Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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EnacheV

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red_flanders said:
Illudo didn't say anything about Swift in that post. Was there something mentioned by Illudo in the past, or are you just creating more strawmen?
He said about Swift 3-4 pages ago, cba to digg it up

Strawmen is just for others desperately trying to get to a conclusion without any facts to backup. Only some performances and one doctor that was fired.
 
May 26, 2009
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EnacheV said:
He said about Swift 3-4 pages ago, cba to digg it up

Strawmen is just for others desperately trying to get to a conclusion without any facts to backup. Only some performances and one doctor that was fired.
Well if you have the 'facts' why don't you enlighten us with them?
 
red_flanders said:
Of course the "proven doper" Contador not only finished TA, but won it, including stage wins, subjecting himself to as much testing as possible in that race.
It's a good thing we can rely on the cycling federation to process positives like they didn't-then-did for Contador and ignored Armstrong's irregular values. ;)

It's 2014, cycling has turned a corner and it's the cleanest peloton ever. Maybe...
 
EnacheV said:
He said about Swift 3-4 pages ago, cba to digg it up

Strawmen is just for others desperately trying to get to a conclusion without any facts to backup. Only some performances and one doctor that was fired.
He said nothing remotely like:
"...Swift he is doping because he is doing MSR"
He simply alluded to some potentially sketchy dottore relationships Swift may have.

If one has to make things up to try and make a point, one has no point. Let's try and keep this place a forum where people actually have to be somewhat accurate in their statements.

We get it. You don't like the suspicion against Sky riders. Sorry, but that's not going to change and posting about it is within the forum rules and normal discussion framework.

Making up comments and attributing them to people would fall into my definition of trolling, according to the following guidelines:

Trolling: trolling is a difficult term, with far-ranging definitions. The bottom line is this question: "is it destructive". If a post, or a poster, is destructive to a thread or the forum, by driving away conversation or other posters, they can be considered for warnings/bans. It can be considered destructive if the intent of the poster is nothing more than to provoke or "make fun of" other posters.
Bold applies to your false statements and strawmen. Mods, sorry if this is inappropriate commentary in the thread, I chose to suggest this instead of reporting the post in this case. Will just report trolling in the future. No worries if you delete these comments.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Tanx red flanders
the trolling in here aint funny. Not sure why the mods let it all go.
perhaps time for a sky thread part ll with a zero trolling policy.
 
sniper said:
Tanx red flanders
the trolling in here aint funny. Not sure why the mods let it all go.
perhaps time for a sky thread part ll with a zero trolling policy.
Says the guy who miraculously got a second chance, here.
Yeah, RF hit the mark.

Trolling: trolling is a difficult term, with far-ranging definitions. The bottom line is this question: "is it destructive". If a post, or a poster, is destructive to a thread or the forum, by driving away conversation or other posters, they can be considered for warnings/bans. It can be considered destructive if the intent of the poster is nothing more than to provoke or "make fun of" other posters.
As you did above and is why this thread is so..............endless.

lllludo questions Stannard's MSR absence.
He is riding DdV on Wednesday, E3 on Friday and GW on Sunday.
Kinda explains things, no?
 
May 26, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
.

lllludo questions Stannard's MSR absence.
He is riding DdV on Wednesday, E3 on Friday and GW on Sunday.
Kinda explains things, no?
So why couldn't he ride in Italy on Sunday?
 

EnacheV

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Jul 7, 2013
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BYOP88 said:
So why couldn't he ride in Italy on Sunday?
because he has better chances in the other races and would be better to be rested as the team leader on cobbles? after Omloop there is no debate about that.

pretty easy if you ask me but trolls needs to twist it to fit the theory
 
del1962 said:
Seriously is the new clinic meme that because someone worked with Sciandri then they are suspected of doping, that mean anyone at BMC last year including Pinotti is suspect?
Moncoutié rode for Cofidis, Bassons for Festina. Pinotti gets more leeway than most because he has gone out of his way in respect of cleanliness and has not been anti-doping in a towing the company line type of way but more in the Björn Ferry way. For the same reason, Danny Pate has a very good reputation on that front which makes his presence on Team Sky a very interesting aside in the debate on Sky. Swift doesn't have anything in his history to hang him on other than these associations, which are not quite the smoking gun in temrs of Sky's hiring policy that, say, Mick Rogers going on a training camp with a banned doctor, Vino, Kash and Levi is, but then the Clinic is in the business of suspicion, and he doesn't have any history of being anti-omertà or outspoken unprovoked anti-doping, nor have people come out and talked about him the way riders talked about guys like Moncoutié or Fedrigo.

We just don't know enough.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Moncoutié rode for Cofidis, Bassons for Festina. Pinotti gets more leeway than most because he has gone out of his way in respect of cleanliness and has not been anti-doping in a towing the company line type of way but more in the Björn Ferry way. For the same reason, Danny Pate has a very good reputation on that front which makes his presence on Team Sky a very interesting aside in the debate on Sky. Swift doesn't have anything in his history to hang him on other than these associations, which are not quite the smoking gun in temrs of Sky's hiring policy that, say, Mick Rogers going on a training camp with a banned doctor, Vino, Kash and Levi is, but then the Clinic is in the business of suspicion, and he doesn't have any history of being anti-omertà or outspoken unprovoked anti-doping, nor have people come out and talked about him the way riders talked about guys like Moncoutié or Fedrigo.

We just don't know enough.
I've highlighted what may very well be the first, and only, ever documented typo by Libertine. :eek:

:p
 

Justinr

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Feb 18, 2013
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Escarabajo said:
Quintana was a neo-pro. You have to compare apples with apples.
Thats right you must compare apples with apples.

One was born at and lived at altitude and raced with a smallish team recording a few results before moving to a big team and making a breakthrough.

The other was born at and lived at altitude and raced with a smallish team recording a few results before moving to a big team and making a breakthrough.
 
BYOP88 said:
So why couldn't he ride in Italy on Sunday?
You are one tough audience.
As DirtyWorks says. A 300 km race, which in all probability was going to end in a sprint, followed by three 200+km semi classic slogs around Belgium in a week.
Stannard could get a result in any of those, but not Sunday's slog.

Seems the obvious choice and not sure why it is even being questioned.
 

Justinr

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Feb 18, 2013
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CycloAndy said:
I can't speak for him but surely both sides of the argument need to be put forward.
Absolutely - the believers and disbelievers have as much right as each other to make their views known. Accusing someone of trolling because you dont agree with them is trolling itself.
 
May 26, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
You are one tough audience.
As DirtyWorks says. A 300 km race, which in all probability was going to end in a sprint, followed by three 200+km semi classic slogs around Belgium in a week.
Stannard could get a result in any of those, but not Sunday's slog.

Seems the obvious choice and not sure why it is even being questioned.
I thought Stannard got a decent result last year in MSR and the weather was even a little warmer this year. If he rode MSR maybe Sky could've won it with Swift. Yes he could get a result in those upcoming semi classics or he could crash out in the 1st and miss the other 2.
 

Justinr

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Feb 18, 2013
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red_flanders said:
"Hiding because I'm glowing" is a well-known, well-documented strategy, particularly when organizations start sniffing around your team because one of your riders has tripped the bell.
Indeed - and one that is more than likely to result in more random testing i would have thought...


Of course the "proven doper" Contador not only finished TA, but won it, including stage wins, subjecting himself to as much testing as possible in that race.
Undetectable Russian EPO and steroids no doubt ...
 

Justinr

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sniper said:
Tanx red flanders
the trolling in here aint funny. Not sure why the mods let it all go.
perhaps time for a sky thread part ll with a zero trolling policy.
Good post by red-flanders but there is trolling on both sides and a post i made earlier pointed that out. We are all entitled to our opinions but we (all) need to make sure our posts dont get out of hand.

Now let the argument and counter argument continue...
 
May 26, 2009
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Justinr said:
Indeed - and one that is more than likely to result in more random testing i would have thought...




Undetectable Russian EPO and steroids no doubt ...
Yes Bertie is dirty, but you Sky fans seem to believe that clean riders(which is however many guys are on the Sky roster) can destroy known dopers over 3 weeks and even match or better times set by the elite dopers of yesteryear.
 

Justinr

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red_flanders said:
No idea, but definitely don't confuse me with someone who thinks Condator is clean. All I'm saying is that typically, over the history of the sport, team-level abandons are a red flag. Clearly you can dope with the right prep and test just fine.
And indeed i dont Red. The combination of Riis and Tinkof and Tinkof's comments on Berty not being prepared enough last year prove why there needs to be a big clear out.

And you know what - i dont think Berty was very juiced last year. He looked completely shot in the mountains and not like he used to. I'm guessing but maybe the plasticiser incident freaked him and many others out.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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red_flanders said:
No idea, but definitely don't confuse me with someone who thinks Condator is clean. All I'm saying is that typically, over the history of the sport, team-level abandons are a red flag. Clearly you can dope with the right prep and test just fine.
Damned if I can figure out why the Sky fans keep this thread alive. It never drops off the front page, unlike the several AC doping threads in the clinic that are largely dead because no one insists on declaring him clean. If there's some new suspicion, the discussion is over in about a dozen posts. People either know/admit he's doping and move on, or the AC fans who don't want to think about doping just don't visit the clinic. So his threads disappear down the rabbit hole where you'd have to search a bit to find them. Unlike the Sky threads.

I hope Brailsford and BSkyB enjoy the irony of all the page views they give to Future Publishing :p
 

Justinr

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Feb 18, 2013
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Beech Mtn said:
Damned if I can figure out why the Sky fans keep this thread alive. It never drops off the front page, unlike the several AC doping threads in the clinic that are largely dead because no one insists on declaring him clean. If there's some new suspicion, the discussion is over in about a dozen posts. People either know/admit he's doping and move on, or the AC fans who don't want to think about doping just don't visit the clinic. So his threads disappear down the rabbit hole where you'd have to search a bit to find them. Unlike the Sky threads.

I hope Brailsford and BSkyB enjoy the irony of all the page views they give to Future Publishing :p
You're not implying Berty doped are you? And there's me thinking he should just change his butcher...
 
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