No, my post wasn't directed at Campervan. I don't think there's a conspiracy involving the university, because in my view such a conspiracy would be completely unnecessary and therefore a gratuitous risk, small as it may be (or not). See my edit.
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Re:
don't underestimate: the news of Henao's blood values leaking into the press must have caused a bit of panic in the Sky ranks. I think they wanted to nip this in the but, be ahead of the curve, or what's the expression here.
I think promising "independent research" and including Sheffield Uni into the story helped silencing some potential critics back then. Or at least that may have been Sky's rationale from a PR pov.
edit: i saw your Catlin edit, and it's a good point.
ok, i seehrotha said:
don't underestimate: the news of Henao's blood values leaking into the press must have caused a bit of panic in the Sky ranks. I think they wanted to nip this in the but, be ahead of the curve, or what's the expression here.
I think promising "independent research" and including Sheffield Uni into the story helped silencing some potential critics back then. Or at least that may have been Sky's rationale from a PR pov.
edit: i saw your Catlin edit, and it's a good point.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they ever intended to follow through, just like with Froome's VO2Max test. That's my point - you don't need to get any university to compromise its ethics when it's far easier to just feed the media some PR crap and then forget about it.
Re:
capisco, and fully agree.
Froome's VO2Max test is an excellent comparison.
Sky feed the press with whatever they want.
Sky then don't follow up on it and the press don't call them on it.
ok, i'm a bit slow here.hrotha said:
capisco, and fully agree.
Froome's VO2Max test is an excellent comparison.
Sky feed the press with whatever they want.
Sky then don't follow up on it and the press don't call them on it.
Re: Re:
Really? Why didn't they just TUE him with steroids and withdraw him, or fake a broken bone and send him back to Columbia to recuperate? If they were doping him, i think its a fair assumption that his agent would have known about it (see the CIRC report for possible agent involvement). And if he didn't know, what would Henao have to gain by letting his agent to mouth off? After all he (Henao) wouldn't want to draw attention to himself. And that would also apply if Henao was acting alone, why shout from the rooftops about an odd test?
sniper said:
Really? Why didn't they just TUE him with steroids and withdraw him, or fake a broken bone and send him back to Columbia to recuperate? If they were doping him, i think its a fair assumption that his agent would have known about it (see the CIRC report for possible agent involvement). And if he didn't know, what would Henao have to gain by letting his agent to mouth off? After all he (Henao) wouldn't want to draw attention to himself. And that would also apply if Henao was acting alone, why shout from the rooftops about an odd test?
Re: Sky
Oli with the Henao's in Colombia when Sergio got tested
http://www.ciclo21.com/cookson-jr-sky-c ... -colombia/
@DearWiggo, the latest reports (from June last year) made no mention of additional tests.
Oli with the Henao's in Colombia when Sergio got tested
http://www.ciclo21.com/cookson-jr-sky-c ... -colombia/
@DearWiggo, the latest reports (from June last year) made no mention of additional tests.
'I looked him the eye and held his hand, I could soon tell that he was telling the truth as we stared wistfully into each others eyes, there was no way he'd do anything to hurt me or lie to me..........'
Re: Re:
Which doesn't actually answer the points I raised above. So - whats your view on those? Why would they publicise anything if they were up to no good?
sniper said:
Which doesn't actually answer the points I raised above. So - whats your view on those? Why would they publicise anything if they were up to no good?
Re: Re:
Plenty of dopers publish things.. It is common doper stragety to appear clean/transparent (see: Kreuziger)
If you have undertaken a ZTP it makes even more sense to trow something to the hounds...
If they held too much back, the narrative would fall... Easy peasy...
TheSpud said:
Plenty of dopers publish things.. It is common doper stragety to appear clean/transparent (see: Kreuziger)
If you have undertaken a ZTP it makes even more sense to trow something to the hounds...
If they held too much back, the narrative would fall... Easy peasy...
Re: Re:
Really? Why throw Henao to the dogs? Why throw himself in?
Realistically I see 4 situations here:
1. Henao is acting alone and unknown to Sky.
2. Henao is doping, Sky know it but turn a blind eye.
3. Sky are doping him.
4. He has an odd reading that is unexpected.
So, how do we explain what happened last year?
1. If he was on his own Sky could / would just dump him. No effort to protect him - ie no 'study'. JTL style.
2. Again, they could dump him - no proof they were turning a blind eye. Certainly why go for a 'study', why not help cover it up or pay him off? Why the 'study'?
3. Plausible, but why admit there are problems. If hes +ve then its a massive hit. If, as people on here say, they are protected then its not an issue - so why broadcast it? Why let his manager say those things - if they're protected then you brief him and his manager and he is officially 'sick'.
4. Possible. No cover up needed, withdraw him from competition. Be open when asked.
Thoughts?
mrhender said:
Really? Why throw Henao to the dogs? Why throw himself in?
Realistically I see 4 situations here:
1. Henao is acting alone and unknown to Sky.
2. Henao is doping, Sky know it but turn a blind eye.
3. Sky are doping him.
4. He has an odd reading that is unexpected.
So, how do we explain what happened last year?
1. If he was on his own Sky could / would just dump him. No effort to protect him - ie no 'study'. JTL style.
2. Again, they could dump him - no proof they were turning a blind eye. Certainly why go for a 'study', why not help cover it up or pay him off? Why the 'study'?
3. Plausible, but why admit there are problems. If hes +ve then its a massive hit. If, as people on here say, they are protected then its not an issue - so why broadcast it? Why let his manager say those things - if they're protected then you brief him and his manager and he is officially 'sick'.
4. Possible. No cover up needed, withdraw him from competition. Be open when asked.
Thoughts?
Re: Re:
Maybe Henao tested positive, and UCI (after consulting Sky) decided to give him a silent ban.
Everything is possible with UCI and antidoping.
If it really was Sky's internal testing result, I assume Henao was glowing so hard they had no other option than to pull him, not properly taking into account his loosely-lipped agent.
Fact is Henao had dodgy blood values (which suggests, but of course doesn't proove, blood doping), and Sky did not choose to go public with this. Everything else is a lot of speculation, the biggest (and least informed) bit of speculation being the view that Henao may have been clean.
the situation stinks, as per usual in cycling. No surprises here.
you're raising good points, but i honestly don't know. Yes, it's somewhat odd that the whole thing came to the fore like this.TheSpud said:
Maybe Henao tested positive, and UCI (after consulting Sky) decided to give him a silent ban.
Everything is possible with UCI and antidoping.
If it really was Sky's internal testing result, I assume Henao was glowing so hard they had no other option than to pull him, not properly taking into account his loosely-lipped agent.
Fact is Henao had dodgy blood values (which suggests, but of course doesn't proove, blood doping), and Sky did not choose to go public with this. Everything else is a lot of speculation, the biggest (and least informed) bit of speculation being the view that Henao may have been clean.
the situation stinks, as per usual in cycling. No surprises here.
Re: Re:
Fair comment - honest answer. Cycling never fails to deliver on the mystery front thats for sure.
sniper said:
Fair comment - honest answer. Cycling never fails to deliver on the mystery front thats for sure.
There's remarkably little evidence of silent bans in cycling as far as I know, as opposed to tennis.
Re: Sky
To be fair to Sky, being British they have to *** even when there is no need to. The similarities in talking points between British and Norwegian sports administrators/coaches/athletes is striking. It is simply the Northern European Protestant way to be seen doing the right thing, regardless of whether you are doing it or not. It is all in the words you say rather than the things you do.
Who are these people even addressing most of the time? Journalists don't care. Fans don't care. Sponsors don't care. It is all a big lie. Probably it is their own conscience.
To be fair to Sky, being British they have to *** even when there is no need to. The similarities in talking points between British and Norwegian sports administrators/coaches/athletes is striking. It is simply the Northern European Protestant way to be seen doing the right thing, regardless of whether you are doing it or not. It is all in the words you say rather than the things you do.
Who are these people even addressing most of the time? Journalists don't care. Fans don't care. Sponsors don't care. It is all a big lie. Probably it is their own conscience.
Re: Re:
Well yes but there's a lot more in the rumour mill at the very least.SeriousSam said:
Re:
Froome's fasttracked TUE was leaked, JTL was leaked. Henao was leaked. All that stuff was supposed to stay silent. But agreed that that together is far from clear-cut evidence of 'silent bans' the way we know them from tennis.
Regardless, Cookson and Sky, it's not a pretty sight and imo we have to keep an open mind to different scenarios.
(foto taken during Henao's 'research' period in Colombia)
Menchov was banned rather silently.hrotha said:
Froome's fasttracked TUE was leaked, JTL was leaked. Henao was leaked. All that stuff was supposed to stay silent. But agreed that that together is far from clear-cut evidence of 'silent bans' the way we know them from tennis.
Regardless, Cookson and Sky, it's not a pretty sight and imo we have to keep an open mind to different scenarios.
(foto taken during Henao's 'research' period in Colombia)
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