Taking clenbuterol

[hrotha]

When Contador's case first broke out, the first reaction of many people, including me, was to find out what the hell clenbuterol was and whether it was used in cycling. People asked questions about how it was taken, for what purposes and in what doses, and how detectable it was. This has been going on for months, but most posts specifically about clenbuterol (and not about clenbuterol in Contador's case) came early, when we only had a very fragmented picture, so I think some sort of recap would be useful. So, for the purposes of this thread let's forget about Contador. What do we know about clen use?

Clen use appears to be widespread. Willy Voet used it, Vandenbroucke's dog used it, Landis suggested it's a common PED and pretty much every piece of info we've seen these past months points in that direction. But how was it used, for example, in the late 90s? And in the late 00s? Clen has bronchodilator and anabolic effects in the right doses. Was it ever used for that? Has it always been so easily detectable as it is now? Has its main purpose always been weight loss? Has it always been a PED you take out of competition exclusively? Did Festina use it in competition?

Any other sort of info (confirmed users, revelations by ex-pros, positive tests from back in the day, detected clen levels in the past, etc) would be welcome.

 

[Cobblestones]

There's not really much to say about clen which hasn't been said.

It's a very old and common ped. I remember athletes being busted with clen 20+ years ago. It has also been used extensively in the meat industry since it promotes growth of the desired lean meat (which kind of explains the effect as ped in athletes).

I haven't seen many clen busts for a long time, but for some reason it's making a comeback. My suspicion is that maybe it's used together with something else, where the effects of the second (to me unknown) ped multiplies the effect of clen. Otherwise I don't see why it should make this unexpected renaissance.

ETA: since yo asked for confirmed use: here's a fairly famous sprinter (in her days).

 

[flicker]

There's not really much to say about clen which hasn't been said.

It's a very old and common ped. I remember athletes being busted with clen 20+ years ago. It has also been used extensively in the meat industry since it promotes the desired lean meat (which kind of explains the effect as ped in athletes).

I haven't seen many clen busts for a long time, but for some reason it's making a comeback. My suspicion is that maybe it's used together with something else, where the effects of the second (to me unknown) ped multiplies the effect of clen. Otherwise I don't see why it should make this unexpected renaissance.

I agree. Papp said here he tried Clen and it was no good, but he probably wasn't in that drugs possible poly drug amplification loop of knowledge.

 

[Cobblestones]

Cutting Edge Muscle on clen.

 

[flicker]

Cutting Edge Muscle on clen.

Clen seems like a very unhealthy substance to ingest.

 

[runninboy]

When Contador's case first broke out, the first reaction of many people, including me, was to find out what the hell clenbuterol was and whether it was used in cycling. People asked questions about how it was taken, for what purposes and in what doses, and how detectable it was. This has been going on for months, but most posts specifically about clenbuterol (and not about clenbuterol in Contador's case) came early, when we only had a very fragmented picture, so I think some sort of recap would be useful. So, for the purposes of this thread let's forget about Contador. What do we know about clen use?

Clen use appears to be widespread. Willy Voet used it, Vandenbroucke's dog used it, Landis suggested it's a common PED and pretty much every piece of info we've seen these past months points in that direction. But how was it used, for example, in the late 90s? And in the late 00s? Clen has bronchodilator and anabolic effects in the right doses. Was it ever used for that? Has it always been so easily detectable as it is now? Has its main purpose always been weight loss? Has it always been a PED you take out of competition exclusively? Did Festina use it in competition?

Any other sort of info (confirmed users, revelations by ex-pros, positive tests from back in the day, detected clen levels in the past, etc) would be welcome.

These are great questions. One of the things that puzzles me is also that just because an athlete has an amount in his urine that is not neccessarily relative to the amount ingested.
Just as an example, a member of my family is taking a drug where 70 percent of the drug is excreted renally and 30 percent metabolized. However those numbers can be altered easily by using the drug in combination with another drug.
So this might be where the drug cheats are ahead of the testers. The drugs are developed for a specific purpose, not to work as a PED for a healthy athlete. So the drug companies are not exploring combining with other drugs with the goal of enhancing a healthy athlete's performance.
But obviously other people might be doing just that.
So when tests are run on the urine we don't know for sure that a drug like clenbuterol hasnt been combined with something else to enhance absorbtion.

 

[BullsFan22]

Well, I guess the smart money is to by a bunch of really good cattle and tend to them. Once they are ready, you can start carbo-loading.

 

[Cloxxki]

Well, I guess the smart money is to by a bunch of really good cattle and tend to them. Once they are ready, you can start carbo-loading.

Except, good meat is low on carbs, which is why meat is good for an athlete in the first place (well, the protein content especially).

But yeah.

Cloxxki
- Digs the newly available low-carb bread that has 25% Protein, 16% Carbs, and 11% Fat. And it tastes good.

 

[ergmonkey]

I remember a lot of talk about clenbuterol likely having been used as part of a pre-Tour weight loss protocol.

The clenbuterol might not be "performance enhancing" per se in the doses used (i.e. no increased power output or endurance), but instead the drug would allow a rider to shed the difficult last few pounds without decreasing power output, lean muscle mass, or otherwise undoing the weight loss benefits through losses in strength.

Sorry for not posting any links--I'm feeling pretty lazy...

 

[Dallas_]

Clen

Clenbuterol was first used to treat horses suffering from equine asthma. This is its only legal use in Australia, USA and most countries in Europe.

The private use of Clen in Canada and the UK is legal, even though supplying it in the UK is illegal.

Clenbuterol is a steroid like substance, but not a steroid.

Clenbuterol can be interpreted to act like a stimulant, such as ephedrine and amphetamines.

Alleged that Clenbuterol is the slimming drug of choice in Hollywood. Clen can also be referred to as the 'size zero pill'


source http://www.superskinnyme.com/Clenbuterol.html

cheers

 

[Johnalex13]

clen is VERY popular with bodybuilders. Also Tren is similar and used for the same purpose. All can be fairly dangerous.

It is good for getting lean while keeping the muscle on. There is actually a legal 'rip off' of it called Dren.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mhp/dren.html

 

[nevada]

Most pro and pro-continental riders (and as perhaps most serious cyclists)have a knowledge of drugs that would put a pharmacist to shame. Clen has been used for ages - mainly pre-season to shed those pounds.

I'd be interested to know how many dope tests take place pre-season v's during the season.

 

[Hmmmmm]

These are great questions. One of the things that puzzles me is also that just because an athlete has an amount in his urine that is not neccessarily relative to the amount ingested.
Just as an example, a member of my family is taking a drug where 70 percent of the drug is excreted renally and 30 percent metabolized. However those numbers can be altered easily by using the drug in combination with another drug.
So this might be where the drug cheats are ahead of the testers. The drugs are developed for a specific purpose, not to work as a PED for a healthy athlete. So the drug companies are not exploring combining with other drugs with the goal of enhancing a healthy athlete's performance.
But obviously other people might be doing just that.
So when tests are run on the urine we don't know for sure that a drug like clenbuterol hasnt been combined with something else to enhance absorbtion.

I remember a lot of talk about clenbuterol likely having been used as part of a pre-Tour weight loss protocol.

The clenbuterol might not be "performance enhancing" per se in the doses used (i.e. no increased power output or endurance), but instead the drug would allow a rider to shed the difficult last few pounds without decreasing power output, lean muscle mass, or otherwise undoing the weight loss benefits through losses in strength.

Sorry for not posting any links--I'm feeling pretty lazy...

Two good points. Small amounts detected through testing do not necesarilly mean the amount taken into the body was a "small amount". It just means a small amount was detected - that's it.

I think the second point is extremely relative to Contador. Thin and lean, wanting to eek out as much power output as possible but his weight already being low, clen would allow him to flirt with his threshold of maintaining power, staying lean, eating large amounts to maintain nutrition, and keeping the weight off.

 

[Ferminal]

AICAR has been talked about here in the past, does it have a similar effect to clen?

 

[thirteen]

does anyone think AC could have been using it for his allergies as well? like ephedrine?

i mean he would obviously know the main use of clen (weight loss) but if also relieved his allergies, it makes it even more likely it was in his system...

(i've taken allergy medicine for my entire life and *nothing* works as good as the stuff with ephedrine -- unfortunately. i was actually prescribed one of them when i was nine years old )

anyways, just a thought.

 

[forty four]

Except, good meat is low on carbs, which is why meat is good for an athlete in the first place (well, the protein content especially).

But yeah.

Cloxxki
- Digs the newly available low-carb bread that has 25% Protein, 16% Carbs, and 11% Fat. And it tastes good.

yes but what makes cows grow plant matter/carbohydrates lol.

 

[Aapjes]

AICAR has been talked about here in the past, does it have a similar effect to clen?

AICAR converts fast musles to slow muscles. Clen does the opposite in rat studies, although I'm not sure whether the doses that athletes get are enough to produce that effect.

 

[Oldman]

There's not really much to say about clen which hasn't been said.

It's a very old and common ped. I remember athletes being busted with clen 20+ years ago. It has also been used extensively in the meat industry since it promotes growth of the desired lean meat (which kind of explains the effect as ped in athletes).

I haven't seen many clen busts for a long time, but for some reason it's making a comeback. My suspicion is that maybe it's used together with something else, where the effects of the second (to me unknown) ped multiplies the effect of clen. Otherwise I don't see why it should make this unexpected renaissance.

ETA: since yo asked for confirmed use: here's a fairly famous sprinter (in her days).

In the 80's and 90's there was a rush for athletes to get a TUE for excercise-induced asthma medications/inhalers. Getting one for both Albuterol and Clenbuerol seemed to be the goal. At that time in lieu of the bio-passport there were threshold "levels" of synthetic androgens that were considered acceptable (now much, much lower because of available testing). Human testosterone was considered on the same basis, I'm told and that the inhalers would be an acceptable explanation for potential above-level readings for 'roids.
I don't know if Clenbuterol is a current inhalant for asthma as most seem to contain Prednezone (sp?) and Albuterol, but I'm not a doctor so it would be nice to update the appropriate compounds. Advair is a low-level steriod inhalant that is a dry powder and major prescription drug that is usable with a TUE.
Back to Clen; assuming it has little use for performance enhancement it is still likely a masking agent. Any smarter people know what, if anything it could conceal?

 

[hrotha]

Thanks for your responses, guys. I'm surprised that there are so few cycling-related clenbuterol stories, though. I imagined Manzano might have mentioned it but I haven't had any luck. Other than "its use is widespread" I still don't know much about how exactly it's used among the pros. From what I gather from your links, all them bodybuilders seem to use it to burn fat, and I suppose that's the most probable use among cyclists too (I think it was Joe Papp who said there are far more efficient and more or less legal [or easy to get a TUE for] products if you wanted the bronchodilator effect).

 

[Stingray34]

Alleged that Clenbuterol is the slimming drug of choice in Hollywood. Clen can also be referred to as the 'size zero pill'

I thought as much. I've wondered how actors bulk up then slim down so easily and quikly after their roles. A good example is Jared Leto. He got really fat for the film 'Chapter 27' where he played Mark Chapman, John Lennon's killer. He was so fat he was unrecognisable. When it came time to do promo for the movie, he was his normal, svelte self. My fist thought was clenbuterol. Not saying he did it, but I have to imagine they would receive a little pharmalogical help. The promise of it would be a motivation to take the role in the first place. What would happen if these people couldn't get back to normal? Their careers would be finished.

 

[Dallas_]

Performance enhancing with Clen

Clenbuterol properties, regarding performance enhancing


Increases aerobic capacity.

Increases oxygen transportation.

Stimulates the central nervous system.

source http://www.bigmonster.org/index.php?q=Clenbuterol


"Clenbuterol works the same way as ephedrine. However, unlike ephedrine, which is out of the body in a few hours, clenbuterol lasts for days. So you are on it 24 hours a day. No one chooses to be on ephedrine 24 hours per day, because it interferes with sleep, and so clenbuterol is more effective."

source http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/clenbuterol.htm#ixzz1FFchQhUw


Clen is on the WADA banned list. Seems logical.

cheers

 

[Oldman]

Clenbuterol properties, regarding performance enhancing


Increases aerobic capacity.

Increases oxygen transportation.

Stimulates the central nervous system.

source http://www.bigmonster.org/index.php?q=Clenbuterol


"Clenbuterol works the same way as ephedrine. However, unlike ephedrine, which is out of the body in a few hours, clenbuterol lasts for days. So you are on it 24 hours a day. No one chooses to be on ephedrine 24 hours per day, because it interferes with sleep, and so clenbuterol is more effective."

source http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/clenbuterol.htm#ixzz1FFchQhUw


Clen is on the WADA banned list. Seems logical.

cheers

Which is why it is appropriately used for asthma. How it helps conceal other steroid usage was the question I was interested in.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Which is why it is appropriately used for asthma. How it helps conceal other steroid usage was the question I was interested in.

?? How do any of:

a) Increases aerobic capacity.

b) Increases oxygen transportation.

c) Stimulates the central nervous system.

make it appropriate for asthma treatment?

To effectively treat asthma it acts as a broncho-dilator, relaxing the muscles of the bronchii.

I agree that you question the claim of it being a masking agent for steroids, never heard that before......

 

[Oldman]

?? How do any of:

a) Increases aerobic capacity.

b) Increases oxygen transportation.

c) Stimulates the central nervous system.

make it appropriate for asthma treatment?

To effectively treat asthma it acts as a broncho-dilator, relaxing the muscles of the bronchii.

I agree that you question the claim of it being a masking agent for steroids, never heard that before......

I was suggesting as an asthma attack commences an inhaler deals with symptoms as you have noted, being a broncho-dilator which leads to benefits a,b,c. For a healthy individual I'm not sure it would accomplish anything. As for the claim of it's masking qualities that information comes from former pros that had researched it. The "masking" element of Clen, Albuterol and associated inhalers exempted via a TUE allowed for convenient excuses when a positive value showed up in excess of allowed limits. Think Petacchi in the modern day. I'm wondering if it (those medications) could still serve that use today considering the quality of testing, when actually applied by the UCI? That it is used for weight loss is the current news and it is not legal at extremely low levels of detection. Because of it's relatively specific use it causes me to think that it is associated with other PED routines and that would be the rationale for such low levels of detection, not the perceived, slight benefit of it's own effect.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

I was suggesting as an asthma attack commences an inhaler deals with symptoms as you have noted, being a broncho-dilator which leads to benefits a,b,c. For a healthy individual I'm not sure it would accomplish anything.

I have never research Clenbuterol as a broncho-dilator, but assuming the effects are similar to Salbutamol, then it will do nothing for a non-restricted bronchii.

As for the claim of it's masking qualities that information comes from former pros that had researched it. The "masking" element of Clen, Albuterol and associated inhalers exempted via a TUE allowed for convenient excuses when a positive value showed up in excess of allowed limits. Think Petacchi in the modern day. I'm wondering if it (those medications) could still serve that use today considering the quality of testing, when actually applied by the UCI?

If it was masking other drugs in some test, it is a very blunt "instrument" to be so masked by a totally different drug. (a screening test, I would presume).

My understanding of Mass Spectrometry is that it is very capable of isolating different substances within a single test sample, so the chances of one drug completely "masking" another of a different class/compound would be near impossible in MS testing, but of course the "quick and easy" screens could be fooled.
If so, I would expect that the testing protocol should allow for follow-up to confirm that only the drug for which the TUE is issued is present, nothing else.