Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Red Rick]

Irrelevant. The point is the ''doping'' watts he produces only becomes an issue with people when Pogacar wins and not when he loses which leads to believe that this is anti-Pogacar related rather anti-doping.

These "it's just because he's winning" arguments are always more like confessions rather than solid arguments.

 

[pelotonIQ]

These "it's just because he's winning" arguments are always more like confessions rather than solid arguments.

I have never seen you talk about his watts whenever he loses. I appreciate you proving me right.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Most winningest rider at the time gets the most posts about them in the clinic, this is how it's always been.

Sort forum by descending amount of replies

Lance/USADA
Froome/Sky
Pogacar
Vingegaard
Richie Porte for some reason

 

[aphronesis]

Irrelevant. The point is the ''doping'' watts he produces only becomes an issue with people when Pogacar wins and not when he loses which leads to believe that this is anti-Pogacar related rather anti-doping. This is how I see it, similar pattern.

Pogacar won his first 2 Tours (immediately called a doper on this forum)
Jonas won the next 2 Tours (library silence)
Pogacar wins his 3rd and 4th Tour (back to calling him a doper)

Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

Time for his own clinic-thread.

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[pelotonIQ]

When was the last time he truly lost (not in contention) since 2023?
2022 was the last year he looked somewhat normal.

He put up better numbers in 2022 TdF than he did 20' and 21'. Elaborate on how he ''somewhat looked normal''.

 

[Bronstein]

Irrelevant. The point is the ''doping'' watts he produces only becomes an issue with people when Pogacar wins and not when he loses which leads to believe that this is anti-Pogacar related rather anti-doping. This is how I see it, similar pattern.

Pogacar won his first 2 Tours (immediately called a doper on this forum)
Jonas won the next 2 Tours (library silence)
Pogacar wins his 3rd and 4th Tour (back to calling him a doper)

As someone else has pointed out, there is a Vingegaard thread that was started in July 2022. So 'library silence' is complete nonsense. For the record, Vingegaard is also an obvious doper.

 

[pelotonIQ]

As someone else has pointed out, there is a Vingegaard thread that was started in July 2022. So 'library silence' is complete nonsense. For the record, Vingegaard is also an obvious doper.

The Vingegaard comparison is just an example. The main point was that whenever Pogacar loses, this thread becomes quiet despite Pogacar pushing these so called ''doping watts''. Pogacar wins = doper. Pogacar loses = meh.

Same with Toro, he held maglia rosa and won a stage = doper. Later lost GC = meh.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Irrelevant. The point is the ''doping'' watts he produces only becomes an issue with people when Pogacar wins and not when he loses which leads to believe that this is anti-Pogacar related rather anti-doping. This is how I see it, similar pattern.

Pogacar won his first 2 Tours (immediately called a doper on this forum)
Jonas won the next 2 Tours (library silence)
Pogacar wins his 3rd and 4th Tour (back to calling him a doper)

Yeah... that's what you get when a 20-year old without a time trial pedigree suddenly beats the best TT riders in the world.
That same guy distanced the best climbers in the world by 3 minutes in 15 km on route to Grand Bornand.
It's beyond ridiculous.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

The Vingegaard comparison is just an example. The main point was that whenever Pogacar loses, this thread becomes quiet despite Pogacar pushing these so called ''doping watts''. Pogacar wins = doper. Pogacar loses = meh.

Nah... we still think he's a doper when he loses as well. It's been obvious for years.

 

[Red Rick]

Most winningest rider at the time gets the most posts about them in the clinic, this is how it's always been.

Sort forum by descending amount of replies

Lance/USADA
Froome/Sky
Pogacar
Vingegaard
Richie Porte for some reason

Not completely.

There's a clear emphasis for riders that stand out more due to a background that arouses suspicion, or due to sheer ridiculousness.

Also, I would think the majority of Clinic users is more of the belief that doping is common but there's some riders that either obviously outdope the rest or get explicit benefits connections to the right people in the right places, which enables them to outdope others with impunity. So even within the paradigm that "everyone dopes" that doesn't mean all is fair.

Also, a lot of very succesful riders have rather moderately sized threads because they didn't often win due to raw power, or because they didn't have heaps of fans denying there was anything going on.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Very curious pattern whenever Pogacar wins this thread blows up and when he loses this thread is as quiet as a library despite Pogacar pushing the same ''doping'' numbers you all claim. Paris-Roubaix 2025.

Please explain the mindset whereby somebody would consider a performance in which a habitual winner is beaten the appropriate event to consider his performance to be dodgy.

 

[Low is rhe new high]

I have never seen you talk about his watts whenever he loses. I appreciate you proving me right.

There was a lot of talk about if he was using a motor after the PR crash Is it releavant to talk about watts if that is the case?

 

[KoopaCycling]

He put up better numbers in 2022 TdF than he did 20' and 21'. Elaborate on how he ''somewhat looked normal''.

Sounds clear enough, not quite normal but still looked somewhat normal. Enough to possible pass the vibe test when you squint. Before uae and him went completely off the charts. I remember them explaining his increase in performance by telling the world he switched training methods.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Please explain the mindset whereby somebody would consider a performance in which a habitual winner is beaten the appropriate event to consider his performance to be dodgy.

Are you saying that appropiate doping accusations are determined by the amount of wins a rider has instead of w/kg said rider produces?

 

[aphronesis]

Are you saying that appropiate doping accusations are determined by the amount of wins a rider has instead of w/kg said rider produces?

Why make it an either or? The larger point might be that focus shifts toward the winner while maintaining the premise that their near peers are also. Just because fans object and make noise for a few minutes, the base premises haven’t changed that much with regard to the elite field.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Are you saying that appropiate doping accusations are determined by the amount of wins a rider has instead of w/kg said rider produces?

I am saying that extreme differences between his performance on a given day and what of the rest of the best cyclists in the world do is what raises suspicions; you are asking why suspicions are not raised on the days when he is no better than some others.

You seem to be asking why a teacher does not consider a test in which the best mathematician in the class gets a lower score than his/her peers as evidence that he might have sneaked a calculator into the room.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Richie Porte for some reason

Clinic legend juicing himself to 8 w/kg for some Aussie regional races and then sacking it off for the rest of the year.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Anyway today it was like watching wwe hell in a cell or something like that. By goddd, it's pocagar, with a steel chair!!! And that doesn't make me feel good

 

[redmond9]

Very curious pattern whenever Pogacar wins this thread blows up and when he loses this thread is as quiet as a library despite Pogacar pushing the same ''doping'' numbers you all claim. Paris-Roubaix 2025.

Firstly liking any given rider doesn't absolve them of scrutiny, Vindegaards tdf timetrial in 2023 was simply unbelievable.
Astana have always been suspect with Vino at the helm . Remco Mdvp and van aert have been super human. You could go on ... Basically just like swimming athletics etc cycling in riddled with suspicious athletes and performances, and given that any rider who wins at the rate Pog does is going to be criticised and viewed as deeply suspicious. What sets him apart however is his adaptability, Vindegaard Is 60kg ish built for long climbs...hasn't beaten pog for 2 years...also can't win anything other than gt's . Mdvp is 75kg+ p born and raised eith a monuments skill set now likely won't win a monument this year ....and will never win a gt....yet Pog can do all. I feel sad that if he"s the goat i can't believe but I'm around too long to feel naive enough to suspend belief however nice and exciting the guy is to watch.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Clinic legend juicing himself to 8 w/kg for some Aussie regional races and then sacking it off for the rest of the year.

He wasn't sacking off as much he was crashing out.

Pogačar never really loses in the way we see other riders do (being outside the podium or the top 10), so of course his thread will never be quiet. He also has a lot of fans that will help keep the posts count up, unlike Vingegaard, for instance, who has few fans, of which the main one has been dead for half a year according to Tim Cahill's rules.

 

[Saint Unix]

I have never seen you talk about his watts whenever he loses. I appreciate you proving me right.

If a rider produces questionable to downright unbelievable watts at any point in his career the scrutiny is justified. Your argument is basically "he can't have robbed a bank on Tuesday because he sat at home all day on Thursday!"

 

[burning]

He wasn't sacking off as much he was crashing out.

Pogačar never really loses in the way we see other riders do (being outside the podium or the top 10), so of course his thread will never be quiet. He also has a lot of fans that will help keep the posts count up, unlike Vingegaard, for instance, who has few fans, of which the main one has been dead for half a year according to Tim Cahill's rules.

I struggle to see his fans here and I don't see many folks here claiming hes not doping

 

[canina82]

Special shoutout to the belgian commentator who was also gushing over Armstrong back in the day.
The man was drooling .

It's normal. Belgians can't tolerate the fact their wonderboy can't keep up with Pogacar for 5 seconds.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Thaenk God they put a stop to oerir lazkano before it was too late. His performances were getting out of hand.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I struggle to see his fans here and I don't see many folks here claiming hes not doping

The user that instigated this discussion is one, and his post has led to multiple responses. The same of course goes for the non-clinic thread where haters like me contribute a lot, too.