Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[dr.eve]

Here is another one: "is it an issue for you, as a clean athlete, racing for Mauro Gianetti, who has a shady history himself when it comes to racing, and of course famously has led numerous teams where there were doping scandals? Please expand on your answers"

No no can't ask that anymore. I am told, on this forum, the time to ask these questions has expired. Never knew it worked that way, but it does kind of really explain why people like Gianetti are still active in procycling.

Besides that we have the old fashioned excuses: but they all did it so it doesn't matter, okay except Armstrong.

 

[Divergence]

I find this thread a bit boring now that the moto-doping allegations subsided. There are one or two forum members who are still beating that drum but we are finally back to the plain old conventional doping. Of course, there are those who read a couple of papers and are championing the gene modification possibility, but, as I wrote above, it is pretty much back to normal in this thread. Thing were getting wild around FW .

 

[thetdog666]

I find this thread a bit boring now that the moto-doping allegations subsided. There are one or two forum members who are still beating that drum but we are finally back to the plain old conventional doping. Of course, there are those who read a couple of papers and are championing the gene modification possibility, but, as I wrote above, it is pretty much back to normal in this thread. Thing were getting wild around FW .

Motors in wheel hub. You heard it here first. After team Sky using motors and dominating someone found out and now everyone uses one

 

[E_F_]

Motors in wheel hub. You heard it here first. After team Sky using motors and dominating someone found out and now everyone uses one

I'm afraid you were already one of the drum-beaters...

 

[peterfin]

I find this thread a bit boring now that the moto-doping allegations subsided. There are one or two forum members who are still beating that drum but we are finally back to the plain old conventional doping. Of course, there are those who read a couple of papers and are championing the gene modification possibility, but, as I wrote above, it is pretty much back to normal in this thread. Thing were getting wild around FW .

And still the Divergence is upon us. Motors will be talk of the town in no time. Lets hope Pogacar gets an upgrade for the Vuelta so he does decide to start. He can feel like a real Benidorm Bastard now he talks about retiring. His joy and smile will be back for sure!

 

[topcat]

UCI are only allowing Pog one motor now because uber dominance and screaming GOAT has become old. He will retire when they take away his last motor.
QED

 

[Unchained]

Here is another one: "is it an issue for you, as a clean athlete, racing for Mauro Gianetti, who has a shady history himself when it comes to racing, and of course famously has led numerous teams where there were doping scandals? Please expand on your answers"

Combo answer to both of your excellent, and considerate posts...Pogacar has zero responsibility to speak for everyone.. Full stop.. He has no responsibility as some on the spot randomly selected unelected spokesman for all clean cyclists, all clean professional athletes.. Full stop.. It's not his job.. Silly huge down side for saying anything. If he commented about what people are doing what people are thinking slippery no win ,slippery slope. Same with commenting about something that happened in 2012 or before on a team he doesn't know, riders and staff he doesn't know.. Absolutely crazy, insane to comment on that!!
And as far as real life, instead of imaginary scenarios.. Please show me any comments made about Giannetti about his weight, wattage output, show me an example..1 example of Giannetti getting interviewed while training, eating, at an airport, at a training camp..1 example. Social media was in it's infancy when Giannetti was riding.. The amount of media good or bad that Giannetti and Pogacar have been exposed to is a completely different world.. To say media is going easy on Pogacar, it's simply disproved on YouTube or message boards like this.. How many thousands of people trashed Giannetti when drug use was exposed.. Compared to Pogacar who has never even been accused, he has been tested since he was a junior not even a suspect test, long,long before any affiliation with UAE. If you can square it with facts I am all ears, but for the most part, it's some kind of intense, bitter ,broken hearts about the level of deception, disappointment, and hurt people still feel after what Lance Armstrong did.. Lance crushed people and it's obvious that his lying and associated defensive behaviors have people angry to this day and from comments the anger and disappointment that Armstrong generated are not going to subside ,maybe ever.

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/3P-2R2OZxy8

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/JGkGR85lY3k

 

[dr.eve]

Combo answer to both of your excellent, and considerate posts...Pogacar has zero responsibility to speak for everyone.. Full stop.. He has no responsibility as some on the spot randomly selected unelected spokesman for all clean cyclists, all clean professional athletes.. Full stop.. It's not his job.. Silly huge down side for saying anything. If he commented about what people are doing what people are thinking slippery no win ,slippery slope. Same with commenting about something that happened in 2012 or before on a team he doesn't know, riders and staff he doesn't know.. Absolutely crazy, insane to comment on that!!
And as far as real life, instead of imaginary scenarios.. Please show me any comments made about Giannetti about his weight, wattage output, show me an example..1 example of Giannetti getting interviewed while training, eating, at an airport, at a training camp..1 example. Social media was in it's infancy when Giannetti was riding.. The amount of media good or bad that Giannetti and Pogacar have been exposed to is a completely different world.. To say media is going easy on Pogacar, it's simply disproved on YouTube or message boards like this.. How many thousands of people trashed Giannetti when drug use was exposed.. Compared to Pogacar who has never even been accused, he has been tested since he was a junior not even a suspect test, long,long before any affiliation with UAE. If you can square it with facts I am all ears, but for the most part, it's some kind of intense, bitter ,broken hearts about the level of deception, disappointment, and hurt people still feel after what Lance Armstrong did.. Lance crushed people and it's obvious that his lying and associated defensive behaviors have people angry to this day and from comments the anger and disappointment that Armstrong generated are not going to subside ,maybe ever.

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/3P-2R2OZxy8

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/JGkGR85lY3k

I think I shouldn't reply to you because you seem very agitated to say the least.

But I am very curious, why do you think a rider has no responsibility for its trainer or manager? (And vice versa for that matter)
I mean that is what you are saying right? I kind of don't understand what you're saying but you say you are answering Ripper's question which wondered if Pogacar would have an issue having a manager with an extensive doping history.

 

[Unchained]

I think I shouldn't reply to you because you seem very agitated to say the least.

But I am very curious, why do you think a rider has no responsibility for its trainer or manager? (And vice versa for that matter)
I mean that is what you are saying right? I kind of don't understand what you're saying but you say you are answering Ripper's question which wondered if Pogacar would have an issue having a manager with an extensive doping history.

I certainly would never ever say that ,have never remotely said anything that Pogacar should not take personal responsibility for his training, medical care, which would include anything he takes, medication or alternative medicine. Pogacar should also take full responsibility for anything that his coaching staff or support personnel use during massage or therapy sessions.. All of that falls under the personal oversight of Tadej Pogacar..

He would be an absolute idiot to comment on other riders medical treatments, medicines, training they do, drugs they do or don't take, what they are thinking, thoughts that their trainers have, if they are clean or doped.. Absolutely the pinnacle of stupidity for him to speak about or for other people.
Massive mistake to comment about anything Ineos or @2012 circa Sky!

Tadej is responsible for anything that goes on or in his body, he is also responsible to know if any respiratory training or treatments he does personally or is directed to do by team management. In 2025( well before!!) I didn't know.. It was an accident, got it from toilet seat, tainted meat, ect are no longer valid excuses.

 

[Unchained]

At this point in professional cycling if riders are engaged in illegal conduct or in violation of racing rules there is zero reason not to know. And 99% of all drugs made have identifiable sequences that can be picked up in modern laboratory testing, so if you are taking one of @70+ common substances used as a PED, if not found in A sample will most likely be caught in B sample secondary test.

Curious why the winning Cervelo on Sunday would have not set off alarms far and wide for not only design, but use and performance of the bicycle!! Pogacar under constant surveillance and speculation about motor doping, with hundreds making hypothesis about his newly recognized talent of staying in the saddle during intense efforts.
What we saw Sunday, was Wout Van Aert ,drop and destroy Tadej without ever standing up going uphill on an uneven wet paver grade road surface, Once Wout was clear ,road got bit rougher, but while seated he increased the gap significantly in a short duration.
Closer look at Cervelo, bottom bracket, downtube, seat tube confluence shows a diameter equal to a 2 liter soda bottle in diameter.. So if there was suspicion over large useable cavities used to conceal something, almost nothing written, not shade or doubt thrown at the beloved Belgian.. Why not? Free pass for one guy and heavy metal sized criticism for skinny Slovenian? What gives!?
Wouldn't be surprised if Wout's bike has same bottom bracket shell dimensions of many, many e bikes.

 

[noob]

I certainly would never ever say that ,have never remotely said anything that Pogacar should not take personal responsibility for his training, medical care, which would include anything he takes, medication or alternative medicine. Pogacar should also take full responsibility for anything that his coaching staff or support personnel use during massage or therapy sessions.. All of that falls under the personal oversight of Tadej Pogacar..

He would be an absolute idiot to comment on other riders medical treatments, medicines, training they do, drugs they do or don't take, what they are thinking, thoughts that their trainers have, if they are clean or doped.. Absolutely the pinnacle of stupidity for him to speak about or for other people.
Massive mistake to comment about anything Ineos or @2012 circa Sky!

Tadej is responsible for anything that goes on or in his body, he is also responsible to know if any respiratory training or treatments he does personally or is directed to do by team management. In 2025( well before!!) I didn't know.. It was an accident, got it from toilet seat, tainted meat, ect are no longer valid excuses.

1. no one has any business asking anyone doping questions unless they failed a doping test.
2. Only the specific rider who failed a test can be questioned? You can't ask a teammate, DS or sponsor?

Have I understood you correctly?

 

[pelotonIQ]

First off, why wasn't any of the Ineos riders asked about Rozman, but Pogacar was?
Secondly, It's a slippery slope for Pogacar to answer such questions that have nothing to do with him, this will encourage other journalists to ask similar dumb questions in the future if they see that Pogacar has an indifferent demeanour towards this type of questioning.

 

[topt]

We don't have the data showing that every winning bike goes in to an x-ray. We don't even have the info that the x-ray is moved to every stage finish and is used.

I assume there is a necessity to believe there are no motors used simply because it has a much bigger negative impact on the sport than the usual doping stuff. I get that. However, without evidence to show us that it definitely doesn't happen, it has equal value as that guy today on the Ventoux that passed by me and kept yelling that the Earth is flat.

you all live in a conspiracy movie; you think we are lying by doing Xrays; My god; most UCI refs have to be on the take, me included; I really dont know what to say anymore...

 

[topt]

I kinda find this a little queer about professional cycling. I don't know of any other sport where known, possibly convicted, dopers get to hang on to their previous profession and are not looked down upon or simply cast out.

Let's say you were busted for cheating in another sport, take Pete Rose for example in baseball. Guy was ended, completely ended and it's arguable that he didn't actually cheat. Let's take another look at our modern way of living. Let's say someone goes on a rant against a 'protected' social or racial group, their career is ended. They are probably doxxed into being unable to financially support themselves via the internet and social media.

Professional cycling however... Other than Lance and Floyd, who else has been ostracized to this extent? The names don't readily come to my mind, admittedly I am an armchair fan compared to most here. Hell, Cippolini has an entire bicycle company. Wasn't Richard Virenque (sp?) still involved with French cycling in some capacities. Riis??

If you're going to cheat in a sport, cycling is probably the most forgiving in the long run.

This is absolute and total BS (how many examples you want from athletics ?), also you better check what known doping doctors are doing now; i know one of them was a doctor for a spanish footbal club.

 

[topt]

First off, why wasn't any of the Ineos riders asked about Rozman, but Pogacar was?
Secondly, It's a slippery slope for Pogacar to answer such questions that have nothing to do with him, this will encourage other journalists to ask similar dumb questions in the future if they see that Pogacar has an indifferent demeanour towards this type of questioning

dont you know, they were born 16km apart, he he he; thats all the proof you need

 

[topt]

You use the word evidence, but I think you mean "proof". Because there is lots of evidence being discussed. Some of it is pretty damning (thinking of the Sky mess right now), some less so, and some really is hanging on by a thread. Is it proof? Well, once it is proof there is no more debate.

So, back to Big Mig - there is a fair bit of evidence it was not all talent and training. But of course it was not proven. But is it really a point of debate of what Big Mig was up to? I mean, that was a long, long time ago.

what exactly is pretty daming ?

 

[peterfin]

you all live in a conspiracy movie; you think we are lying by doing Xrays; My god; most UCI refs have to be on the take, me included; I really dont know what to say anymore...

So you are involved in checking the X-ray data?

 

[topt]

So you are involved in checking the X-ray data?

i am checking bikes with tablet ( not biggest pro tour races) so I have to be on the take

 

[topt]

Have you ever believed that Indurain used EPO, but then at some point stopped believing it? I'm guessing that's not the case, due to the amount of "circumstantial evidence". It's the same thing with Pogacar. If you're convinced he's doing something illegal, you don't just stop believing that after a while, the same way you don't all of a sudden think OJ was innocent 20 years later.

so he is guilty, the cycling experts on clinic decided so

 

[peterfin]

i am checking bikes with tablet ( not biggest pro tour races) so I have to be on the take

So your claim is not true. You don't check the X-ray data. The tablet has its limits as I told you before. You won't capture a pro team. They have their own tablet. They will make sure the motor is installed and used in a way that you can't detect anything.

 

[ontheroad]

Just seeing that Pogacar interview and a few things struck me. He’s not a very good liar unlike say Lance who found that part easy and had an ability to make the interviewer feel like an idiot for asking the question.

I don’t for one moment believe his answers but you’re not going to hear him proclaim to a journalist that he’s not worth the chair he is sitting on or that he feels sorry for the doubters. With UAE there is a lot less pretence than Sky or to a lesser extent Jumbo who put a large emphasis on PR and the holier than thou attitude which definitely rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way. By doing so it often felt as though they were trying to insult people’s intelligence with all the marginal gains talk. With UAE, given the links to Giannetti and the performance spikes in their riders, there is no doubt that they are getting plenty of magic fuel. Yet the amazing thing is that all we have is speculation and innuendo based on performances and Giannettis history. That despite Pogacars utter dominance of the sport.

The other thing that struck me in the interview was the fact that David Walsh asked Pogacar the 2nd softball question about whether he would ride his bike in the immediate aftermath of the Tour. Which given the fact that he helped take down Lance and was then subsequently embedded with Team Sky whilst Rozman worked with them, just shows the hypocrisy of the press based on whether they like a rider or not. He went after Armstrong with a vengeance but has played the game ever since.

Personally I find Pogacar and Vingegaard for that matter to be likeable individuals off the bike, however given the history of the sport any yellow jersey winner should expect to have to answer questions about doping. In fact they should be welcomed if the winner was clean and doubts were being cast on the merits of their achievements. But it appears as though the omertà is now stronger than it has been for a generation and the press and media are largely complicit in selling this utopian dream.

 

[peterfin]

At this point in professional cycling if riders are engaged in illegal conduct or in violation of racing rules there is zero reason not to know. And 99% of all drugs made have identifiable sequences that can be picked up in modern laboratory testing, so if you are taking one of @70+ common substances used as a PED, if not found in A sample will most likely be caught in B sample secondary test.

Curious why the winning Cervelo on Sunday would have not set off alarms far and wide for not only design, but use and performance of the bicycle!! Pogacar under constant surveillance and speculation about motor doping, with hundreds making hypothesis about his newly recognized talent of staying in the saddle during intense efforts.
What we saw Sunday, was Wout Van Aert ,drop and destroy Tadej without ever standing up going uphill on an uneven wet paver grade road surface, Once Wout was clear ,road got bit rougher, but while seated he increased the gap significantly in a short duration.
Closer look at Cervelo, bottom bracket, downtube, seat tube confluence shows a diameter equal to a 2 liter soda bottle in diameter.. So if there was suspicion over large useable cavities used to conceal something, almost nothing written, not shade or doubt thrown at the beloved Belgian.. Why not? Free pass for one guy and heavy metal sized criticism for skinny Slovenian? What gives!?
Wouldn't be surprised if Wout's bike has same bottom bracket shell dimensions of many, many e bikes.

Because Wout is a wattage monster that has been riding up cobbled roads and difficult, dirty hills in CX since his teens? You can't compare this with a 40 min 7 w/kg effort.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Oh look. There are consequences for allowing one person and team to dominate. Pogacar is eating cycling and the public literally aren’t buying it. Particularly significant is the fall of viewing figures in traditional cycling countries. They know the sport and they don’t like what they’re seeing. Interestingly viewing figures for this year’s Giro actually went up from last year. Because, no doubt, at least it was competitive. The narrative from the media that we should feel privileged to watch what is being served up is falling pretty flat.

View: https://youtu.be/fCUTclg-R1M?si=akQFj2vHfzE-Wkbw

 

[topt]

So your claim is not true. You don't check the X-ray data. The tablet has its limits as I told you before. You won't capture a pro team. They have their own tablet. They will make sure the motor is installed and used in a way that you can't detect anything.

i never claimed I am present at x ray but my boss is and I do trust him. You do know how many different people on many different races are present at x rays, so they all have to be on take; I wish you could see that live and you would know this claims UCI is somehow in on this is insane.
I get its possible to somehow hide positive doping test cause not many people are involved but this, just no way

 

[topt]

Oh look. There are consequences for allowing one person and team to dominate. Pogacar is eating cycling and the public literally aren’t buying it. Particularly significant is the fall of viewing figures in traditional cycling countries. They know the sport and they don’t like what they’re seeing. Interestingly viewing figures for this year’s Giro actually went up from last year. Because, no doubt, at least it was competitive. The narrative from the media that we should feel privileged to watch what is being served up is falling pretty flat.

View: https://youtu.be/fCUTclg-R1M?si=akQFj2vHfzE-Wkbw

traditional cycling countries
could it be cause they are not winning...