimacing in pain while "clean" Teddy breathes through his nose and finishes looking fresh as can be while pulling away effortlessly. Pretty damning contrast.

Talent + Doping + strategic / selective motor usage.

I didn't like at all the way he was hammering at his computer during the aftermath of that attack.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Just a silly (maybe?) speculation: What if Roglič told Pogačar what Visma were doing after his acrimonious breakup with the team in 2023? Pog made the leap in the 2024 off-season. I know it doesn’t serve his interests, but maybe it happened in a weak moment after being absolutely screwed by the team in 2023?

This notion that Roglic got screwed over is so funny. Roglic received an incredible amount of support from 19-23 from some of the best riders in the entire world. Then Vuelta 2023 happened, and Roglic got really mad that he wasn't allowed to win against his buddy Kuss and left.

 

[Red Rick]

This notion that Roglic got screwed over is so funny. Roglic received an incredible amount of support from 19-23 from some of the best riders in the entire world. Then Vuelta 2023 happened, and Roglic got really mad that he wasn't allowed to win against his buddy Kuss and left.

It's funny you include 2019, really.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Just a silly (maybe?) speculation: What if Roglič told Pogačar what Visma were doing after his acrimonious breakup with the team in 2023? Pog made the leap in the 2024 off-season. I know it doesn’t serve his interests, but maybe it happened in a weak moment after being absolutely screwed by the team in 2023?

Although the past 1,5 season are simply ridiculous, Pogacar has been suspicious during the years prior. The Plateau de Beille time trial in 2020 TdF was a complete farce. The main question for me is whether he's been Gianetticized since 2018 (at the moment of siging) of 2019 (as his Vuelta performance also raised some eyebrows)

 

[Valv.Piti]

It's funny you include 2019, really.

Thats because I shouldn't have. From 2020, obviously

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Can we all agree that the biggest challenge for the UAE management will be to convince Pogacar to make it seem less obvious? Twelve stage wins in back to back GTs in 2024 weren't enough to wake the public up, but today I read more critical comments than usual.

 

[Pozzovivo]

This notion that Roglic got screwed over is so funny. Roglic received an incredible amount of support from 19-23 from some of the best riders in the entire world. Then Vuelta 2023 happened, and Roglic got really mad that he wasn't allowed to win against his buddy Kuss and left.

Before 2023, Roglič received immense support, yes. But in 2023, Roglič wanted to ride the Tour de France as a co-leader. The team told him that Vingegaard would be the sole leader, but he was still welcome on the team. That wasn’t ideal for Roglič, but it made sense from the team’s perspective.

So instead, they offered him leadership roles at the Giro and Vuelta. Roglič accepted and went on to win the Giro, even while injured. After that, he asked to ride the Tour, but management declined again. Disappointing, sure, but still within reason.

Then came the Vuelta. Roglič was set to lead, as promised. But suddenly Vingegaard also wanted to ride, and the team said, “Sure, you can be co-leader.” And the rest is history. That’s when Roglič really got screwed.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Can we all agree that the biggest challenge for the UAE management will be to convince Pogacar to make it seem less obvious? Twelve stage wins in back to back GTs in 2024 weren't enough to wake the public up, but today I read more critical comments than usual.

Pog of Greed just can't help himself.

 

[noob]

I’d want to win as much as I could. Nothing in sports is guaranteed, he could start struggling to win or an accident could derail his career. As slim as it is, this could be his last win. It’s like in team sports when one destroys the other and the losing team cries about the score, if you don’t want the score run up do something about it.

Not sure I understand. Pogacar already had an underwhelming TT this week by his standards so this statement is plainly wrong. Asking why every race shouldn't be won also seems to relate to Armstrong's 'no gifts' statement in 2004. How would Vingegaard or anyone else feel if Pogacar gifted them a win - dare I say humiliated?

I also really doubt its got anything to do with Pogacar wanting to humiliate the opposition or lacking self confidence. Pogacar was on the receiving end of such a beating just two years back.

Honestly a lot of Pogacar fans don't believe he's clean they just want to support the winning side and laugh at the supposed enemy, not unlike certains parallels outside of cycling.

Its not longer a matter of right and wrong. Its being on the winning side and support it no matter what. Its the new religion!

Thank you everyone. You explain how accurate my nickname on this forum is; I've always been the happy loser. Happy to lose so that others could win, as winning made them happy and I didn't mind losing. I can't handle competetiveness without becoming cutthroat Landis style. I can't live with myself like that. I'd rather be the happy loser.

Spoiler: Maybe like this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6m6bY5Eeg

 

[noob]

I just realized one thing; during Armstrong years was this forum full of people discussing the wistle blowers before it was obvious? Like did you people do that kind of detective work? Because that could be a clue; who in UAE would be the Landis? We already have 2 resentful leaders who are in the shadow of Pog. We also have the angry San Milan. It's not like UAE is one happy family.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

I just realized one thing; during Armstrong years was this forum full of people discussing the wistle blowers before it was obvious? Like did you people do that kind of detective work? Because that could be a clue; who in UAE would be the Landis? We already have 2 resentful leaders who are in the shadow of Pog. We also have the angry San Milan. It's not like UAE is one happy family.

I wondered about that as well. Who at UAE knows what's really going on? It has to be a selective group.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I just realized one thing; during Armstrong years was this forum full of people discussing the wistle blowers before it was obvious? Like did you people do that kind of detective work? Because that could be a clue; who in UAE would be the Landis? We already have 2 resentful leaders who are in the shadow of Pog. We also have the angry San Milan. It's not like UAE is one happy family.

I think before the forum came online there was already a lot of stuff on Lance. Like the three positive tests that couldn't be used because they got rid of the B-samples.

The thing with "a Landis" is that it's a difference if someone just is the stronger leader and you're unhappy about it, or if they are straight up terrorists like Lance was. Of course we don't know what exactly is going on behind the scenes, but Lace did shovel his own grave by being the *** he was.