Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Graham_S

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Jan 8, 2014
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SundayRider said:
Armstrong and Ullrich looked like track riders all of their careers didn't do them much harm. Even at their racing weights they were arguably bigger built than Wiggins was during his track years.
Yep, certainly a big tick in favour of Wiggo being clean.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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Graham_S said:
Thank you, I was very pleased with myself for that.



Sadly true, but I didn't have some faith in the current generation I riders I wouldn't be able watch pro cycling.
Obviously nothing wrong with that. Just good to remember that the amount of science in these discussions is rather limited. Very unlike arguing the age of the earth. Here science gets used more in a similar fashion to infomercials. Lots of people (and teams) making claims of their own scientific superiority with very little evidence to to back those claims up. And as you point out, some people always have their reasons to have more faith than others...
 
Dec 13, 2012
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Comparison of Wiggins to Armstrong blood values in 09 Tour.
'Lance in 09 went from 15.5 to 16.1 HGB during the tour. Wiggins went from 14.4 to 15.2 from first to second rest day.'
 

Graham_S

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Jan 8, 2014
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SundayRider said:
Comparison of Wiggins to Armstrong blood values in 09 Tour.
'Lance in 09 went from 15.5 to 16.1 HGB during the tour. Wiggins went from 14.4 to 15.2 from first to second rest day.'
What does that actually mean?
 
pathetic

The Hitch said:
You're right. What are the odds on Michael Phelps to win the Tour de France ?
hitch as you are well aware that is a pathetic comparison.......if phelps was to become a cyclist he would be a sprinter

wheras nothing unusual for a pursuiter to become a road cyclist or vise versa

my post was merely adding reality to a members observation that wiggo had never shown ANY ability before 09

Mark L
 
Dec 13, 2012
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ebandit said:
hitch as you are well aware that is a pathetic comparison.......if phelps was to become a cyclist he would be a sprinter

wheras nothing unusual for a pursuiter to become a road cyclist or vise versa

my post was merely adding reality to a members observation that wiggo had never shown ANY ability before 09

Mark L
IF you look at my post I actually said he had never shown any ability to be anything other than a member of the gruppetto in a grand tour.
 

Graham_S

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Jan 8, 2014
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Benotti69 said:
It usually means doping. But no doubt Sky will claim machine error, just like Vaughters did with Hesjedal's in the Giro he won :rolleyes:
So.... forgive me for a silly question. Why wasn't Wiggins banned?
 
May 26, 2010
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Graham_S said:
So.... forgive me for a silly question. Why wasn't Wiggins banned?
Why wasn't Armstrong banned in '09?

Why did UCI try and cover up Contador's Clen positive?

Wiggin's 'never tested positive' :D
 
SundayRider said:
Comparison of Wiggins to Armstrong blood values in 09 Tour.
'Lance in 09 went from 15.5 to 16.1 HGB during the tour. Wiggins went from 14.4 to 15.2 from first to second rest day.'
I am no expert on blood values, but would the fact there where 3 mountain stages prior to the first rest day, and only one and a hilly stage between the rest days have some effect, Wiggins would between the rest days have been a protected rider so flat stages would have been relatively easy with his teammates keeping him out of the wind most of the day.
 
Oct 21, 2012
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Graham_S said:
So.... forgive me for a silly question. Why wasn't Wiggins banned?
Presumably because an unusual rise in haemoglobin value isn't enough on it's own to sanction somebody? At the judicial level, you naturally need a watertight case to prosecute somebody, and having just one suspicious indicator isn't going to give you that.

At the level of social media, that's enough to condemn somebody, and I for one think that to be fair enough (especially since there was no real explanation for the incident).
 
ebandit said:
hitch as you are well aware that is a pathetic comparison.......if phelps was to become a cyclist he would be a sprinter

wheras nothing unusual for a pursuiter to become a road cyclist or vise versa
Nope, it is as unusual for a olympic pursuiter pursuiter to become the 2nd best climber in the world as it is for an olympic swimmer.
 
del1962 said:
I am no expert on blood values, but would the fact there where 3 mountain stages prior to the first rest day, and only one and a hilly stage between the rest days have some effect, Wiggins would between the rest days have been a protected rider so flat stages would have been relatively easy with his teammates keeping him out of the wind most of the day.
lol wut, so slipstream only works if one is the designated team leader? Lol Brailsford logic right there.

Anyway Armstrong was also protected so your point is redundant.
 
The Hitch said:
lol wut, so slipstream only works if one is the designated team leader? Lol Brailsford logic right there.

Anyway Armstrong was also protected so your point is redundant.
How is the point redundant, where armstrong's differnces over the same period?

So are you saying Wiggins GC position after the first rest day didn't mean he would be protected?
 
del1962 said:
How is the point redundant, where armstrong's differnces over the same period?

So are you saying Wiggins GC position after the first rest day didn't mean he would be protected?
You clearly don't understand cycling. Being "protected" is not some magical spell that automatically saves people 30% energy.

On a flat stages 90% of the peloton spends the whole day behind someone else, and often soft pedalling and having chats.

Unless you are A) in the breakaway B) getting bottles or C) pulling at the front you spend the whole day in shelter. It doesn't make 1 difference if you are "protected" or not. Contador and others who really are protected sometimes don't even sit anywhere near their teammates on a flat stage. They ride around talking to eachother. Wiggins spent much of the tour side by side having long chats with his hero Lance.

Everyone is protected on a flat stage numbnuts. It doesn't make a difference where you are on gc.

Maybe an image like this will help you understand why.



According to you only someone who has been told they are the designated team leader, will save energy in that picture.

According to me everyone will. Why? Because they are sat in slipstream.
 
The Hitch said:
You clearly don't understand cycling. Being "protected" is not some magical spell that automatically saves people 30% energy.

On a flat stages 90% of the peloton spends the whole day behind someone else, and often soft pedalling and having chats.

Unless you are A) in the breakaway B) getting bottles or C) pulling at the front you spend the whole day in shelter. It doesn't make 1 difference if you are "protected" or not. Contador and others who really are protected sometimes don't even sit anywhere near their teammates on a flat stage. They ride around talking to eachother. Wiggins spent much of the tour side by side having long chats with his hero Lance.

Everyone is protected on a flat stage numbnuts. It doesn't make a difference where you are on gc.

Maybe an image like this will help you understand why.



According to you only someone who has been told they are the designated team leader, will save energy in that picture.

According to me everyone will. Why? Because they are sat in slipstream.
Thanks for the condescending tone, but none of that in anyway invalidates the point about being pre-demoninantly flat stages between the rest days, compared to 3 mountain stages prior to the first rest day.
 
Graham_S said:
Wow, thanks for all the responses. A lot there to digest. Everything I had previously read suggested cyclists were left to themselves for too much of their training.
It would be great if you could address some of the responses when you've digested it. You put a lot of reasons why you think they're clean out there in your first post. It would be polite to address the responses.
 
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