TDF 2018 Stage 4 - La Baule - Sarzeau 195 km

[rainman]

Re: Re:

Not a fan of riders that don't bother to learn english. No idea what's Gaviria saying.

He speaks English pretty well.

And very snobbish comment by the way. Why not learn Spanish if you want to understand what Spanish talking people say?

It was the winner's interview. I feel like English should be spoken but that's just me.

Is cycling a traditionally English speaking sport? The paradigm may have shifted in recent decades, but 20 years ago I'd bet more cycling fans spoke Spanish as their first language.

I don't mind them using their own language but they should also do interviews in English. One in their own language and one in English.

How do you figure that out? They can express themselves more clearly in their own language and translation is provided. What an entitled snob.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Not a fan of riders that don't bother to learn english. No idea what's Gaviria saying.

He speaks English pretty well.

And very snobbish comment by the way. Why not learn Spanish if you want to understand what Spanish talking people say?

It was the winner's interview. I feel like English should be spoken but that's just me.

Is cycling a traditionally English speaking sport? The paradigm may have shifted in recent decades, but 20 years ago I'd bet more cycling fans spoke Spanish as their first language.

I don't mind them using their own language but they should also do interviews in English. One in their own language and one in English.

Is this a wind up?

 

[benzwire]

Re: Re:

Not a fan of riders that don't bother to learn english. No idea what's Gaviria saying.

He speaks English pretty well.

And very snobbish comment by the way. Why not learn Spanish if you want to understand what Spanish talking people say?

It was the winner's interview. I feel like English should be spoken but that's just me.

Is cycling a traditionally English speaking sport? The paradigm may have shifted in recent decades, but 20 years ago I'd bet more cycling fans spoke Spanish as their first language.

I don't mind them using their own language but they should also do interviews in English. One in their own language and one in English.

What accent do you prefer? American? British? Aussie? We should inform the peloton so that they can appease you.

 

[alspacka]

I can understand saying learning English would be good for their popularity or whatever, but "should"? This is the kind of entitlement reaching a world cup semi fosters lol.

 

[fantomas]

Re: Re:

Btw, Sagan's career TdF's second place no. 20!

Ouch!

Also equals Zabel's record, 89 green jerseys.

 

[SKSemtex]

Sagan needs one podium next 2 stages to get the ratio better than 1/3 in terms podium/ TDF Stages
If I calculated right he has 38/113 right now.

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

Btw, Sagan's career TdF's second place no. 20!

Ouch!

That's an incredible statistic.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Pfff, Groenewegen boxed in and too far. Rode by far the fastest sprint but you don't win races like that.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that he rode a faster sprint than the 3 podium finishers. Did you see how long Greipel and Gav were in the wind?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

That crash 5 km out was weird. A bike just popped up in the air out of the middle of the peloton with no visible rider and went cartwheeling down the road. Not sure if it was Benoot's bike - he stayed down. Also Domont looked badly hurt

 

[Vroome.exe]

Re: Re:

It was the same at the Giro and really it’s been the same all year - Quickstep’s sprinter support is a huge advantage for whoever is on the end of their lead out. It’s actually hard to work out where their sprinters rank against their peers because they always have that advantage.

You should give sprinter more credit. Sometimes having a good leadout isnt even good, look at Viviani losing sprints in Giro because of that. Gav is crazy strong to hold everyone behind him like that.

Why should I give them more credit? Being on the end of the Quickstep lead out is a very big advantage. Saying that isn’t an attack on the sprinters concerned. They still have to be fast. But they wouldn’t win as often without their advantage and because they have that advantage it’s hard to work out where they stand against their rivals judged only on their own merits. I really don’t see how saying that is controversial.

How many riders would have won today from Gaviria's position while having Gav on their wheel or anywhere close to them? I mean it certainly helps to have a team like that, but sprinting from the front would only work for two or three sprinters. And Gav definitely knows how to surf wheels if he needs that.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Btw, Sagan's career TdF's second place no. 20!

Ouch!

That's an incredible statistic.

Not bad for the second-class sprinter.

 

[gmedina]

what is with people saying that Gaviria gets stuff on a gold platter and how he is not the fastest? people quickly forgot how he came into everyone's radar...by beating Cav in 2015 with the "great" lead out train of Coldeportes team!

 

[TourOfSardinia]

I didn't watch Alberto for his accent

 

[Screecher]

Re:

what is with people saying that Gaviria gets stuff on a gold platter and how he is not the fastest? people quickly forgot how he came into everyone's radar...by beating Cav in 2015 with the "great" lead out train of Coldeportes team!

Does it matter if he is or isn't the fastest? He's winning and that's what matters.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Pfff, Groenewegen boxed in and too far. Rode by far the fastest sprint but you don't win races like that.

There's was absolutely nothing to suggest that he rode a faster sprint than the 3 podium finishers. Did you see how long Greipel and Gav were in the wind?

Its DT that was frustrated in the heat of the moment by Groenewegen getting his ass kicked by Gaviria and QS.

 

[Robert5091]

Chapeau Gaviria & QS! Thought Greipel would get it, but ... Nasty crash with 4 km to go - Zakarin got caught up in that - not good for his GC hopes.
Hope Domont & Benoot are not too badly hurt. 1 less for Bardet's team it seems.

BMC v QS tomorrow?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

It was the same at the Giro and really it’s been the same all year - Quickstep’s sprinter support is a huge advantage for whoever is on the end of their lead out. It’s actually hard to work out where their sprinters rank against their peers because they always have that advantage.

You should give sprinter more credit. Sometimes having a good leadout isnt even good, look at Viviani losing sprints in Giro because of that. Gav is crazy strong to hold everyone behind him like that.

Why should I give them more credit? Being on the end of the Quickstep lead out is a very big advantage. Saying that isn’t an attack on the sprinters concerned. They still have to be fast. But they wouldn’t win as often without their advantage and because they have that advantage it’s hard to work out where they stand against their rivals judged only on their own merits. I really don’t see how saying that is controversial.

How many riders would have won today from Gaviria's position while having Gav on their wheel or anywhere close to them? I mean it certainly helps to have a team like that, but sprinting from the front would only work for two or three sprinters. And Gav definitely knows how to surf wheels if he needs that.

I don’t know why you are responding to a statement you apparently agree with as if I had implied that Quickstep’s sprinters only win because of their team and aren’t fast at all. As you say yourself “it certainly helps to have a team like that”.

I think that Gaviria and Viviani both belong in the elite tier of sprinters, but it is hard to say where exactly they rank in that tier because they have support that isn’t just better, it’s on a completely different level. At its most basic level they are always, always placed in a position to contest the sprint, which can’t be said for most other sprinters. Of course they usually aren’t just placed so that they can contest the win, they are more often than not also placed so as to have an actual advantage in the sprint. On top of that, they also have teammates who can (and when they are facing a sprinter they perceive as equal or faster often do) protect their wheel from rivals or in other ways make life harder for them.

That doesn’t turn donkeys into race horses. But it does turn elite sprinters into bulk winners. And frankly I’d expect any of the ten or so best sprinters to rack up a huge number of wins if they were on QS.

 

[Anderis]

Re:

what is with people saying that Gaviria gets stuff on a gold platter and how he is not the fastest? people quickly forgot how he came into everyone's radar...by beating Cav in 2015 with the "great" lead out train of Coldeportes team!

I remember how people used to say that Cavendish was winning mainly thanks to the Columbia sprint train. Then he went to Sky and won 3 TdF stages in a team built around Wiggins' GC.

I think a sprint train doesn't make that much of a difference. It decreases the chances of getting boxed but not much more than that. It's just often the best team is built around the best rider so there might be an impression of a rider owing his wins to his team-mates. But it often turns out that the same riders are winning even on those days when their trains didn't do that well.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

Chapeau Gaviria & QS! Thought Greipel would get it, but ... Nasty crash with 4 km to go - Zakarin got caught up in that - not good for his GC hopes.
Hope Domont & Benoot are not too badly hurt. 1 less for Bardet's team it seems.

BMC v QS tomorrow?

v BORA

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

what is with people saying that Gaviria gets stuff on a gold platter and how he is not the fastest? people quickly forgot how he came into everyone's radar...by beating Cav in 2015 with the "great" lead out train of Coldeportes team!

I remember how people used to say that Cavendish was winning mainly thanks to the Columbia sprint train. Then he went to Sky and won 3 TdF stages in a team built around Wiggins' GC.

I think a sprint train doesn't make that much of a difference. It decreases the chances of getting boxed but not much more than that. It's just often the best team is built around the best rider so there might be an impression of a rider owing his wins to his team-mates. But it often turns out that the same riders are winning even on those days when their trains didn't do that well.

No, a train is definitely an advantage. Good sprinters can surf wheels and pick their lines and moments, yes, but being protected and guided through that can make it all so much easier.

As has been said, 4 hours of not having to fight for position makes 30 seconds of fighting for it much, much easier.

Yes trains can get it wrong. Yes, sometimes a Sagan or a Bennett or a Cav can tag onto the back of the train. But good leadout men are invaluable. Gaviria might have a lot of his wins without Richeze, but he would’ve had to work harder for them.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Pfff, Groenewegen boxed in and too far. Rode by far the fastest sprint but you don't win races like that.

There's was absolutely nothing to suggest that he rode a faster sprint than the 3 podium finishers. Did you see how long Greipel and Gav were in the wind?

Its DT that was frustrated in the heat of the moment by Groenewegen getting his *** kicked by Gaviria and QS.

He didn't get his ass kicked by Gaviria. By QS sure. He never sprinted against Gaviria so far this Tour. I doubt we'll even see a direct battle by the way things are going at LottoNL

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Pfff, Groenewegen boxed in and too far. Rode by far the fastest sprint but you don't win races like that.

There's was absolutely nothing to suggest that he rode a faster sprint than the 3 podium finishers. Did you see how long Greipel and Gav were in the wind?

Its DT that was frustrated in the heat of the moment by Groenewegen getting his *** kicked by Gaviria and QS.

He didn't get his *** kicked by Gaviria. By QS sure. He never sprinted against Gaviria so far this Tour. I doubt we'll even see a direct battle by the way things are going at LottoNL

There are eight sprint stages. He will get into a decent position sooner or later. If he can’t with that many tries the problem isn’t just with his support but with him. Same goes for Kittel.

 

[carton]

Congrats to QS and to Fernando.

Also, this is getting silly. Yes, QS gives their guys a good leadout but Viviani was the fastest guy at the Giro and Gaviria has been the fastest so far here. He went out for a 250m (Richeze dropped him off a little long, because the gap was good and he knew Gaviria could pull it off) headwind sprint and Sagan couldn't get past him.

Bar Greipel, the other elite sprinters were almost gapped. Yeah, Groenewegen and Kittel were badly position, but guys like Kristoff basically couldn't even hold the wheels.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The silly part of this discussion is the assumption among some that teams go to all the trouble of assembling a sprint support team, paying them, drilling them, picking them for race squads and putting them to work all for no reason because ultimately the guy who is just the fastest wins.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

But guys like Kristoff basically couldn't even hold the wheels.

Seems to be the standard with Kristoff these days