Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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thehog said:
I think they hired him "officially" so there wouldn't be under the table payments or working with him secretly.

If it was "above board" in a open sort of way they could at least pretend it was done innocently.

I think Leinders was hired purely for his UCI connections and for pre-race testing (not at the race but prior) to make sure no one tests positive.
And, BTW, hiring a doctor for 40 days is exactly useful for a training program. You don't need him at or near races. You need him to setup some kind of schedule and monitor it. Maybe that schedule includes doping, maybe not.

Leinders time with Rasmussen as leader of the TdF is all that is needed to bring Sky into disrepute. I recall the excuse was Fran's Google-fu was no good. Google as a background check. Yeah...
 
Sep 29, 2012
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red_flanders said:
Great post, summarizing things well.

The only thing missing here is the hiring in the first place. One of two things happened. Either Sky hired Leinders knowing who and what he was in the past, and either they knew they were going to get blowback at some point, they thought they could avoid it or talk around it, or they did it not knowing his past.

I find the latter very hard to believe. Especially since there were riders on Sky who would know what he did on Rabobank, and since Sky are so into every detail, it boggles the mind that they would not look deeply into the past of anyone they would hire, ESPECIALLY a team doctor.

So that (in my view) leaves us with the former, that they hired him knowing full well who he was. So they either did so thinking they could avoid it becoming an issue or not caring that it might become an issue. Again the latter is hard to believe.

It very much appears they knew who he was, kept it very, very quiet, and then when it came out into the open who he was and that he was working with Sky, they dropped him.

All that said, they could have hired him and given him explicit direction not to dope riders. Maybe Leinders was looking for a place to land where he didn't have to. That explanation does not match well with the increase in Sky's performance over the time period in question.

It is VERY suspicious, to say the least.
Let's not forget
1. the reason used for Leinders hiring was a bunch of riders getting very mysteriously sick and pulling out during the first week (ie little chance of using the "riders are prone to get sick when they are on the very limit of healthiness" type excuses, given the whole tapering deal pre-GT) of the 2010 Vuelta.
2. the article that was published before / around the time they hired Leinders, quoting Brailsford as saying, "We may have to relax our ZTP".
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Let's not forget
1. the reason used for Leinders hiring was a bunch of riders getting very mysteriously sick and pulling out during the first week (ie little chance of using the "riders are prone to get sick when they are on the very limit of healthiness" type excuses, given the whole tapering deal pre-GT) of the 2010 Vuelta.
2. the article that was published before / around the time they hired Leinders, quoting Brailsford as saying, "We may have to relax our ZTP".
3. How their results improved (in stage races) once Leinders was hired.
Wiggo became a Tour winner who dominated the whole season -12, and Froome made a transformation never seen before in cycling.
Measuring weights? :rolleyes:
 
The Hitch said:
How expensive was wiggos 2012 team?

Richie porte - on a buyers market, a lot less than Peter Velits.
Chris Froome, bought for minimum wage.
Michael Rogers, long time from his best, hardly super domestique numbers.
EBH - bought for sprinting abilities, not to drop gt riders on mountains.
Cavendish - bought to sprint.
Eisel - bought to help Cav in sprint.

Yep, such an expensive mountain team :rolleyes:
That about sums it up! Good post.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
Let's not forget
1. the reason used for Leinders hiring was a bunch of riders getting very mysteriously sick and pulling out during the first week (ie little chance of using the "riders are prone to get sick when they are on the very limit of healthiness" type excuses, given the whole tapering deal pre-GT) of the 2010 Vuelta.
2. the article that was published before / around the time they hired Leinders,
There were a lot of reasons riders were getting sick, part of it was diet, Sky tried putting them all on the BC dietary regime at the start and riders struggled (you may remember Scott Sunderland brought in a new chef fairly early on to sort things out), but a lot of those early illnesses were "diet related" so in some ways the doctor argument doesnt really hold water there. - And they didnt like having doctors who were more like GP's and wouldnt hand out cough sweets at the drop of a hat.
 
TheGame said:
There were a lot of reasons riders were getting sick, part of it was diet, Sky tried putting them all on the BC dietary regime at the start and riders struggled (you may remember Scott Sunderland brought in a new chef fairly early on to sort things out), but a lot of those early illnesses were "diet related" so in some ways the doctor argument doesnt really hold water there. - And they didnt like having doctors who were more like GP's and wouldnt hand out cough sweets at the drop of a hat.
Are suggesting they all lived in a dorm room eating the same food all he time?

Highly unlikely. No team bar say Garmin live in the same town.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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TheGame said:
There were a lot of reasons riders were getting sick, part of it was diet, Sky tried putting them all on the BC dietary regime at the start and riders struggled (you may remember Scott Sunderland brought in a new chef fairly early on to sort things out), but a lot of those early illnesses were "diet related" so in some ways the doctor argument doesnt really hold water there. - And they didnt like having doctors who were more like GP's and wouldnt hand out cough sweets at the drop of a hat.
The team started in 2010. Are you saying that at the end of the 2011 season (Vuelta 2011) when all of a sudden 5 riders got sick and had to pull out with a mysterious virus that it was diet related?

That they fed the team viruses? A new diet for just the Vuelta? Special order virus pasta and sauce?

:?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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roundabout said:
I think that was the 2010 Vuelta.
You're right. But still, a year of racing and feeding the team and then changing the diet to virus sauce seems pretty bleeding edge marginal gain.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUJZI7--Efk

2012

Through performance.....!

Damn right!!

Look guilty much???
The guy who at the next TDF would call doping questions disrespectful...??

A transcript of this should be sufficient to perform a reasonable judgement of Froome and the quality/validity of the SKY internal audit...

Comments section:

boy racer 1 year ago

all u mother ****ing dickheads saying about chris froome doping and that go **** your selfs. chris is the most honest humble man i have ever seen and he is a legendry cyclist. he recently just won the tour de france which was amazing to watch as im british and so is he so to read these comments about him being accused of doping is stupid. u should all get a life instead of acusing him of doping!
LOL
 
May 10, 2009
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mrhender said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUJZI7--Efk

2012

Through performance.....!

Damn right!!

Look guilty much???
The guy who at the next TDF would call doping questions disrespectful...??

A transcript of this should be sufficient to perform a reasonable judgement of Froome and the quality/validity of the SKY internal audit...

Comments section:



LOL
The funny thing is that he's clearly media prepped here to the hilt. But he was clearly terrified. That's the thing, when you aren't being truthful you are walking a tightrope. When he had that interview with Dutch tv a couple years ago where the bilharzia was mentioned, he became so nervous looking. Like a guy who was chancing his arm with the answer in the hope he'd be believed.
Wondering who was that came up with the bilharzia idea. A disease which us happened to feast on red blood cells...if it is advanced. Yet cound said it wasn't advanced.
Even now I look at froome's transformation and his motives (contract) and think exactly how much more blatant does it need to be?
It's literally the biggest and most sudden transformation we have ever seen in cycling. Not even Riis was as dramatic.
Sky fans, if he was that good, why was Mugabe Brailsford letting him go? Why was he only selected for that vuelta because of a late cry off from someone else...froome was f***ed unless he had an extraordinary breakthrough.
Crazy adaptive physiology from Poland to the vuelta...and jv wonders why he gets criticism.

To the sky fans...if froome was Spanish, had an identical career path, as sudden as he had, Would you be as quick to defend?
Kennaugh talked about Nigel Mitchell helping him lose the weight....cound said she had to take charge of Chris' diet...Kerrison was used as an excuse...then froome said he didn't rate him and liked doing his own thing.

The sky story makes no sense whatsoever...unless we believe the thing that actually requires hardly any assumptions. In fact to believe he's clean we have it accept this clear nonsense, we have to make leaps in logic, we have to give benefits of the doubt to people who have lied, to people with the most to gain. Who had the most pressure after the disaster of 2010....in favour of the simple conclusion 'we felt we had no choice but to do what the rest were clearly doing.'


Still waiting for something sky do which other teams don't do....
 
Apr 20, 2012
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red_flanders said:
All that said, they could have hired him and given him explicit direction not to dope riders. Maybe Leinders was looking for a place to land where he didn't have to. That explanation does not match well with the increase in Sky's performance over the time period in question.

It is VERY suspicious, to say the least.
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/wielersport/20480560/__Rabo-arts_Geert_Leinders_stapt_op__.html

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/952/Wielrennen/article/detail/915187/2009/07/03/Belgische-arts-Leinders-stapt-op-bij-Rabobank.dhtml

Leinders quit at Rabo because Rabo were cleaning house, why would he be interested in a job where the house was already clean? A fox never looses his tricks doesnt he?
 
Aug 4, 2011
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boy racer 1 year ago

all u mother ****ing dickheads saying about chris froome doping and that go **** your selfs. chris is the most honest humble man i have ever seen and he is a legendry cyclist. he recently just won the tour de france which was amazing to watch as im british and so is he so to read these comments about him being accused of doping is stupid. u should all get a life instead of acusing him of doping"



The amount of anger that Sky/GB fans have always amazes me.
Boy Racer posts over on the BR pro race forum where its a bunch of Sky fans who claim Sky are clean yet jump on any other rider especially non UK riders who hint at doping. I posted on that sight and got banned and I was never given a reason I certainly was not abusive. I do know I got a lot of abuse because I could defend myself and proved them wrong on many occasions. They are like a forum version of FOX news :D the only truth is theirs. I confused them by posting has a woman on an occasion. it was so funny.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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ray j willings said:
boy racer 1 year ago

all u mother ****ing dickheads saying about chris froome doping and that go **** your selfs. chris is the most honest humble man i have ever seen and he is a legendry cyclist. he recently just won the tour de france which was amazing to watch as im british and so is he so to read these comments about him being accused of doping is stupid. u should all get a life instead of acusing him of doping"



The amount of anger that Sky/GB fans have always amazes me.
Boy Racer posts over on the BR pro race forum where its a bunch of Sky fans who claim Sky are clean yet jump on any other rider especially non UK riders who hint at doping. I posted on that sight and got banned and I was never given a reason I certainly was not abusive. I do know I got a lot of abuse because I could defend myself and proved them wrong on many occasions. They are like a forum version of FOX news :D the only truth is theirs. I confused them by posting has a woman on an occasion. it was so funny.

Now RayJay what you've posted here isn't entirely truthful is it?

Enjoy your time on this forum. But be careful. They don't approve of multiple accounts and sock puppets either.
 
ray j willings said:
The amount of anger that Sky/GB fans have always amazes me.
Boy Racer posts over on the BR pro race forum where its a bunch of Sky fans who claim Sky are clean yet jump on any other rider especially non UK riders who hint at doping. I posted on that sight and got banned and I was never given a reason I certainly was not abusive. I do know I got a lot of abuse because I could defend myself and proved them wrong on many occasions. They are like a forum version of FOX news :D the only truth is theirs. I confused them by posting has a woman on an occasion. it was so funny.
I know why you got banned from that forum so I'm pretty sure you must.

I could tell you why here if you like, but I'm guessing you'd rather keep it secret.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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ray j willings said:
boy racer 1 year ago

all u mother ****ing dickheads saying about chris froome doping and that go **** your selfs. chris is the most honest humble man i have ever seen and he is a legendry cyclist. he recently just won the tour de france which was amazing to watch as im british and so is he so to read these comments about him being accused of doping is stupid. u should all get a life instead of acusing him of doping"



The amount of anger that Sky/GB fans have always amazes me.
Boy Racer posts over on the BR pro race forum where its a bunch of Sky fans who claim Sky are clean yet jump on any other rider especially non UK riders who hint at doping. I posted on that sight and got banned and I was never given a reason I certainly was not abusive. I do know I got a lot of abuse because I could defend myself and proved them wrong on many occasions. They are like a forum version of FOX news :D the only truth is theirs. I confused them by posting has a woman on an occasion. it was so funny.
BikeRetard is a hillarious place.

It's like a cult in there. They have no contact with the real world anymore, which is why they get so upset whenever someone tells them the earth isn't flat.
 
ray j willings said:
boy racer 1 year ago

all u mother ****ing dickheads saying about chris froome doping and that go **** your selfs. chris is the most honest humble man i have ever seen and he is a legendry cyclist. he recently just won the tour de france which was amazing to watch as im british and so is he so to read these comments about him being accused of doping is stupid. u should all get a life instead of acusing him of doping"



The amount of anger that Sky/GB fans have always amazes me.
Boy Racer posts over on the BR pro race forum where its a bunch of Sky fans who claim Sky are clean yet jump on any other rider especially non UK riders who hint at doping. I posted on that sight and got banned and I was never given a reason I certainly was not abusive. I do know I got a lot of abuse because I could defend myself and proved them wrong on many occasions. They are like a forum version of FOX news :D the only truth is theirs. I confused them by posting has a woman on an occasion. it was so funny.
That sentence violates two rules of this forum. You might want to tone down the personal insults, quickly.
 

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