Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[the sceptic]

Then here in this piece he says 'When I was first diagnosed they said it had been in my system for at least two years, but it could have been there even longer, five or six years possibly,"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-free-of-parasitic-disease-bilharzia

'

If sky knew he had badzilla long before 2011, why is there no mention of it prior to the 2011 vuelta?

 

[Digger]

If sky knew he had badzilla long before 2011, why is there no mention of it prior to the 2011 vuelta?

Of course - but those two links alone do not add up. Two different timelines.

 

[Nathan12]

If sky knew he had badzilla long before 2011, why is there no mention of it prior to the 2011 vuelta?

Good question- another area where the journalists have failed to do their work. Because there's nothing- you'd think when he was undergoing treatment (as later statements say he was) after the Tour de Suisse 2011 he'd mention it. Instead he just talks about a cough and a cold.

 

[Digger]

It was late 2010 at the wedding of my brother in Kenya, when the International Cycling Union (UCI) checked me for the blood passport. I immediately asked to examine all parameters. Then she discovered that I suffer from the disease.''

 

[Digger]

“I'd gone to Kenya to see family and did the normal UCI blood passport tests. At the same time I said to the doctor, 'Can't you scan for anything that's not right in my blood?' He came back straight away and said you're riddled with bilharzia."

 

[del1962]

If sky knew he had badzilla long before 2011, why is there no mention of it prior to the 2011 vuelta?

Is it standard practice to publish all your teams illnesses in detail?

 

[Nathan12]

Is it standard practice to publish all your teams illnesses in detail?

No-but considering they've gone into such detail about it since, it is strange.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

No-but considering they've gone into such detail about it since, it is strange.

To be fair, they have more reason to offer public explanation for Chris Froome superman than they ever did for Chris Froome middling to poor domestique.

 

[the sceptic]

Good question- another area where the journalists have failed to do their work. Because there's nothing- you'd think when he was undergoing treatment (as later statements say he was) after the Tour de Suisse 2011 he'd mention it. Instead he just talks about a cough and a cold.

Maybe it was because no one knew or cared who Froome was prior to 2011.

But to me the thought process seems to be something like "Damn, Froome just went full genius and took the leaders jersey. This might require an explanation. Lets give them the badzilla and hope they buy it"

 

[The Hitch]

Is it standard practice to publish all your teams illnesses in detail?

No, but it is standard practice when you are asked explicitly about your health and you have bilharzia, and this has been identified as the reason why you didn't win the tdf the precious year, to say - "I have bilharzia".

Froome however did not say anything about bilharzia, just said he had some chest infection.

Very very weird.

 

[The Hitch]

No. That would put diagnosis and beginning treatment at around January 2010. It's hard to separate Froome's story from the mass of misinformed articles that have been written though. But they must be getting their story from somewhere.

The 2009 date they are getting from froome. He says it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGZUBtcN2Gk

Also iirc he says 2009 somewhere else as well but cant remember atm.

 

[lllludo]

Ben Swiiift

Sorry to interrupt but have you watched Swifty's new outstanding performance today ?
At the Vuleta Pais Vaisoco he's just won a sprint in front of little peloton full of climbers. David Moncoutie, commenting the race for Eurosport, felt so surprised that he felt the need to dedicate his first tweet to Swifty

https://twitter.com/DavidMoncoutie/status/454645275236524032

Another spectacular and unpredictable performance for a team SKY British rider one of those guys Dear Wiggo singled out a few days ago

 

[Gloin22]

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=8699

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=10966
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=10968
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=10969

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=23957

Pleaseee... from early age he was great climber for a sprinter as shown by his Worlds performance [first result]. He developed from then on. At early age he achieved those three results in the same race too showing promise in those tough sprints...

He is a mediocore sprinter that is a very good climber for a sprinter..

Unpredictable? The guy came 3rd in MSR and was in form in the Italian stage race. Maybe unexpected, but he has the form for sure.

 

[del1962]

Sorry to interrupt but have you watched Swifty's new outstanding performance today ?
At the Vuleta Pais Vaisoco he's just won a sprint in front of little peloton full of climbers. David Moncoutie, commenting the race for Eurosport, felt so surprised that he felt the need to dedicate his first tweet to Swifty

https://twitter.com/DavidMoncoutie/status/454645275236524032

Another spectacular and unpredictable performance for a team SKY British rider one of those guys Dear Wiggo singled out a few days ago

Tony Martin must be a climber now

 

[Nathan12]

At 2.40, they ask him about bilharzia. Video from winter 2011. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVVsbPJ4pJw

 

[lllludo]

Tony Martin must be a climber now

I bet you looked at the name of the 20 riders who arrived with Swifty today and the worst climber you could find was Martin, a guy who won Paris-Nice 3 years ago, didn't you ;-)

 

[lllludo]

] Pleaseee... from early age he was great climber for a sprinter as shown by his Worlds performance [first result]. He developed from then on. At early age he achieved those three results in the same race too showing promise in those tough sprints... He is a mediocore sprinter [b]that is a very good climber for a sprinter..[/b][/quote] There's a difference between being a very good climber for a sprinter and being a very good climber. Today there were 4 climbs in the last 60km & 1500m elevation. Movistar led a furious pace to prepare Valverde's attack. Only 20 guys survive and one of them is Swift. Guys like Nieve, Barguil, Dupont couldn't follow. So I agree with you. The guy is on top form right now. Kind of like when Jalabert, another sprinter who could climb, won the Vuelta

 

[ScienceIsCool]

I've looked into the life cycle of Bilharzia and found something interesting (please use Google to get tons of easily accessible charts and info - I won't bother with links). The infection happens when a parasite burrows its way through the skin and into the blood stream. That parasite (eating red blood cells for food) then matures and mates. Once mating has occurred the eggs are deposited onto the intestinal or bladder wall. Why? Because the eggs *must* hatch in fresh water. They will not hatch inside the host. They *must* be excreted. Why? Because the hatched eggs go on to infect snails. They finish their life cycle inside a snail which expels the parasite into the water.

So. Symptoms are caused by the parasites, as well as the eggs which disturb the lining of whatever organ they are attached to. The praziquantal medication is to kill off the mature parasites. Once killed, the mature parasites are gone forever unless you get re-infected. Any lingering affects are due to damage from the eggs which can both lay dormant, and cause permanent tissue damage. Praziquantal won't do anything for that.

So why is Chris so uninformed (http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/chris-froome-how-i-became-tour-winner):

"The bilharzia was huge because in our sport if you are tired and unfit, it is going to be tough. Basically bilharzia is the opposite of EPO. It sucks out the red blood cells and leaves you depleted. And it comes in waves. There are eggs [from the parasite] in your body and once the eggs hatch they start multiplying. That is why I have tests every six months. In fact, it has been awhile. I have to get back to Africa and check that out. "

John Swanson

 

[ScienceIsCool]

And why in the world would he state this on June 25, 2011 (http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8859/Chris-Froome-Interview-Ive-been-able-to-climb-in-the-front-group-quite-often-this-season.aspx):

"VN: Have you been happy with your year so far?

CF: Yes, it's going well but I've been a bit unlucky with my health recently, picking up a chest infection which seems to be lingering. No regrets, though. I've had some great days and some not so great."

I have no doubts that he has had Bilharzia, and may have suffered from the infection. However, the things he has said about the disease hasn't added up.

John Swanson

 

[DirtyWorks]

So why is Chris so uninformed (http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/chris-froome-how-i-became-tour-winner):

"The bilharzia was huge because in our sport if you are tired and unfit, it is going to be tough. Basically bilharzia is the opposite of EPO. It sucks out the red blood cells and leaves you depleted. And it comes in waves. There are eggs [from the parasite] in your body and once the eggs hatch they start multiplying. That is why I have tests every six months. In fact, it has been awhile. I have to get back to Africa and check that out. "

John Swanson

I forgive Froome for not being the first person that had/has an illness and doesn't get the basic facts about it right.

What I don't forgive is this disease was positioned as "the thing" that once resolved made him a super-grand-tour-peloton-destroyer. What a fantastic media story! We now know the last person to use it was a FINALLY labeled a total fraud and Froome did not have the lower ranked race performances to back up his grand tour podium.

Nothing about his story leading up to his grand tour podiums add up.

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=8699

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=10966
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=10968
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=10969

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=23957

Pleaseee... from early age he was great climber for a sprinter as shown by his Worlds performance [first result]. He developed from then on. At early age he achieved those three results in the same race too showing promise in those tough sprints...

He is a mediocore sprinter that is a very good climber for a sprinter..

Unpredictable? The guy came 3rd in MSR and was in form in the Italian stage race. Maybe unexpected, but he has the form for sure.

Still surprised Moncoutie though.

 

[RownhamHill]

I bet you looked at the name of the 20 riders who arrived with Swifty today and the worst climber you could find was Martin, a guy who won Paris-Nice 3 years ago, didn't you ;-)

Let's assume that's exactly what he did. So what, is Tony Martin a climber now?

 

[BYOP88]

Let's assume that's exactly what he did. So what, is Tony Martin a climber now?

Well, when he was 24 years old in he finished 2nd on Mt. Ventoux. The current best climber in the world, was getting thrown out of races at age 24 for holding onto cars whilst going uphill.

So if Martin is lucky and catches 'badzilla' and can lose some weight and not lose his power, cycling will have a German GT winner it can believe in.

 

[RownhamHill]

Well, when he was 24 years old in he finished 2nd on Mt. Ventoux. The current best climber in the world, was getting thrown out of races at age 24 for holding onto cars whilst going uphill.

So if Martin is lucky and catches 'badzilla' and can lose some weight and not lose his power, cycling will have a German GT winner it can believe in.

So is that a convoluted way of saying no?

 

[del1962]

I bet you looked at the name of the 20 riders who arrived with Swifty today and the worst climber you could find was Martin, a guy who won Paris-Nice 3 years ago, didn't you ;-)

No I didn't, I watched the race and saw that Tony Martin was pulling for Kwiatowski in the group. I didn't bother going through all the riders, I know guys like Slagter where in their as well, hardly a big GC climber