Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Libertine Seguros]

Davide Rebellin called his Olympic silver medal a victory for clean cycling.

Should we applaud him for his self-serving PR too?

 

[argyllflyer]

Not sure if this has been posted or not (or if it's geo-restricted) but this Bradley Wiggins video interview with the BBC this week discusses his transformation from track to road and Sky's success. Interviewer not the most clued up in places (calling A Schleck an 'old head') but interesting none the less.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18514483

 

[ElChingon]

You need a picture:

 

[blackcat]

I wasnt there your right. But I stand by what I said. Sky have come out with what is basically an anti doping press release.

why tho?

They have nothing to hide and are trying to be transparent .

trying? Why is it necessary. Why "try"?

Yes thats from sky but if it was complete rubbish then they wouldnt say it as it could easily be disputed and rubbished.

heheheh. Did you learn from Armstrong and Edward Bernays?

With the sponsor they have they are not going to want to start messing around so I think I will take the logical route and go with what they have said.

with that sponsor, are not they even more strongly buttressed, like having a cloak of "cancer"

I dont see the same releases from other teams, giving rider stats etc
So on that I believe they are doing the right thing and other teams should follow suit. If they are already doing it then release the statements.
Its clearly a good way to do things.

Armstrong did it. Wiggins did it. Both were pulled because their blood values showed something other than normal.

See, this does not wash on the continent. Puritans from anglophone nations, have some belief in the ideals, untainted, that the contest can remain pure.

 

[Hugh Januss]

"I am not a crook."
Richard Milhous Nixon

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ivan Basso was publishing all his data online for a while too.

I put it to you that Emanuele Sella has done more to help the anti-doping cause in cycling than the whole of Team Sky put together.

 

[nslckevin]

Cav's talents and body type don't support turning a Cav into even a Rouler much less an hors-category climbing contender.

I would guess that Cav's weight loss has to do with wanting to win the Olympics. Being a bit lighter will help him make it through the Box Hill circuits with the leaders without having to do a long chase with a small team. He's probably looking to improve his 5' W/kg power by lower the kg's.

I'm kind of shocked that anybody would make the leap in thinking that Cav is trying to turn himself into a climber or rouler or that this has anything to do with the Tour. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Cav is looking straight through to Tour de France at the Olympic Road Race as his raison d'etre these days.

Kevin Metcalfe
California

 

[nslckevin]

I do not own a dog.

Total side track here, but your statement reminded me of VdB's claim that the EPO was for his dog when they found it at his house. I had an old dog that ended up passing away from kidney failure. One of the treatment options was EPO. We didn't go that route, but if you did they would basically give you the EPO and syringes. I was really sad at that time, but I remember thinking, "OMG, maybe VdB was telling the truth!" Of course I don't believe he was, but it really was a possibility. Hell, I don't even know if he had a dog, but it is conceivable that somebody could make that ridiculous statement and have it be true! Of course it should be pretty easy for them to verify by showing the vet records and I don't remember VdB doing any of that.

Anyway, it was a funny moment in a sad time.
Kevin Metcalfe
California

 

[karlboss]

Ivan Basso was publishing all his data online for a while too.

I put it to you that Emanuele Sella has done more to help the anti-doping cause in cycling than the whole of Team Sky put together.

Basso still does. Though not so regularly as he did initially.

 

[taiwan]

Total side track here, but your statement reminded me of VdB's claim that the EPO was for his dog when they found it at his house. I had an old dog that ended up passing away from kidney failure. One of the treatment options was EPO. We didn't go that route, but if you did they would basically give you the EPO and syringes. I was really sad at that time, but I remember thinking, "OMG, maybe VdB was telling the truth!" Of course I don't believe he was, but it really was a possibility. Hell, I don't even know if he had a dog, but it is conceivable that somebody could make that ridiculous statement and have it be true! Of course it should be pretty easy for them to verify by showing the vet records and I don't remember VdB doing any of that.

Anyway, it was a funny moment in a sad time.

Kevin Metcalfe
California

Cool sto...

I mean nice anecdote, man

 

[richtea]

**** off all dogs

 

[ruamruam]

Total side track here, but your statement reminded me of VdB's claim that the EPO was for his dog when they found it at his house. I had an old dog that ended up passing away from kidney failure. One of the treatment options was EPO. We didn't go that route, but if you did they would basically give you the EPO and syringes. I was really sad at that time, but I remember thinking, "OMG, maybe VdB was telling the truth!" Of course I don't believe he was, but it really was a possibility. Hell, I don't even know if he had a dog, but it is conceivable that somebody could make that ridiculous statement and have it be true! Of course it should be pretty easy for them to verify by showing the vet records and I don't remember VdB doing any of that.

Anyway, it was a funny moment in a sad time.
Kevin Metcalfe
California

A greyhound tested positive for EPO a few years ago in Ireland and was disqualified from some race.

 

[noddy69]

why tho?

trying? Why is it necessary. Why "try"?
heheheh. Did you learn from Armstrong and Edward Bernays?
with that sponsor, are not they even more strongly buttressed, like having a cloak of "cancer"


Armstrong did it. Wiggins did it. Both were pulled because their blood values showed something other than normal.

See, this does not wash on the continent. Puritans from anglophone nations, have some belief in the ideals, untainted, that the contest can remain pure.

Why try ? It seems your damned if you do damned if you dont on here. If they didnt the question would be why are they keeping it under lock and key ? They are choosing the right way in that respect. They know they are under scrutiny and have chosen the path they are going to take.
Is anyone seriously saying it would be better if they didnt try?

As for the sponsor being anything like a cloak of cancer, well that is ridiculous. If sky got any word of doping can you imagine the response. It would hardly be along the lines of that other reprehensible defence. Again do you seriously think they would want their name associated doping, its not a fair comparison.

Naming two particular cyclists who did it is again not a comparison of note. This is a team with a big sponsor and a lot to lose if there is doping going on. They are doing it at a different level than an individual taking it upon themselves. So again not a fair comparison.

Did I learn from Armstrong et al....no. I just believe that it is through this type of action that the sport can start to really clean up. The more open to evaluation and the more open teams are then the easier it will be to catch cheats.

 

[richtea]

I would have thought they are just trying to create greater interest for cycling in a cynical UK marketplace. You can't conclude anything from these press releases, they barely merit discussion.

 

[Lanark]

As for the sponsor being anything like a cloak of cancer, well that is ridiculous. If sky got any word of doping can you imagine the response. It would hardly be along the lines of that other reprehensible defence. Again do you seriously think they would want their name associated doping, its not a fair comparison.
.

Seriously, why would Sky care so much? They're just a broadcasting company sponsoring a team because they think it'll make them money.

It's not like the team is sponsored by Unicef or the salvation army.

 

[thehog]

The journalists that spoke with Evans in a phone interview last week were anxious to hear how he plans to deal with Sky in the Tour.

“In the mountains in the Dauphiné, Sky showed how much depth they have. To go over the Joux Plane with nine riders, and four of them are Sky — that was something we haven’t seen for a long time in pro racing,” he said. “If they hold that level, they’ll have the numbers. However, we’ll have to see when it’s down to five or 10 guys, how many riders they have then.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/evans-hopes-he-has-answers-to-skys-dominance_225716

 

[Frosty]

FWIW (probably not much) i think they could well have 4 left in a select group of 30 on a mountain stage but by the time it gets to the top 10/12 it will just be Wiggins and one other.

 

[Climeon]

The journalists that spoke with Evans in a phone interview last week were anxious to hear how he plans to deal with Sky in the Tour.

“In the mountains in the Dauphiné, Sky showed how much depth they have. To go over the Joux Plane with nine riders, and four of them are Sky — that was something we haven’t seen for a long time in pro racing,” he said. “If they hold that level, they’ll have the numbers. However, we’ll have to see when it’s down to five or 10 guys, how many riders they have then.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/evans-hopes-he-has-answers-to-skys-dominance_225716

There was nothing suspicious in the four riders in the top nine on joux Plane. They were all riders who had shown the ability the be in the top nine in that field and with sky's training system of keeping their riders at at least 90% fitness for the vast majority of the year, they all had the form to do it. Maybe they were all showing better form than they had in the last year or so (longer for Froome), but there were reasons for that, e.g. rogers crashed a lot last year and had mononucleosis for a significant part of the season. The reason we haven't seen it for a while is that it's been a while since we had a dominant team spending the cash largely on climbers and because Sky's good form all year fitness thing has only been around through an entire team recently.

 

[thehog]

There was nothing suspicious in the four riders in the top nine on joux Plane. They were all riders who had shown the ability the be in the top nine in that field and with sky's training system of keeping their riders at at least 90% fitness for the vast majority of the year, they all had the form to do it. Maybe they were all showing better form than they had in the last year or so (longer for Froome), but there were reasons for that, e.g. rogers crashed a lot last year and had mononucleosis for a significant part of the season. The reason we haven't seen it for a while is that it's been a while since we had a dominant team spending the cash largely on climbers and because Sky's good form all year fitness thing has only been around through an entire team recently.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[red_flanders]

There was nothing suspicious in the four riders in the top nine on joux Plane. They were all riders who had shown the ability the be in the top nine in that field and with sky's training system of keeping their riders at at least 90% fitness for the vast majority of the year, they all had the form to do it. Maybe they were all showing better form than they had in the last year or so (longer for Froome), but there were reasons for that, e.g. rogers crashed a lot last year and had mononucleosis for a significant part of the season. The reason we haven't seen it for a while is that it's been a while since we had a dominant team spending the cash largely on climbers and because Sky's good form all year fitness thing has only been around through an entire team recently.

A couple of thoughts. One, if they are all riders capable of doing this, why have they never done that before, send that many guys over the top on a climb like that? Certainly after the amount of work they'd done all week it's fairly...surprising, let's say. Second, I think the real question is that if Sky are keeping their riders at 90% for extended periods of time, and that's a pretty open debate, how are they able to do this when no other team is doing it?

I would need a better explanation that those we've seen from Sky so far to even consider such performances to be legitimate. We've all seen it all before.

 

[hrotha]

There was nothing suspicious in the four riders in the top nine on joux Plane. They were all riders who had shown the ability the be in the top nine in that field and with sky's training system of keeping their riders at at least 90% fitness for the vast majority of the year, they all had the form to do it. Maybe they were all showing better form than they had in the last year or so (longer for Froome), but there were reasons for that, e.g. rogers crashed a lot last year and had mononucleosis for a significant part of the season. The reason we haven't seen it for a while is that it's been a while since we had a dominant team spending the cash largely on climbers and because Sky's good form all year fitness thing has only been around through an entire team recently.

Climbers? Who are these climbers you're speaking of? Wiggins, Porte, Rogers and Froome? Seriously?

The rest of your post basically boils down to "yo Sky have revolutionized cycling! Everybody before them was living in the Stone Age, so this is perfectly normal!" The second bolded part is particularly ridiculous.

 

[The Hitch]

And the climbers they actually did buy are on the giro vuelta schedule.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The Dauphine was a very weak field, the most surprising face in that group was not from Sky, and the climb time was not fast.

If they need to dope to achieve that, I shudder to think what OPQS have to do for their level of dominance.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Dauphine was a very weak field, the most surprising face in that group was not from Sky, and the climb time was not fast.

If they need to dope to achieve that, I shudder to think what OPQS have to do for their level of dominance.

 

[Ripper]

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