Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[taiwan]

There's a difference between cynicism and sclerosis. The Clinic is aptly named, peopled as it is by people incurably jaundiced. Still, as I said, there's entertainment to be had watching you all stew in your own bile.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

WTF do you expect? If your interest in cycling begins and ends with propogating the hype around your compatriots, go to the pro road section

 

[armchairclimber]

Not half as much entertainment that is to be had by watching the flat earthers, who all seem to be jingoistic British, wig(go) out over people suspecting the ludicrous rise of U.S. Postal, version 2,0. You can easily envision these sad sacks screaming at their computers when reading threads they know will be filled with doubts about their idol. It is pretty funny.

I am sorry you still believe in unicorns.

I'll be bloody sorry when that Nibiru lands on my bonce too.

 

[Darryl Webster]

My profile gives nothing because that's the way I like it.

I do know how much access you have to the inner workings of BC though, which gives me a reasonable insight into the relevance of your insinuations.

Your quite correct, directly I have almost no access , only previous direct experience of some of the people there. But then I've never claimed otherwise and the insinuations regards present day are not mine but, as I,ve already stated , from competitors much closer than I am.
Added together with what I understand of the physiology of the sport and what I know of the politics/ vested interests I,d say there's good reason to be cynical .
That is not the same as going " I KNOW for sure"..which I haven't stated.
As this thread is in The Clinic and is dedicated to the subject of PED use, both speculation and proven I,d suggest if you have a problem with that you give it a wide birth.
There,s plenty of threads dedicated to hero worship and fawning over the latest "amazing" performances to keep you happy and blinkered just a click away.
Whoever you are "Andy 1234"..you could go fill ya boots and never have to challenge ya faculty for critical reasoning ever again. Go enjoy

 

[taiwan]

I'll be bloody sorry when that Nibiru lands on my bonce too.

As if the phenomenon of teams juicing is a bizarre figment of someone's imagination.

 

[armchairclimber]

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

WTF do you expect? If your interest in cycling begins and ends with propogating the hype around your compatriots, go to the pro road section

That would be a good point if there was much discussion about improvements to procedures or any sense that, without being out of the woods, the sport is operating under a less dense canopy than in the past.

 

[Benotti69]

I like reading it...it's funny. Joseph Heller would have been proud of some of the madness. In the Clinic, everyone is guilty until proven innocent....which is, of course, impossible. So everyone is guilty.

Until i see a real will power to make the sport clean and not just talk about it now being clean, but demands are made for more testing and riders are prepared to publish their team testing for all to see, maybe then i will start to think innocent until proven guilty. But talk is very cheap in pro cycling.

Read it by all means and enjoy but making stupid suicide comments is not part of the madness but part of the patheticness.

 

[andy1234]

Your quite correct, directly I have almost no access , only previous direct experience of some of the people there. But then I've never claimed otherwise and the insinuations regards present day are not mine but, as I,ve already stated , from competitors much closer than I am.
Added together with what I understand of the physiology of the sport and what I know of the politics/ vested interests I,d say there's good reason to be cynical .
That is not the same as going " I KNOW for sure"..which I haven't stated.
As this thread is in The Clinic and is dedicated to the subject of PED use, both speculation and proven I,d suggest if you have a problem with that you give it a wide birth.
There,s plenty of threads dedicated to hero worship and fawning over the latest "amazing" performances to keep you happy and blinkered just a click away.
Whoever you are "Andy 1234"..you could go fill ya boots and never have to challenge ya faculty for critical reasoning ever again. Go enjoy

Fair enough, I'm glad you made it clear that you are simply repeating hearsay.

 

[armchairclimber]

Until i see a real will power to make the sport clean and not just talk about it now being clean, but demands are made for more testing and riders are prepared to publish their team testing for all to see, maybe then i will start to think innocent until proven guilty. But talk is very cheap in pro cycling.

Read it by all means and enjoy but making stupid suicide comments is not part of the madness but part of the patheticness.

It wasn't really a suicide comment...more of a metaphor/joke.

What amazes me is the fact that you all continue to watch follow the sport.

 

[BroDeal]

What amazes me is the fact that you all continue to watch follow the sport.

Another page right out of the Armstrong fanboy playbook. These Wiggins guys are hilarious. I cannot wait for the inevitable hating on foreigners for not wanting a British winner.

 

[thehog]

Fair enough, I'm glad you made it clear that you are simply repeating hearsay.

Hearsay (c) Copyright 2002 Livestrong Inc.

Never tested positive (c) 2004 Livestrong Inc.

 

[Benotti69]

It wasn't really a suicide comment...more of a metaphor/joke.

Not appreciated and there are more wittier things that could be posted

What amazes me is the fact that you all continue to watch follow the sport.

I think you will find the true fans of the sport in here, who even though they have their eyes fully open, they continue to follow the sport as much as those blind to the realities of the dark side of the sport.

The clinicians are not trying to damage the sport as those who criticise the clinic like to think, clinicians want to see a cleaner fairer sport for all, riders, sponsors and fans a like.

 

[armchairclimber]

Another page right out of the Armstrong fanboy playbook. These Wiggins guys are hilarious. I cannot wait for the inevitable hating on foreigners for not wanting a British winner.

What makes you think I'm a fan of Wiggins? I'm not that fussed for nationalism either. My favourite rider is Tommy V as it happens.

 

[BroDeal]

What makes you think I'm a fan of Wiggins? I'm not that fussed for nationalism either. My favourite rider is Tommy V as it happens.

Uh-huh. That is why you are inthe "Sky" thead venting your hateful bile at everyone in this forum.

 

[ferryman]

Not half as much entertainment that is to be had by watching the flat earthers, who all seem to be jingoistic British, wig(go) out over people suspecting the ludicrous rise of U.S. Postal, version 2,0. You can easily envision these sad sacks screaming at their computers when reading threads they know will be filled with doubts about their idol. It is pretty funny.

I am sorry you still believe in unicorns.

I would never use North American or South American or South European or North European etc as a generalisation. There is one jingoistic nation in Britain that you are meaning so why don't you just name it instead of being lazy in the labelling.

 

[andy1234]

Another page right out of the Armstrong fanboy playbook. These Wiggins guys are hilarious. I cannot wait for the inevitable hating on foreigners for not wanting a British winner.

Armstrong owns people like you.
He owned you when you admired him, he continues to own you now you don't.
Your frame of reference is forever skewed by his actions.

BTW, this is a Sky thread and Armstrong isn't even riding the tour this year.

 

[mastersracer]

Not appreciated and there are more wittier things that could be posted



I think you will find the true fans of the sport in here, who even though they have their eyes fully open, they continue to follow the sport as much as those blind to the realities of the dark side of the sport.

The clinicians are not trying to damage the sport as those who criticise the clinic like to think, clinicians want to see a cleaner fairer sport for all, riders, sponsors and fans a like.

These threads used to be a step above the RBR, VN, threads in terms of having posters with knowledge of the sport, physiology, and some technical aspect related to testing and interpreting results. If you wanted to know what a metabolite peak might look like, etc. this was the place. There's none of that in this thread - just unsubstantiated accusations that could be leveled against any rider winning. Wiggins seems to be particularly unpopular since he's a prickly personality, so he's getting more than usual, but you could pick any rider in the top 10 and make the same sort of boring thread. The irony is this seems to be a dull Tour with a lack of true GC contenders made worse by a number of team leaders crashing out (e.g, Ryder, Gesink).

If Contador were winning this year, this thread would be about Spanish butchers, whether his head has grown over the years due to HGH, his OP links, Riis, and his amoral nature due to attacking Schleck after a mechanical.

 

[Franklin]

Regards riders who have gone from no were to top dog:
Miguel Endurain jumps out as a modern example. Just posting for information.

And there we have people making up history again by just looking at the results without knowing his background.

Seems we need to trot out the pesky facts called history again :

Miguel Indurain was pronounced GT winner to be in the Pre-epo era and was deliberately brought slow. Dutch and French magazines were adamant he would win a GT and started shortlisting Miguel as outsider in 89-90 and actual top candidate in 91. Keep in mind that both in 89 and 90 Miguel was very good already in the TdF but simply stayed with his role as super-domestique.

Now unless every journalist secretly knew about Epo it's save to say somehow people saw the potential in Miguel even as a very young pro. Also keep in mind Miguel turned pro when he was very young, which makes his age as GT winner not especially old. Add to this his palmares as a young pro.

Now if we turn the spotlight to first Lance: Lance was an exciting strong young pro with absolutely no recognizable GT potential. He litteraly came out of nowhere.

We pan the light again to Wiggins. Once again we find someone who without any real potential suddenly gets a (relatively inflated)4th spot. The years after his achilles heel, climbing, keeps on hampering him, added is his less than exceptional mid to long TT skills. And whereas miguel won a mountain stage in the TdF, nothing remotely indicates that Wiggins will turn into the all powerful climber TT specialist.

So to conclude:

Wiggins does not match the pre-epo winners, nor does he match the first epo GT star, Miguel Indurain, who at least was seen as a great star to be pre-epo.

 

[Caruut]

I would never use North American or South American or South European or North European etc as a generalisation. There is one jingoistic nation in Britain that you are meaning so why don't you just name it instead of being lazy in the labelling.

Are you trying to say that the English are the only jingoists in Britain? If not, what are you saying?

 

[armchairclimber]

Uh-huh. That is why you are inthe "Sky" thead venting your hateful bile at everyone in this forum.

Hateful bile?
I'm taking the **** but it's from a position of bemusement...certainly not hate.

Way back in this thread I jokingly asked whether or not there are any cyclists in the peleton suspected of being clean. I'd love to see some names put forward.

For the record, I despise SKY as an organisation.
I know that Wiggins is riding clean.
I haven't yet seen any performance in this tour that appeared too good to be true.

 

[taiwan]

Hateful bile?
I'm taking the **** but it's from a position of bemusement...certainly not hate.

Way back in this thread I jokingly asked whether or not there are any cyclists in the peleton suspected of being clean. I'd love to see some names put forward.

For the record, I despise SKY as an organisation.
I know that Wiggins is riding clean.
I haven't yet seen any performance in this tour that appeared too good to be true.

Moncoutie is generally thought to be clean.

 

[Caruut]

These threads used to be a step above the RBR, VN, threads in terms of having posters with knowledge of the sport, physiology, and some technical aspect related to testing and interpreting results. If you wanted to know what a metabolite peak might look like, etc. this was the place. There's none of that in this thread - just unsubstantiated accusations that could be leveled against any rider winning. Wiggins seems to be particularly unpopular since he's a prickly personality, so he's getting more than usual, but you could pick any rider in the top 10 and make the same sort of boring thread. The irony is this seems to be a dull Tour with a lack of true GC contenders made worse by a number of team leaders crashing out (e.g, Ryder, Gesink).

If Contador were winning this year, this thread would be about Spanish butchers, whether his head has grown over the years due to HGH, his OP links, Riis, and his amoral nature due to attacking Schleck after a mechanical.

Which graphs are the experts supposed to be looking at, though? When the professional teams choose to keep fans in the dark then, in my view, they cause the speculation.

You know full well that most of the people on this thread are suspicious because of the manner of the (impending) victory, not just because he is winning.

 

[armchairclimber]

These threads used to be a step above the RBR, VN, threads in terms of having posters with knowledge of the sport, physiology, and some technical aspect related to testing and interpreting results. If you wanted to know what a metabolite peak might look like, etc. this was the place. There's none of that in this thread - just unsubstantiated accusations that could be leveled against any rider winning. Wiggins seems to be particularly unpopular since he's a prickly personality, so he's getting more than usual, but you could pick any rider in the top 10 and make the same sort of boring thread. The irony is this seems to be a dull Tour with a lack of true GC contenders made worse by a number of team leaders crashing out (e.g, Ryder, Gesink).

If Contador were winning this year, this thread would be about Spanish butchers, whether his head has grown over the years due to HGH, his OP links, Riis, and his amoral nature due to attacking Schleck after a mechanical.

Goodness me, a sane voice. How did you get in?

 

[thehog]

We pan the light again to Wiggins. Once again we find someone who without any real potential suddenly gets a (relatively inflated)4th spot. The years after his achilles heel, climbing, keeps on hampering him, added is his less than exceptional mid to long TT skills. And whereas miguel won a mountain stage in the TdF, nothing remotely indicates that Wiggins will turn into the all powerful climber TT specialist.

So to conclude:

Wiggins does not match the pre-epo winners, nor does he match the first epo GT star, Miguel Indurain, who at least was seen as a great star to be pre-epo.

Soon it will proved that Armstrong blood doped in 2009 and Wiggins was good enough to finish just behind him in that Tour. That’s a mighty effort for a clean rider finishing behind the greatest winning Tour rider of all time who was also using drugs at the time. And Wiggins has improved since 2009. Wow! All clean. Incredible.

 

[BroDeal]

Soon it will proved that Armstrong blood doped in 2009 and Wiggins was good enough to finish just behind him in that Tour. That’s a mighty effort for a clean rider finishing behind the greatest winning Tour rider of all time who was also using drugs at the time. And Wiggins has improved since 2009. Wow! All clean. Incredible.

Goodness me, a sane voice. How did you get in?

 

[Darryl Webster]

And there we have people making up history again by just looking at the results without knowing his background.

Seems we need to trot out the pesky facts called history again :

Miguel Indurain was pronounced GT winner to be in the Pre-epo era and was deliberately brought slow. Dutch and French magazines were adamant he would win a GT and started shortlisting Miguel as outsider in 89-90 and actual top candidate in 91. Keep in mind that both in 89 and 90 Miguel was very good already in the TdF but simply stayed with his role as super-domestique.

Now unless every journalist secretly knew about Epo it's save to say somehow people saw the potential in Miguel even as a very young pro. Also keep in mind Miguel turned pro when he was very young, which makes his age as GT winner not especially old. Add to this his palmares as a young pro.

Now if we turn the spotlight to first Lance: Lance was an exciting strong young pro with absolutely no recognizable GT potential. He litteraly came out of nowhere.

We pan the light again to Wiggins. Once again we find someone who without any real potential suddenly gets a (relatively inflated)4th spot. The years after his achilles heel, climbing, keeps on hampering him, added is his less than exceptional mid to long TT skills. And whereas miguel won a mountain stage in the TdF, nothing remotely indicates that Wiggins will turn into the all powerful climber TT specialist.

So to conclude:

Wiggins does not match the pre-epo winners, nor does he match the first epo GT star, Miguel Indurain, who at least was seen as a great star to be pre-epo.

Hi Franklin..Me finks I perhaps worded that badly..the example of Endurain I used as an example of the massive jump in placings from lowly to number one that can be achieved, not that I felt that was all achieved by PEDS.
I was a big admirer of Endurain both on and off the bike and your spot on , he spent a long time in the service of others.
Hope that,s cleared that up.