Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[bobbins]

Re:

Article :Has Team Sky kept the promises it made on doping?

http://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/opinion-has-team-sky-kept-the-promises-it-made-on-doping/

Launched with big anti doping promises and with its reason for being largely to show what can be done by racing clean, Team Sky has attracted admiration and doubt in equal measure.

As Chris Froome prepares to release the results of his physiological testing, Cillian Kelly of Irish Peloton recalls exactly what the team’s anti doping promises were at the start, and whether it has kept them.


Team Sky’s reaction to the power data debate was summed up nicely by Eoin McDevitt, host of the Irish Times Second Captains podcast.

He said during this year’s Tour de France shortly after Team Sky released a smattering of Froome’s data from his effort on Stage 10:

“Sky argue that their critics use whatever data they want to suit their own agenda and yet Sky’s own idea of full transparency is to do exactly the same thing”

If Brailsford is genuine when he states that the whole point of the team is to try and demonstrate that it is possible to cycle clean and compete at the highest level, Team Sky have set their own agenda and have consistently failed to deliver on it.

In the media, they are held to a higher standard than other teams, but this is of their own making. They have literally asked for this.

During the 2013 Tour de France, Brailsford appeared to lose patience with the constant questioning and issued a challenge to the media:

“Rather than asking us all the time to come up with some creative way to prove that we’re innocent, why couldn’t you… get yourselves together … and you tell me, what would prove it for you, what could we do?

“Get your heads together and come to me and say, well this is what we think we would like in order to prove to you beyond reasonable doubt that we are not doping.”

Considering this very issue is the entire reason the team exists, it’s a wonder why Brailsford appears at such a loss as to how to address it.

It should be his number one priority, every day of his working life.

Given all the commitments that have fallen by the wayside over the years, releasing power data, all of it, seems like a good way to get back on track.

Not bad.

It also points out that Richard Moore already was in bed with Sky from way back and now he is the guy to write about Froome's data due out soon. hahaha!

Moore is the Sally Jenkins of the Sky era. How anyone associated with Brian Smith can claim to have any credibility as far as doping in cycling goes is beyond me.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Apparently Pinarello has to pay that to keep Sky as Specialised and Trek were throwing money at them. At one point Sky were apparently very close to signing with Trek.

in summer 2012 there were talks about SKY riding Specy from 2013.
their initial contract was 3 years (2010-11-12) so Pinarello added 1 more year (2013) and it looks the rumors about risking to lose them were true.
they then re-upped for 3 years (2014-15-16) in autumn 2013.

2016 is their last contract year with Pinarello and Kask (for the moment no other renewal news)

There was also talk that some of the riders, especially the physically bigger classics guys (Flecha, Hayman, EBH, Stannard, Thomas) weren't happy with the bikes. This nearly lost Pinarello the contract too, so they had no choice but to collaborate and produce bikes that the riders were happy with.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Apparently Pinarello has to pay that to keep Sky as Specialised and Trek were throwing money at them. At one point Sky were apparently very close to signing with Trek.

in summer 2012 there were talks about SKY riding Specy from 2013.
their initial contract was 3 years (2010-11-12) so Pinarello added 1 more year (2013) and it looks the rumors about risking to lose them were true.
they then re-upped for 3 years (2014-15-16) in autumn 2013.

2016 is their last contract year with Pinarello and Kask (for the moment no other renewal news)

There was also talk that some of the riders, especially the physically bigger classics guys (Flecha, Hayman, EBH, Stannard, Thomas) weren't happy with the bikes. This nearly lost Pinarello the contract too, so they had no choice but to collaborate and produce bikes that the riders were happy with.

Flecha obviously still not a fan, he rides a Possoni.

 

[Benotti69]

Wonder when Sky will get their story straight on Froome, was it marginal gains? Was it a blood disease? Was it inexperience? Was it asthmas? Was it tactics? Was it weight loss? What was it???

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Apparently Pinarello has to pay that to keep Sky as Specialised and Trek were throwing money at them. At one point Sky were apparently very close to signing with Trek.

in summer 2012 there were talks about SKY riding Specy from 2013.
their initial contract was 3 years (2010-11-12) so Pinarello added 1 more year (2013) and it looks the rumors about risking to lose them were true.
they then re-upped for 3 years (2014-15-16) in autumn 2013.

2016 is their last contract year with Pinarello and Kask (for the moment no other renewal news)

There was also talk that some of the riders, especially the physically bigger classics guys (Flecha, Hayman, EBH, Stannard, Thomas) weren't happy with the bikes. This nearly lost Pinarello the contract too, so they had no choice but to collaborate and produce bikes that the riders were happy with.

Flecha obviously still not a fan, he rides a Possoni.

Passoni
Morris does not sell bikes

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Apparently Pinarello has to pay that to keep Sky as Specialised and Trek were throwing money at them. At one point Sky were apparently very close to signing with Trek.

in summer 2012 there were talks about SKY riding Specy from 2013.
their initial contract was 3 years (2010-11-12) so Pinarello added 1 more year (2013) and it looks the rumors about risking to lose them were true.
they then re-upped for 3 years (2014-15-16) in autumn 2013.

2016 is their last contract year with Pinarello and Kask (for the moment no other renewal news)

There was also talk that some of the riders, especially the physically bigger classics guys (Flecha, Hayman, EBH, Stannard, Thomas) weren't happy with the bikes. This nearly lost Pinarello the contract too, so they had no choice but to collaborate and produce bikes that the riders were happy with.

Flecha obviously still not a fan, he rides a Possoni.

Passoni
Morris does not sell bikes

You win the pedantic race

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Benotti69]

Have Sky remained silent on the Froome data?

 

[mewmewmew13]

Re:

Have Sky remained silent on the Froome data?

*crickets*
since Michelle hasn't released any statements I doubt Sky would enter into the convo

 

[Benotti69]

Sky had Froome for 5 years (and counting) and after independent testing we are told, not by his team, that Froome did not perform well until he lost some weight!!!

Well we have heard lots of BS down the years given to explain away the obvious doping, but this is up there.

So no magical 'marginal gains', not warming up and down, not washing hands, not pillows, not a nutella ban, not the pinapple juice in the bidon, not the staying out of the sun on rest days, not the no beer, not the asthma from childhood, nor the Bilharzia parasite, but it was because Froome lost weight!

I think the Queen should be informed that Brailsford cannot even weigh his riders to figure out how to make them climb like mountain goats and TT like cheetahs. If only Sky used their weighing scales more they could have had all the Giro's and Vuelta's as well as the monuments.

Stannard to lose 25kg and win multiple GTs. Heard it hear first folks!

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re:

Have Sky remained silent on the Froome data?

I'm going to double-post this from the Data Thread, as I really can't keep track of what's allowable and what isn't around here, and I'm tired of having my posts vanish.
----------------------


Still not a peep from Brailsford, Kerrison...or Knaven?

I imagine that Brailsford is staring at these numbers, mouth agape, with wonderment. "What are these mysterious methods of testing? What to make of all this elaborate machinery? If only we had access to such a laboratory in our own country!"

How Sky, of all teams on the entire planet, wouldn't be putting their most promising riders (if not their entire roster) through such testing, at least once a year, is mind boggling. In fact, it is so absolutely ludicrous that one might even be tempted to question Sky's credibility.

 

[rote_laterne]

Re:

Sky had Froome for 5 years (and counting) and after independent testing we are told, not by his team, that Froome did not perform well until he lost some weight!!!

Well we have heard lots of BS down the years given to explain away the obvious doping, but this is up there.

So no magical 'marginal gains', not warming up and down, not washing hands, not pillows, not a nutella ban, not the pinapple juice in the bidon, not the staying out of the sun on rest days, not the no beer, not the asthma from childhood, nor the Bilharzia parasite, but it was because Froome lost weight!

I think the Queen should be informed that Brailsford cannot even weigh his riders to figure out how to make them climb like mountain goats and TT like cheetahs. If only Sky used their weighing scales more they could have had all the Giro's and Vuelta's as well as the monuments.

Stannard to lose 25kg and win multiple GTs. Heard it hear first folks!

I think Sky is pretty consistent. Didn't Froomes rise begin with Leinders coming to the team? You know the doctor who was only there for weighing the riders? I guess the weight loss was more like a great gain, all the other things you listed of course contributed to the success as marginal gains.

 

[Lyon]

Re: Re:

Sky had Froome for 5 years (and counting) and after independent testing we are told, not by his team, that Froome did not perform well until he lost some weight!!!

Well we have heard lots of BS down the years given to explain away the obvious doping, but this is up there.

So no magical 'marginal gains', not warming up and down, not washing hands, not pillows, not a nutella ban, not the pinapple juice in the bidon, not the staying out of the sun on rest days, not the no beer, not the asthma from childhood, nor the Bilharzia parasite, but it was because Froome lost weight!

I think the Queen should be informed that Brailsford cannot even weigh his riders to figure out how to make them climb like mountain goats and TT like cheetahs. If only Sky used their weighing scales more they could have had all the Giro's and Vuelta's as well as the monuments.

Stannard to lose 25kg and win multiple GTs. Heard it hear first folks!

I think Sky is pretty consistent. Didn't Froomes rise begin with Leinders coming to the team? You know the doctor who was only there for weighing the riders? I guess the weight loss was more like a great gain, all the other things you listed of course contributed to the success as marginal gains.

Leinders is key. The only dottore in pro-cycling that brings his own, specially calibrated weight to the riders each morning. But of course, he doesn't actually weigh any of the riders, only teaches them how they can do so on their own, so that they don't risk their health.

 

[Jimsnchz]

When Millar got busted he was having dinner with Brailsford? Did not know that.....

 

[blackcat]

Re:

When Millar got busted he was having dinner with Brailsford? Did not know that.....

and that is just how they will like that.

did they not spin it as "Brailsford refuses to leave MillarTime rockstar "davey boy" I dress in Gucci Millar... even when his wife was back in the Midlands and pregga's (pregnant)... and he was such a stand-up man this dave brailsford, no wonder he came a knight"

oh, I forgot, I cannot use artistic licence to flesh out a story... only for the propagandists to spin us $h!t.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

When Millar got busted he was having dinner with Brailsford? Did not know that.....

Brailsford only admitted it years later. Brailsford was taken in by the Gendarmes for questioning.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

When Millar got busted he was having dinner with Brailsford? Did not know that.....

Brailsford only admitted it years later. Brailsford was taken in by the Gendarmes for questioning.

You gotta make such a leap of faith to assume Brailsford didn't know about Millar's doping.
Yet that's been Brailsford's story. The good man has forgiven Millar for lying to him.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

When Millar got busted he was having dinner with Brailsford? Did not know that.....

Brailsford only admitted it years later. Brailsford was taken in by the Gendarmes for questioning.

You gotta make such a leap of faith to assume Brailsford didn't know about Millar's doping.
Yet that's been Brailsford's story. The good man has forgiven Millar for lying to him.

Yep considering Millar's sister knew her bro was doping before he got busted and when asked, she said well everyone was doping. So Brailsford involved in the sport claiming not to know is ludicrous.

 

[sniper]

one of the truest pieces ever on Millar. Worth reposting:
http://www.crankpunk.com/blogs/crankpunk/item/751-david-millar-just-one-more-***-in-the-arse-cheek-of-cycling.html

Brailsford after Millar's retirement:

The Team sky principal, Sir Dave Brailsford, told The Independent: “The way he dealt with his past and spoke so openly about it and became such an ardent anti-doping campaigner, that’s genuine.

“It’s nice when you feel you can believe in somebody when they say something should be done the right way, and you know they have the knowledge of the wrong way and how to avoid it. He can help other people avoid it, too. He’s a big character, he’ll be missed.”

 

[The Carrot]

Brailsford can talk out of his arse all he wants and the press will continue to lap it up, until he starts losing. If you want a good example of this think of Jose Mourinho, a man who has always talked complete and utter rubbish in front of the media and when he was winning it was all 'he's a genius' and 'he's so good at mind games'. Now Jose's losing, his words are being interpreted for what they are, bllx. The lesson here is 'win at all costs' and you'll be fine.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Brailsford can talk out of his arse all he wants and the press will continue to lap it up, until he starts losing. If you want a good example of this think of Jose Mourinho, a man who has always talked complete and utter rubbish in front of the media and when he was winning it was all 'he's a genius' and 'he's so good at mind games'. Now Jose's losing, his words are being interpreted for what they are, bllx. The lesson here is 'win at all costs' and you'll be fine.

this

x infinite times infinite to the power of exponential trend #inchorent #illogical

all that matters is the W.

 

[blackcat]

anyway, the best climbers not on Sky are John Lee Augustyn and Jamie Burrow.

 

[Benotti69]

Chocolate is a marginal gain, so why are sky banning it (as if they actually are )

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26674253

 

[fmk_RoI]

After Bohannon I'm wary of all chocolate science studies...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Sky

Alberto trained with Nico Roche today. Here they are having a coffee:

Nico should talk to Dawg and ask for tips on how to train properly. Didn't he get the memo? NO coffee stops.
I bet Dawg did 7 hours today and then another 9 after he turned off his power meter. Cause that's just what he does.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Brailsford, boldly going forward because he can't find reverse...

The more we have achieved the more we have been put in a position of leadership in the sport more generally. We welcome the extra pressure and responsibility that comes with that. Because at the same time as meeting the main goal of winning bike races, we will continue to play a leadership role in moving the great sport of cycling forward to a brighter future - innovating, riding clean and winning clean.

...tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!