TdF Stage 12 - Fri 16th - Bourg-de-Péage - Mende 210.5km

[CatsNK]

Versus?

Do most people here watch the Versus coverage?

The Eurosport coverage is quite good - they rarely mention LA except on Sunday when he was imploding. Other than that he's barely a blip on their radar screen. Although the Eurosport announcers are annoying with their Vino-hatred, they also can't stand LA. It can be quite funny to hear them.

I recommend tying into the live streams from Eurosport to all non-LA fans over the Versus coverage, if you can.

ETA -honestly I prefer the Italian streams over Versus, even though I can't understand only one out of every 25 words in Italian!

 

[hrotha]

But that was the point here, Andy was struggling when AC attacked. He looked over at Andy laboring to get to JVB's wheel and went. That was the key moment because AC had been sitting back and not really doing anything the entire climb. I'll have to watch the replay, but that's how I recall it at the time.

Everything that followed was just part of the race IMO. And the 10 seconds was meaningful. For the psychological reasons and for the actual time gained. Andy has to attack MORE now. His advantage has shrunk to a guy he knows is a better time trialist. And that increases the likelihood that he (AS) will crack under the pressure. His grasps of stage tactics and the overall strategy are impeachable at this point. I'll wait to hear otherwise from Vino, but I don't think there will be any complaints out of the glorious nation camp.

I just don't see what all the hand wringing is about here....

That's fine. I still disagree but disagreement is OK. I was just frustrated by people here who don't want to discuss it, making everything revolve around the tedious LA dramarama.

 

[Francois the Postman]

tbh, If lance did what Ac did to AV then most posters would be getting stuck into him because he's LA.

I seriously doubt that. We wouldn't have the discussion in the first place as those that like the hero would be chuffed to bits, and those that dislike LA would find it much harder to pretend they understood so little about racing that they would argue that what Lance did was stooopid. Some of us do post with the illusion that what we say actually makes cycling sense sometimes, and ha some correlation with what can actually be seen on the road.

It's one thing to dislike Lance. it is quite another to argue that he should be riding as if the #1 goal in the TdF should be ignored to please a team mate's dreams, after it looks more than likely that it is utterly doomed in the first place.

Now if Lance had made a big spiel about "how to ride as a champ" and some of that flew in the face of his comeback riding, some posts would no doubt rub that in.

Actually arguing that Contador really should ride as a "chump" instead of a "champ" seems to be an admission that some had a good look at what they had to smear 'em, and the real answer was "nada".

 

[alberto.legstrong]

tbh, If lance did what Ac did to AV then most posters would be getting stuck into him because he's LA.

Imagine how it would be if Levi did what AC did and Lance was in Vino's place. What sort of car would be at the hotel waiting for Levi at the time trial? How heavy would Iron TT wheels be?

Levi's body would be found with his Road I.D. up his @ss.

 

[icefire]

It's a race for the yellow jersey. The psychological blow to Schleck was quite worth it. Schleck was quite sure of himself, but after today, he's going to have doubts again. It wasn't just about 10 seconds. Plus, Alberto didn't really know how far back Schleck was anyway. It could have been a bigger gap.

+1

I'm still wondering why something so obvious is that difficult to understand.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

Other than that he's barely a blip on their radar screen. Although the Eurosport announcers are annoying with their Vino-hatred, they also can't stand LA.

Not the russian one, he's praising them both.
________
BUY ROOR BONGS

 

[Connor Pass]

It's funny that people here are giving out about Contador not helping Vino. When I was watching the race I couldn't believe that Contador didn't agree to share the work in the last k with Rodriguez in exchange for the stage win.
Rodriguez was always going to win the sprint but Contador obviously was hoping Vino could get back.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I seriously doubt that. We wouldn't have the discussion in the first place as those that like the hero would be chuffed to bits, and those that dislike LA would find it much harder to pretend they understood so little about racing that they would argue that what Lance did was stooopid. Some of us do post with the illusion that what we say actually makes cycling sense sometimes, and ha some correlation with what can actually be seen on the road.

It's one thing to dislike Lance. it is quite another to argue that he should be riding as if the #1 goal in the TdF should be ignored to please a team mate's dreams, after it looks more than likely that it is utterly doomed in the first place.

Now if Lance had made a big spiel about "how to ride as a champ" and some of that flew in the face of his comeback riding, some posts would no doubt rub that in.

Actually arguing that Contador really should ride as a "chump" instead of a "champ" seems to be an admission that some had a good look at what they had to smear 'em, and the real answer was "nada".

You really think so? I find it hard to believe there would be the same amount of defence for LA as AC as in other threads there is a similar notion of what I am talking about. Anyway, next...

 

[Francois the Postman]

Have you guys watched the stage? Contador pulled Rodriguez up to Vino. Did you guys see Vino when he crossed the line? He was obviously pretty ****ed off with his hand gestures, after he saw what happened in front of him with Rodriguez sprinting over Contador. I am sure there will be some friction in that bus today. It's 10 seconds or Vino attempt of winning stage.

There is more then one explanation for that hand gesture.

Frustration with "the outcome for Astana".
Frustration with "having come so close".
Frustration with "what Contador did to me".

The last one looks the least likely of the 3, to me. I suspect it is option two more than three.

 

[killswitch]

Sure it ended up being "only" 10 seconds in the end, but there's no way of knowing that at the time - what if AS had cracked completely and AC could have pulled 20 or 30 seconds back? Then would it have been worth it to you?

What if AC had waited for Vino? When Vino was caught, AC hesitated, but the look on Vino's face convinced him he was cooked. It turns out that Vino wasn't feeling that bad - the time difference at the finish was 4 seconds and he wasn't caught by VdB group. Either way AC dealt a huge blow to Andy's confidence.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

+1

I'm still wondering why something so obvious is that difficult to understand.

Some people hate AC. Any situation will be twisted to make him look villainous. No different than the way LA gets treated here by a lot of people. Don't let the story get in the way of good facts.

 

[schnebit]

I personally cannot STAND Contador, but I don't hink he did anything wrong here... this is the Tour. The fight for the overall is more important than a stage win. Contador had no idea how much time he might have been able to put into Shleck... Say that he was able to get more than 10 seconds... say it would have been 50 seconds or a minute and now he's in Yellow.

Would we still be having this conversation???

Vino should understand that and not be sour. It's kind of odd to me that he'd go for a stage win on a stage he knows MIGHT be decisive in the battle for the overall... IF he's really riding in support of the team, that is.

 

[Barrus]

My interpretation of the event:

Contador had no visible intend to attack, only to follow.
Rodriguez attacked VBD goes after him. Contador reacts, AS reacts to him. Conti goes over VDB, Schleck can't follow. From this p;oint on it's in AC best interest to ride as hard as he can to the finish. AC and Rod come to Vino, Ac keeps looking back to see whether Vino can follow, once he realizes Vino can't AC pushes on, dropping Vino.
At the line it seemed as though Vino was more aanoyed at himself and at the fact that no Astana won.

 

[DenisMenchov]

It's funny that people here are giving out about Contador not helping Vino. When I was watching the race I couldn't believe that Contador didn't agree to share the work in the last k with Rodriguez in exchange for the stage win.
Rodriguez was always going to win the sprint but Contador obviously was hoping Vino could get back.

Contador thinks only about himself(not judging him, that something every GC contender must do). I`m surprised how Denis and VDB rode today. They were very good up in the fron but they just don`t have the acceleration of AC, I think that if that climb lasted for 2km more poursuivants would cath up with AC and Rodriguez they were very strong, much stronger than on Madelaine.

 

[schnebit]

Some people hate AC. Any situation will be twisted to make him look villainous. No different than the way LA gets treated here by a lot of people. Don't let the story get in the way of good facts.

I often wonder what people will be talking about when Lance isn't around next year... wait, it will be the trial.

 

[Polish]

Maybe Alberto should give Vino his "2010 Commemorative TdF Watch" a bit early. Might ease the tension at dinner tonite.

BTW, Rodriguez beat Vino by 4 seconds.

Seriously, does anyone think Rodriguez would still have won if he attacked alone?
C'mon, no way.
Vino would NOT have let a more tired Rodriguez beat HIM in a sprint.

Yes, the 10 seconds gained by Alberto will cause "Psycho Damage".
But who will be the rider suffering that damage?
Who will have trouble sleeping tonite?

 

[hrotha]

Vino would NOT have let a more tired Rodriguez beat HIM in a sprint.

What drugs are you on.

 

[killswitch]

Vino would NOT have let a more tired Rodriguez beat HIM in a sprint.

blablablabla

 

[Nickbeam]

Contador thinks only about himself(not judging him, that something every GC contender must do). I`m surprised how Denis and VDB rode today. They were very good up in the fron but they just don`t have the acceleration of AC, I think that if that climb lasted for 2km more poursuivants would cath up with AC and Rodriguez they were very strong, much stronger than on Madelaine.

Denis looked extremely good, i thought it would be worse. Basso keeps losing and losing, he's out of 10 now, wouldn't be surprised if he won't be there in paris.

 

[schnebit]

10 seconds is 10 seconds... remember 1989? You NEVER know...

 

[Francois the Postman]

Actually Vino going in the break was the perfect tactics, it forced Saxo to ride and allowed Astana to sit back and relax, and tactically it worked out the way they wanted to. The only question is whether or not Contador pulling Rodriguez that last 500m to get a few more seconds on Schlek was team tactics or him going off on his own, if it was tactics it was brilliant, if it was Contador acting on his own he's probably going to have to buy Vinokourov a nice watch like he did for LA.

It looks more than likely he'll be doing that anyway, as it is now the traditional gift from the Tour winner to his team mates.

And I agree, planned or not, Vino in the break has made Saxo suffer on a physical level. Contador's last minute dig hit the team leader's morale.

Good day for the Astana team. Really really bad one for the (leading) challengers.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

I often wonder what people will be talking about when Lance isn't around next year... wait, it will be the trial.

If Lance could have just ridden his bike and stfu while off of it. Half of this venom towards him wouldn't exist. (there'd still be plenty, but it would be different)

 

[Mellow Velo]

The other thing completely lost by the subjective haters is that the Astana domestiques spent the entire day in the Saxo bed.
They had to do nada.
No Navarro flogging his guts out. All rested up for the Pyrenees.
Vino, does his usual monster workout and Contador made a small attack.
Schleck has now lost the initiative.

All in all, a very decent return.

 

[Bala Verde]

Contdador caught his breath and twiddled his thumbs on his iRaspberry

Dia muy duro hoy con final en Mende,recortando 10" importantisimos,marcada por la confusion en la situacion de carrera debido a la radio

 

[schnebit]

I guess... it just cracks me up that the guy's not even a factor in the race and yet there is still so much talk about him.