TdF TTT - GC winners & losers

[VeloCity]

I've never understood why having a strong team in the mountains is widely considered to be an important and worthy part of GT cycling, as it's a team sport after all, but having a strong team in the TTT is an unfair advantage and should be banished all together.

TTTs are great. Long may they continue.

Because in a TTT a rider's time depends on his 5th teammate (which could be either beneficial or detrimental), not his own time. Imagine if that were the case in climbing stages - Contador waiting for his 5th teammate to cross the line to see what his time is going to be. Would be a complete joke.

 

[El Pistolero]

The only people for whom a strong mountain team is useful are people who can really win the Tour or can finish the job of and win stages.

Other people just need their teams to position them well on the foot of the final climb and let the real teams with the winner in it do the pacing. I find having strong mountain team in support for someone who can't possibly win stupid

As for TTT, I don't mind them at all. I hope Andy loses time so he has to make up some in the mountains. A chain is only as strong as his weakest link. In Leopard that weakest link are the Schleck bros.

 

[boomcie]

The Dutch apparently expect Gesink to podium big time.

I saw this poll on Telesport.nl asking if Gesink was going to podium or not and 65% thought he would.

I'm afraid some people are going to be very disappointed.

*This image has NOT been digitally altered.

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

For this TT though, people are saying Leopard is very strong. They do, however, have one major problem: Frank Schleck. I can see Andy keeping up with the pace of the rest of their team, but Frank, even if he doesn't have to work, might get into trouble. They'd probably wait for him or just ride slower than possible.
.

Both Schlecks are about even in their TT capabilities, give or take a bit on either side: Frank is more aero (he has a very flat back compared to earlier days) while Andy seems to be able to grind a "bigger" gear.
If one doesn't get dropped neither will the other.

 

[Cerberus]

Both Schlecks are about even in their TT capabilities, give or take a bit on either side: Frank is more aero (he has a very flat back compared to earlier days) while Andy seems to be able to grind a "bigger" gear.
If one doesn't get dropped neither will the other.

Andy is significantly at TTs. He's beaten his brother fairly consistently in the Tour TTs.

 

[Bavarianrider]

The Dutch apparently expect Gesink to podium big time.

I saw this poll on Telesport.nl asking if Gesink was going to podium or not and 65% thought he would.

I'm afraid some people are going to be very disappointed.

*This image has NOT been digitally altered.

You know what dutchies do when they won the soccer wolrd cup`
They switch off their play stations

You know what dutchies do when gesing finished on the podium?
They switch off cycling manager

 

[The Hitch]

Im actually surprised 35% of Dutchies dont think Gesink will make the podium. He has been hyped big time in the cycling world. I bought some english cycling magazine previewing the Tour and even the official prediction was that Gesink would be 2nd/3rd (depending on Contador riding) and most of the individual predictions had him on the podium.

If Gesink doesnt make the podium I feel it will be failure by the standards that have been set.

 

[Havetts]

I doubt it will be a huge disappointment, I think most dutchies atleast expect him to better his position (excluding crashes etc, dont go Gesink always crashes on me.) of last year. That poll does not have the option of 'Maybe or Possibly'.

 

[boomcie]

Im actually surprised 35% of Dutchies dont think Gesink will make the podium. He has been hyped big time in the cycling world. I bought some english cycling magazine previewing the Tour and even the official prediction was that Gesink would be 2nd/3rd (depending on Contador riding) and most of the individual predictions had him on the podium.

If Gesink doesnt make the podium I feel it will be failure by the standards that have been set.

I'm actually among those 35%. Maybe all of those people were foreigners.

I already feel bad for the guy, expectations are seriously through the roof.

 

[Anonymous]

You know what dutchies do when they won the soccer wolrd cup`
They switch off their play stations

You know what dutchies do when gesing finished on the podium?
They switch off cycling manager

when did they win the soccer world cup? runners up 3 times. They won Euro 88. facts.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

You know what dutchies do when they won the soccer wolrd cup`
They switch off their play stations

You know what dutchies do when gesing finished on the podium?
They switch off cycling manager

you know what germans do to get tony martin on the podium?

alter the database

 

[kurtinsc]

That's called individual time trial

Not quite the same.

Let's say you have a team that has Spartacus but 8 other guys who can't time trial a bit (pick your favorite lousy timetrialist).

Now let's say you have a team with four great time-trialists on it.

The team with 4 great TT riders who are all individually worse then spartacus would likely have all 4 finish better then him over a lengthy TTT... because they'd be taking turns in the wind while he'd have to fight it by himself the whole way. I think a team of Leipheimer/Brajkovic/Kloden working together could probably finish ahead of Cancellera solo.

Also, there'd be tactics involved. Do you send Spartacus ahead to win a stage... or do you hold him back to help Andy/Frank to the best time they can get? Do you slow down slightly to have a weaker rider be able to contribute early in the race to spell the other guys... or go faster early and drop down to 2 or 3 guys together.

I think it would be better then the traditional TTT... but I'd prefer another individual time trial instead.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I'm actually among those 35%. Maybe all of those people were foreigners.

I already feel bad for the guy, expectations are seriously through the roof.

No, not all of them were foreigners.

A 7th or 8th place in GC seems reasonable to me. The field is even stronger than last year and he could barely hold on to 6th place then. But... if I voice this opinion in public people roll their eyes at me. t'is true.

 

[theyoungest]

I'm actually among those 35%. Maybe all of those people were foreigners.

I already feel bad for the guy, expectations are seriously through the roof.

Probably if you had a poll on the website of Het Laatste Nieuws asking "will Jurgen VDB finish on the Tour podium" you'd get the same results. I doubt anyone really thinks Gesink will make the podium, even more so among Dutch cycling followers. Maybe it's what people wish, not what they think will happen.

Unlike the picture usually painted in the Belgian press about Dutch chauvinism and all that, the Dutch are usually overly critical of their sportsmen. Sports heroes don't exist in this country, Gesink is no exception.

 

[boomcie]

Sports heroes don't exist in this country...

Saddest country ever.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the Belgian press doesn't write about Dutch chauvinism (at least not to my knowledge). You could be right about the poll stuff though.

 

[Descender]

I absolutely loathe TTT.

 

[theyoungest]

Saddest country ever.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the Belgian press doesn't write about Dutch chauvinism (at least not to my knowledge). You could be right about the poll stuff though.

Pay more attention, you'll notice. Also: Dutch bluff, Dutch arrogance, Dutch bluntness.

If you don't believe me, read back some articles from Lars Boom's CX career

 

[benpounder]

I've never understood why having a strong team in the mountains is widely considered to be an important and worthy part of GT cycling, as it's a team sport after all, but having a strong team in the TTT is an unfair advantage and should be banished all together.

TTTs are great. Long may they continue.

I note how those that have answered are dancing around the point you make. A strong team is advantageous irrespective of the course - to its teammates. And while generally, the strength of another team is thought to be a threat, one can benefit when another strong team starts the lead-out in a sprint, or if eschlons form, or if a break needs to be brought back. But another strong team can only be to your disadvantage in a TTT. Note that I have not used the emotion tugging "unfair" moniker. The point being, everyone knows the rules and the route well before a race starts. Every team has the ability to staff both their full squad, and the race team in a way that best suits its ambitions. Stating the obvious, certain teams have greater financial limitations than others - is that fair?

It is also interesting that many here who want to do away with the TTT also want to see time bonuses awarded. We all have seen plenty of stages where a protected rider follows his team mates wheel all the way up a climb on to launch in the final kms to race to a win. Are not time bonuses a way of awarding advantage to the strong team? (the difference is in degree, not design.)

 

[Havetts]

Saddest country ever.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the Belgian press doesn't write about Dutch chauvinism (at least not to my knowledge). You could be right about the poll stuff though.

Belgian press refuses to acknowledge anything good a Dutch person does, just listen to Wuijts and other Sporza commentators. Or the Sporza article on the Collet D'Allevard, saying Vino did the first attack while Gesink did the first. When Gesink finished second he was not even mentioned.

Just some small examples.

 

[boomcie]

Pay more attention, you'll notice. Also: Dutch bluff, Dutch arrogance, Dutch bluntness.

If you don't believe me, read back some articles from Lars Boom's CX career

The arrogance I knew, that's made up? My god, I'm being brainwashed.

Boom was an enemy of the state for many farmers and smalltown people. Not a good example!

Belgian press refuses to acknowledge anything good a Dutch person does, just listen to Wuijts and other Sporza commentators. Or the Sporza article on the Collet D'Allevard, saying Vino did the first attack while Gesink did the first. When Gesink finished second he was not even mentioned.

Just some small examples.

Is this true? I always hear the Belgian commentators mentioning Dutch cyclist in a positive way. Some of them are clearly reluctant about it, but they do it nevertheless.

 

[Havetts]

Is this true? I always hear the Belgian commentators mentioning Dutch cyclist in a positive way. Some of them are clearly reluctant about it, but they do it nevertheless.

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.1043136

Press Ctrl + F and search for Gesink.

 

[boomcie]

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.1043136

Press Ctrl + F and search for Gesink.

Of course they didn't mention him, he didn't really play a role in that stage, except in the last k and that wasn't for victory anymore!

I've seen a lot worse on Telesport

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Especially the website of Het Laatste Nieuws does everything it can to belittle the Dutch.

Either they don't mention a good dutchie at all, or, like in TdSuisse, they invent something else.
Like "Kruijswijk could profit from the big guns watching eachother and therefore took the win". While everyone who watched the stage saw that Kruijswijk countered and passed Cunego and was clearly the strongest that day.

Stuff like that happens on HLN.be all the time. And even Sporza.be (the website) often does this.
The commentators, Wuyts and Renaat, don't tho, they are very supportive even of the Dutch and I can appreciate that. But their website guys are awful.

Oh and boomcie, you think Telesport is bad, I agree, but HLN.be is the belgian version of it and far far worse, also look at the comments from people there they are even more *** than the ones on telesport.nl.

HLN and Telesport are really the root of all evil and nobody in holland takes telegraaf/telesport readers/followers seriously

 

[boomcie]

Oh and boomcie, you think Telesport is bad, I agree, but HLN.be is the belgian version of it and far far worse, also look at the comments from people there they are even more *** than the ones on telesport.nl.

HLN and Telesport are really the root of all evil and nobody in holland takes telegraaf/telesport readers/followers seriously

I actually think HLN is a lot worse, don't even visit that sh*thole anymore

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

By the way I also think you're being overly negative about Gesinks podium chances. Or that only Dutchies think that.

I watch on international cycling sites and forums and many seem to think he can podium and some even think he can challenge Andy and Alberto while nobody of them are Dutch.

I think Gesink will do better than last year, which means he will finish top 5. I would be dissapointed if he couldn't improve on last year. Certainly if you think that he had a woefully bad time trial which has improved a lot since 2011, and ofcourse he lost time on the cobble stage where he rode with a broken ulna. Which also took a few % of his best in the mountain stages I recon.

So he simply HAS to do better than 2010, certainly with the whole team built around him. Top 5 is realistic and top 3 is possible, but very hard obviously.
The way you laugh it away seems to me like you're underestimating Gesink