Tao Geoghegan Hart discussion thread

[armchairclimber]

Yes, I know, it's a bit previous, given he's only kicking off his Sky season today. Expecting good things this year though and the reason for the post is that I enjoyed reading this blog piece this morning. https://taogeogheganhart.com/move/

 

[Flamin]

When is someone going to stop this outrage? Only the top cream of cycling used to have their own threads, back when this still was a great forum. Now threads are popping up like mushrooms for guys who barely finished a professional race. Heck, there's a goddamn "rider thread directory" stickied to track down if nobody X already has a thread (no idea why this was approved as a good idea, since that only opened the door for more). Meanwhile race threads that are actually relevant are merging in other, existing threads.

Btw, nothing personal, you didn't start this. It already did quite some time ago.

 

[Robert5091]

https://taogeogheganhart.com/about/
Seems to like to refer to himself in the third person, or who's writing this?

 

[armchairclimber]

Re:

When is someone going to stop this outrage? Only the top cream of cycling used to have their own threads, back when this still was a great forum. Now threads are popping up like mushrooms for guys who barely finished a professional race. Heck, there's a goddamn "rider thread directory" stickied to track down if nobody X already has a thread (no idea why this was approved as a good idea, since that only opened the door for more). Meanwhile race threads that are actually relevant are merging in other, existing threads.

Btw, nothing personal, you didn't start this. It already did quite some time ago.

Ordinarily I wouldn't have. I enjoyed reading his blog posts ... well written and a good insight into the life of a neo-pro. I was going to just post a link but thought I might as well give him a thread. I reckon he will earn it this year anyway. No outrage was intended.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

When is someone going to stop this outrage? Only the top cream of cycling used to have their own threads, back when this still was a great forum. Now threads are popping up like mushrooms for guys who barely finished a professional race. Heck, there's a goddamn "rider thread directory" stickied to track down if nobody X already has a thread (no idea why this was approved as a good idea, since that only opened the door for more). Meanwhile race threads that are actually relevant are merging in other, existing threads.

Btw, nothing personal, you didn't start this. It already did quite some time ago.

Ordinarily I wouldn't have. I enjoyed reading his blog posts ... well written and a good insight into the life of a neo-pro. I was going to just post a link but thought I might as well give him a thread. I reckon he will earn it this year anyway. No outrage was intended.

Yeah I know, like I said, nothing personal because you're living up to the new standard of the forum that every rider gets his own thread. So that's perfectly fine. I'm also sure it's an interesting read.

It's just a general message that I don't understand why exactly this has become the new standard.

 

[armchairclimber]

Finished 4th in Majorca today if that helps

 

[42x16ss]

I haven't seen Hart race but looking at results I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about. Brits are talking as if he's the second coming of Merckx but Hart isn't even their best young rider ATM

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

I haven't seen Hart race but looking at results I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about. Brits are talking as if he's the second coming of Merckx but Hart isn't even their best young rider ATM

Have to agree, his results in the under 23's and juniors were solid enough but hasn't set the world alight. He looks like he'll make a solid pro but has had some unwarranted hype attached to him.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I haven't seen Hart race but looking at results I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about. Brits are talking as if he's the second coming of Merckx but Hart isn't even their best young rider ATM

Agree - Think Doull is a better prospect.

 

[armchairclimber]

I have no idea. I only noticed him early last year. What I like is that he seems to have something about him. To have the self belief to go and get in the shake up in his first race for Sky .... and to actually be disappointed that he didn't podium .... I like that. Sometimes you need more than just pure ability .... especially in a team like Sky, where you could easily be overawed by the company.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I haven't seen Hart race but looking at results I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about. Brits are talking as if he's the second coming of Merckx but Hart isn't even their best young rider ATM

Agree - Think Doull is a better prospect.

Carthy as well. Having said that, I'll keep an eye on Hart going forward.

Can he climb? If so that may be a reason for solid but unspectacular U23 results.

 

[PeterB]

Ok, since there is some interest in this topic after all, I think Tao would appreciate if his name was spelled correctly in the thread title...
For me the most important question about him right now is: how to really correctly pronounce his name? Once that is sorted out he can start dominating pro cycling as far as I am concerned.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

I haven't seen Hart race but looking at results I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about. Brits are talking as if he's the second coming of Merckx but Hart isn't even their best young rider ATM

Agree - Think Doull is a better prospect.

Carthy as well. Having said that, I'll keep an eye on Hart going forward.

Can he climb? If so that may be a reason for solid but unspectacular U23 results.

Might have to do with Tao having less chance to shine in Europe, coming from Axel's team. Not to mention AXEON rarely designates a leader for a race, he's never had full team support. That said, they're different riders, but I also think Carthy has the brighter future ahead of him. Tao's skillset seems a bit all over the place.

 

[barmaher]

Re:

Ok, since there is some interest in this topic after all, I think Tao would appreciate if his name was spelled correctly in the thread title...
For me the most important question about him right now is: how to really correctly pronounce his name? Once that is sorted out he can start dominating pro cycling as far as I am concerned.

In Ireland, Geoghegan is a fairly common name. It is pronounced somewhere between "Gay-gun" and "Gay-gan".


So rhyming with Ronald Reagan.

 

[PeterB]

Thanks for clarifying, glad to hear that pronounciation is actually much simpler than the written form suggests.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Thanks for clarifying, glad to hear that pronounciation is actually much simpler than the written form suggests.

Irish names are notorious for having spellings that have little relationship to pronunciation (from the point of view of monoglot anglophones).

There are three basic reasons for this. One is that the historical development of the spelling of Irish preserved an unusual number of letters that had ceased to be pronounced, even after a rather incomplete spelling reform effort in the middle of the 20th Century. The second is the role of the letter h, which is less a letter in its own right than a replacement for a diacritic. Where a h now appears, there used to be in most instances an "overdot" over the previous consonant, indicating as the h does now that the letter is aspirated or softened often to the point of being effectively omitted. The third is that there are different rules for pronouncing vowels.

The easiest rule of thumb when trying to pronounce an Irish language name (or a lightly anglicised Irish language name like Geoghegan) is to ignore any consonants with a h after them. You may still get the vowel sounds wrong, but you will at least get the right number of syllables.

It used to be considerably trickier to work out how an Irish word was pronounced. For example the word "beiriu", used to be spelled "beirbhiughadh".

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Thanks for clarifying, glad to hear that pronounciation is actually much simpler than the written form suggests.

...

It used to be considerably trickier to work out how an Irish word was pronounced. For example the word "beiriu", used to be spelled "beirbhiughadh".

Sounds like the language of Satan to me.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re:

Ok, since there is some interest in this topic after all, I think Tao would appreciate if his name was spelled correctly in the thread title...
For me the most important question about him right now is: how to really correctly pronounce his name? Once that is sorted out he can start dominating pro cycling as far as I am concerned.

Tay-o Gee-ow-gan- Hart

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Thanks for clarifying, glad to hear that pronounciation is actually much simpler than the written form suggests.

...

It used to be considerably trickier to work out how an Irish word was pronounced. For example the word "beiriu", used to be spelled "beirbhiughadh".

Sounds like the language of Satan to me.

It's quite a straightforward language in its spoken form, at least as compared to English. It's just not obvious to non-speakers how pronunciation is connected to spelling.

Outside of the small predominantly Irish speaking (Gaeltacht) areas and Irish language schools, its main day to day usage is as an unbreakable code when around non-Irish people. You'd have to be really spectacularly unlucky for anyone other than another Irish person, someone from the Scottish Gàidhealtachd (note Scottish Gaelic's less reformed spelling!) or a Manx language enthusiast to understand you. It's just not close enough to other languages, even Welsh or Breton, for anyone else to work out.

Anyway, there's pretty much zero chance that Tao Geoghegan Hart knows much of it beyond his name. For that matter, it's unlikely that most of the actually Irish registered pros speak it either as Martin, Brammeier and Mullen weren't educated in Ireland, Irvine's from the North and Roche only spent part of his schooldays in Ireland (and so probably didn't have compulsory Irish exams).

 

[barmaher]

Re: Re:

Ok, since there is some interest in this topic after all, I think Tao would appreciate if his name was spelled correctly in the thread title...
For me the most important question about him right now is: how to really correctly pronounce his name? Once that is sorted out he can start dominating pro cycling as far as I am concerned.

Tay-o Gee-ow-gan- Hart

Are you sure? That's not how Geoghegan is usually pronounced. Of course, he wouldn't be the first person of Irish stock to amend pronunciation of their name when living outside the auld sod.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

English speakers should be the last ones to complain about a language's spelling though. As I understand it these Celtic languages (which all have remarkable spellings) at least have a logic to it, it's just pronounced very differently from how other languages use the Latin alphabet, which makes some sense because they also have a pretty distinct phonology so when you have to reflect that phonology with the Latin alphabet you're forced to have a rather distinct use of the Latin alphabet..

English spelling is just complete incoherent chaos. (Note how <e> is used six times in the previous sentence and reflects five different vowels and is silent once and furthermore <o> is used three times and reflects three different vowels here. Anglophones, don't complain about other people's writing systems.)

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Ok, since there is some interest in this topic after all, I think Tao would appreciate if his name was spelled correctly in the thread title...
For me the most important question about him right now is: how to really correctly pronounce his name? Once that is sorted out he can start dominating pro cycling as far as I am concerned.

In Ireland, Geoghegan is a fairly common name. It is pronounced somewhere between "Gay-gun" and "Gay-gan".


So rhyming with Ronald Reagan.

I heard the Dubai Tour commentator pronounce it this way as well

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re: Re:

Ok, since there is some interest in this topic after all, I think Tao would appreciate if his name was spelled correctly in the thread title...
For me the most important question about him right now is: how to really correctly pronounce his name? Once that is sorted out he can start dominating pro cycling as far as I am concerned.

Tay-o Gee-ow-gan- Hart

Are you sure? That's not how Geoghegan is usually pronounced. Of course, he wouldn't be the first person of Irish stock to amend pronunciation of their name when living outside the auld sod.

Thats how I pronounce it. I heard it somewhere and started pronouncing it like that so I might be wrong.

 

[armchairclimber]

10th today at the Big Mig race. Not bad .... though it didn't appear to be hotly contested. More a warm up.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

English speakers should be the last ones to complain about a language's spelling though. As I understand it these Celtic languages (which all have remarkable spellings) at least have a logic to it, it's just pronounced very differently from how other languages use the Latin alphabet, which makes some sense because they also have a pretty distinct phonology so when you have to reflect that phonology with the Latin alphabet you're forced to have a rather distinct use of the Latin alphabet..

English spelling is just complete incoherent chaos. (Note how <e> is used six times in the previous sentence and reflects five different vowels and is silent once and furthermore <o> is used three times and reflects three different vowels here. Anglophones, don't complain about other people's writing systems.)

For the most part, English and Irish spelling are equivalent, in that they're both largely etymological and far removed from their almost phonological origins. I wouldn't say one is more chaotic than the other. Irish phonology is and always was pretty different from what the Latin alphabet was created to represent, but the same could be said about English phonology (although to an admittedly lesser extent).

Although I guess Irish benefits from stemming from a single spelling tradition (the Irish one), whereas English is made more complicated by the mixture of the native and Norman spelling traditions. In that sense, you could compare Irish to French (both have seemingly incomprehensible, but actually fairly systematic spellings) and say that English is indeed more chaotic than both.

Regardless, that chaos usually only exists for people who don't know the language. Once you do, those apparent inconsistencies generally make a lot of sense and they come in very handy.