Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Netserk]

You're right - I missed that one, apologies. But the fact remains that it wasn't until 2009 that he really concentrated on the road.

Anyway - thank you for your advice about avoiding the Clinic. I'm going to decline your offer.

Also - ever seen a Goose? Looks like a duck, walks like a duck - but isn't one...

Clearly you haven't

 

[TailWindHome]

Interesting that you discount all the riders who showed at a young age in races like Tour d'Lavenir yet Wiggins and Froome showed nothing at a young age. .

Apart from the stage win in 2005 though


Seriously though I don't get how people lump Wiggins and Froome in the same 'came from nowhere' basket.......huge difference in their career development. Neither typical granted but hugely different from each other

 

[Justinr]

All English speaking. English speaking riders don't dope. You forgot to mention Evans, he won the Tour and he's English speaking so he couldn't have doped either.

It's time to take off the blinkers and have a look around

Evans is linked to Ferrari which is partly why I excluded him and also partly because I don't know much about him.

I'm not saying that just because they are English speakers that they couldn't have doped - hell one of the biggest (if not the biggest) doping scandals in cycling was perpetrated by an English speaker. David Millar doped - English speaker. I'm just saying that those are the only 3 I am confident of being clean in the last 25 years.

 

[JimmyFingers]

(I hope) no one argues that if they release BP info 'whispers would be silenced'. It doesn't work like that. Only if the rider actually was clean. Are you surprised that a doped passport released by Horner doesn't silence the critics? Doped riders won't benefit from releasing doped data, which is why Sky won't release it. So it didn't help Wiggins in '09. Guess why?

Who has it helped then? Has it proved any rider clean when it was released? Are clean riders lining up to release theirs?

 

[BYOP88]

Evans is linked to Ferrari which is partly why I excluded him and also partly because I don't know much about him.

I'm not saying that just because they are English speakers that they couldn't have doped - hell one of the biggest (if not the biggest) doping scandals in cycling was perpetrated by an English speaker. David Millar doped - English speaker. I'm just saying that those are the only 3 I am confident of being clean in the last 25 years.

Just wondering, what's your take on Wiggins returning to his pre-2009 road form?

 

[Netserk]

Who has it helped then? Has it proved any rider clean when it was released? Are clean riders lining up to release theirs?

I don't remember many riders releasing theirs. The few I can remember are very likely dopers.

If a clean rider did release their passport info, I think there would be more people who would find it encouraging and believable than people who would see it as evidence of doping (like the Horner passport).

 

[Justinr]

Clearly you haven't

If I knew how to post pictures on here I could show you a white goose with an orange bill and a white duck with an orange bill but technology has defeated me...

 

[Ventoux Boar]

To be honest its probably more to do with the fact that if you have a British passport you can travel around the world fairly freely, if you have a Kenyan passport you cant and you'd likely need visas for more countries. And also the fact that Kenya don't have a road race team that would get invited to the Worlds, etc.

That's as insightful a response to the nationality question as I've read. Ta.

 

[Justinr]

Just wondering, what's your take on Wiggins returning to his pre-2009 road form?

To be honest I haven't followed much of the early season but it doesn't surprise me if he's off the pace.

Wiggins is a sulker when things don't go his way or he perceives they aren't (witness nearly going home in 2012 when Froome pulled away in the mountains) and seems a bit p'd off with how he is no longer #1. He also struggles with motivation and getting in to it. The only person to really get his head sorted was Shane Sutton. My bet is that he's had enough / is fed up and will retire this year.

I haven't seen his physical condition - is he looking overweight? If so he probably lost the motivation to train fully.

 

[BYOP88]

To be honest I haven't followed much of the early season but it doesn't surprise me if he's off the pace.

Wiggins is a sulker when things don't go his way or he perceives they aren't (witness nearly going home in 2012 when Froome pulled away in the mountains) and seems a bit p'd off with how he is no longer #1. He also struggles with motivation and getting in to it. The only person to really get his head sorted was Shane Sutton. My bet is that he's had enough / is fed up and will retire this year.

I haven't seen his physical condition - is he looking overweight? If so he probably lost the motivation to train fully.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.

He looks bigger than he did in 2012. But not sure of his exact weight, all cyclists seem to be very secretive regarding that issue.

 

[The Hitch]

Digger.. that is right .. how cn you run the most scientific program in the history of cycling. Claiming to use science to generate marginal gains and yet have never tested Froome for VO2 ... really ?

Amen.

Yeah the one thing you can be sure with Benotti is he is even with accusations of everyone. It's an admirable trait in an arena where plenty of personal preferences play a part in who people think are doping

Who bases who they think dope on personal preferences?

The majority of the clinic openly aknowledges there favourite riders are likely doping. Nibali fans Contador fans Boonen fans.

The only exceptions to that are sky fans and evans fans.

 

[Netserk]

Amen.

Who bases who they think dope on personal preferences?

The majority of the clinic openly aknowledges there favourite riders are likely doping. Nibali fans Contador fans Boonen fans.

The only exceptions to that are sky fans and evans fans.

Tsk, tsk. We all know you defend Canc and Samu here 24/7, just like I defend Boonen

 

[The Hitch]

So because of that you hold them to higher standards than the rest of the peloton and are more condemning when they fail to live up to those, got it.

If you dominate the tdf in a way that hasn't happened since blood doping began, and claim to not only be clean but be physical proof of cleanliness itself, then yes you get held to a higher standard then nobodies who don't say anything. Seems obvious to me anyway.

 

[thehog]

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.

He looks bigger than he did in 2012. But not sure of his exact weight, all cyclists seem to be very secretive regarding that issue.

I believe the only thing keeping him it is the 3m per year.

He looks to be on autopilot and given away the Xenon cigarettes.

I'd say he successfully hacked cycling and won. The key now is to get out before Froome gets busted.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'd say he successfully hacked cycling and won. The key now is to get out before Froome gets busted.

No! He needs to retire and do a Floyd Landis delivering the allegations straight to UKAD.

We don't want whomever is in charge of BC at the moment spontaneously forgetting the multiple times an athlete reported doping allegations like Steve Johnson at USA Cycling.

 

[Justinr]

Amen.

The only exceptions to that are sky fans and evans fans.

Maybe because we prefer to support people who don't cheat.

 

[Justinr]

If I knew how to post pictures on here I could show you a white goose with an orange bill and a white duck with an orange bill but technology has defeated me...

Actually try this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry

Geese and Ducks pretty similar there...

 

[thehog]

No! He needs to retire and do a Floyd Landis delivering the allegations straight to UKAD.

We don't want whomever is in charge of BC at the moment spontaneously forgetting the multiple times an athlete reported doping allegations like Steve Johnson at USA Cycling.

No that won't do. Wiggins is the Hollywood equivalent of the ex-con coming back for one last job.

There's no incentive for anyone to confess anything. Cookson? Oh-ah! He'll hust the the team to write their own report.

Wiggo made his money, has his records and a nice house etc. He speaks the truth when he talks about family etc. No need to risk all that with semi-retirement on the track then a job to come propping up the bar.

Speaking of which.... to the bar?

 

[gooner]

Guys, do you believe Basso was clean for his Giro win after releasing his passport back in 2010?

I agree it would be welcomed to see it with Froome but would it really help change our minds in the process if it was somehow along the lines of OK, I have strong doubts.

 

[The Hitch]

To be honest I haven't followed much of the early season but it doesn't surprise me if he's off the pace.

Wiggins is a sulker when things don't go his way or he perceives they aren't (witness nearly going home in 2012 when Froome pulled away in the mountains) and seems a bit p'd off with how he is no longer #1. He also struggles with motivation and getting in to it. The only person to really get his head sorted was Shane Sutton. My bet is that he's had enough / is fed up and will retire this year.

Thank you Dr Phil.

I'm glad the years of careful one on one psychoanalysis you conducted with Bradley have allowed you to paint such a clear picture of what goes on in his head.

 

[BYOP88]

Maybe because we prefer to support people who don't cheat.

Can you 100% prove that Sky don't cheat?

Here's a hint, "never tested positive" isn't an acceptable answer, just ask Piti, RoboBasso, Der Kaiser and St. David of Millar plus a few more guys about that.

 

[Benotti69]

You're right - I missed that one, apologies. But the fact remains that it wasn't until 2009 that he really concentrated on the road.

That excuse has been debunked. Wiggins did concentrate on the road and he was nowhere.

Anyway - thank you for your advice about avoiding the Clinic. I'm going to decline your offer.

That you continue to post points to two possiblities. 1 you dont truly beleive and are hoping to convince yourself by defending the indefensible. 2 trolling.

Also - ever seen a Goose? Looks like a duck, walks like a duck - but isn't one...

Wiggins is a doper.

 

[Justinr]

No that won't do. Wiggins is the Hollywood equivalent of the ex-con company back for one last job.

He's made his money, has his records and a nice house etc. He speaks the truth when he talks about family etc. No need to risk all that with semi-retirement on the track then a job come propping up the bar.

He's a complicated (some might say strange) character - if you say he looks like he's on autopilot then he probably is, taking the £3m ready for retirement.

 

[Benotti69]

Maybe because we prefer to support people who don't cheat.

"Never tested positive" is coming......

 

[Justinr]

"Never tested positive" is coming......

Nope I wasn't going to say that. I've never been caught speeding but that doesn't mean I don't speed.

And to BYOP - can I prove 100% they aren't cheating? No of course not. But I believe they are clean - I've followed Sir Dave, etc. and his aims, etc. for years which is why I believe. Look back at what he and Boardman did with the track - every single element of the bike was analysed to see how it could be improved, e.g. seat bolts place in different positions because it was more aerodynamic.