Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[42x16ss]

Re:

Chris Boardman said, you have to ride a bike downhill when you cross those mtn passes.

riding 6.7 downhill would not handle as well as a 7.3 bike.

ofcourse, geometry can change the handling a tad, lower the centre of gravity

TBH, geometry and frame design has more effect than 400-500 grams. Wheelbase and body position are the major influences at high speed.

The best handling bike I've had at speed is a Cannondale System Six that was sub 7kgs, although my current bike isn't far off and it's just as light.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

I remember in the 2013 Tour, at the Alpe D'huez finish, Riblon, Froome, Contador (both bikes), van Garderen, and Rodríguez all had their bikes weighed as it was announced during the middle of the stage to the teams their bikes would be taken at the finish line. UCI confirmed all 6 bikes were bang on the 6.8kg weight limit. Once you switch to the shallower profile climbing wheels for the mountains, maybe switch a few components to lighter versions, most of those bike around the more usual 7.1-7.3kg at Abu-Dabi would be nearing 6.8kg pretty easily just from equipment choice come a Grand Tour mountain stage. Some teams play off heavier/lighter equipment choices to reach 6.8kg limit like Sky, Tinkoff, Astana where aero frames are heavier compared to the teams like Argon, Katusha, Movistar, Lampre on the lightest production bikes at the moment, but not so much aero adantage will be using weights down the seat tube to reach 6.8kg because they won't want to use heavy wheel choices to offset the difference to get to 6.8kg.

Anyway, 6.8kg is soon to be scrapped completely, so there will be more an equipment war going on perhaps soon. Arguably the lighter climbers will be able to use lighter equipment than the heavier riders and maintain performance and durability the heavier GC riders might not be able to safely take advantage of or offer responsiveness in the heavier, stiffer kit. There will be an opportunity for teams and manufacturers to work together to reduce weight too as a competitive advantage, so I think we'll just see a level playing field like 6.8kg is now, but simply lighter and perhaps a little more fair on lighter riders like Quintana and Chaves etc?

Chances are the weight limit will be reduced to something like 6.5 or 6.2 kgs, just to stop insane one off bikes and keep all the major manufacturers competitive. Companies like Colnago and Pinarello aren't as weight focused as brands like Fuji, Trek, Scott or Cervelo, even though their bikes are at least as good.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

On the mountain stages of big races they do. Quite often when you see bike weights at around 7kg the riders are riding deeper wheels for flat and intermediate roads. Change them for 24mm wheels and chances are the weight is dead on 6.81kgs

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

I remember in the 2013 Tour, at the Alpe D'huez finish, Riblon, Froome, Contador (both bikes), van Garderen, and Rodríguez all had their bikes weighed as it was announced during the middle of the stage to the teams their bikes would be taken at the finish line. UCI confirmed all 6 bikes were bang on the 6.8kg weight limit. Once you switch to the shallower profile climbing wheels for the mountains, maybe switch a few components to lighter versions, most of those bike around the more usual 7.1-7.3kg at Abu-Dabi would be nearing 6.8kg pretty easily just from equipment choice come a Grand Tour mountain stage. Some teams play off heavier/lighter equipment choices to reach 6.8kg limit like Sky, Tinkoff, Astana where aero frames are heavier compared to the teams like Argon, Katusha, Movistar, Lampre on the lightest production bikes at the moment, but not so much aero adantage will be using weights down the seat tube to reach 6.8kg because they won't want to use heavy wheel choices to offset the difference to get to 6.8kg.

Anyway, 6.8kg is soon to be scrapped completely, so there will be more an equipment war going on perhaps soon. Arguably the lighter climbers will be able to use lighter equipment than the heavier riders and maintain performance and durability the heavier GC riders might not be able to safely take advantage of or offer responsiveness in the heavier, stiffer kit. There will be an opportunity for teams and manufacturers to work together to reduce weight too as a competitive advantage, so I think we'll just see a level playing field like 6.8kg is now, but simply lighter and perhaps a little more fair on lighter riders like Quintana and Chaves etc?

Chances are the weight limit will be reduced to something like 6.5 or 6.2 kgs, just to stop insane one off bikes and keep all the major manufacturers competitive. Companies like Colnago and Pinarello aren't as weight focused as brands like Fuji, Trek, Scott or Cervelo, even though their bikes are at least as good.

Wiggins favourite bike was a Colnago C45, IIRC

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

I remember in the 2013 Tour, at the Alpe D'huez finish, Riblon, Froome, Contador (both bikes), van Garderen, and Rodríguez all had their bikes weighed as it was announced during the middle of the stage to the teams their bikes would be taken at the finish line. UCI confirmed all 6 bikes were bang on the 6.8kg weight limit. Once you switch to the shallower profile climbing wheels for the mountains, maybe switch a few components to lighter versions, most of those bike around the more usual 7.1-7.3kg at Abu-Dabi would be nearing 6.8kg pretty easily just from equipment choice come a Grand Tour mountain stage. Some teams play off heavier/lighter equipment choices to reach 6.8kg limit like Sky, Tinkoff, Astana where aero frames are heavier compared to the teams like Argon, Katusha, Movistar, Lampre on the lightest production bikes at the moment, but not so much aero adantage will be using weights down the seat tube to reach 6.8kg because they won't want to use heavy wheel choices to offset the difference to get to 6.8kg.

Anyway, 6.8kg is soon to be scrapped completely, so there will be more an equipment war going on perhaps soon. Arguably the lighter climbers will be able to use lighter equipment than the heavier riders and maintain performance and durability the heavier GC riders might not be able to safely take advantage of or offer responsiveness in the heavier, stiffer kit. There will be an opportunity for teams and manufacturers to work together to reduce weight too as a competitive advantage, so I think we'll just see a level playing field like 6.8kg is now, but simply lighter and perhaps a little more fair on lighter riders like Quintana and Chaves etc?

Chances are the weight limit will be reduced to something like 6.5 or 6.2 kgs, just to stop insane one off bikes and keep all the major manufacturers competitive. Companies like Colnago and Pinarello aren't as weight focused as brands like Fuji, Trek, Scott or Cervelo, even though their bikes are at least as good.

Wiggins favourite bike was a Colnago C45, IIRC

That may have been the C50? Either way that doesn't surprise me one bit, they're possibly the best bikes ever made.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

I remember in the 2013 Tour, at the Alpe D'huez finish, Riblon, Froome, Contador (both bikes), van Garderen, and Rodríguez all had their bikes weighed as it was announced during the middle of the stage to the teams their bikes would be taken at the finish line. UCI confirmed all 6 bikes were bang on the 6.8kg weight limit. Once you switch to the shallower profile climbing wheels for the mountains, maybe switch a few components to lighter versions, most of those bike around the more usual 7.1-7.3kg at Abu-Dabi would be nearing 6.8kg pretty easily just from equipment choice come a Grand Tour mountain stage. Some teams play off heavier/lighter equipment choices to reach 6.8kg limit like Sky, Tinkoff, Astana where aero frames are heavier compared to the teams like Argon, Katusha, Movistar, Lampre on the lightest production bikes at the moment, but not so much aero adantage will be using weights down the seat tube to reach 6.8kg because they won't want to use heavy wheel choices to offset the difference to get to 6.8kg.

Anyway, 6.8kg is soon to be scrapped completely, so there will be more an equipment war going on perhaps soon. Arguably the lighter climbers will be able to use lighter equipment than the heavier riders and maintain performance and durability the heavier GC riders might not be able to safely take advantage of or offer responsiveness in the heavier, stiffer kit. There will be an opportunity for teams and manufacturers to work together to reduce weight too as a competitive advantage, so I think we'll just see a level playing field like 6.8kg is now, but simply lighter and perhaps a little more fair on lighter riders like Quintana and Chaves etc?

Chances are the weight limit will be reduced to something like 6.5 or 6.2 kgs, just to stop insane one off bikes and keep all the major manufacturers competitive. Companies like Colnago and Pinarello aren't as weight focused as brands like Fuji, Trek, Scott or Cervelo, even though their bikes are at least as good.

Wiggins favourite bike was a Colnago C45, IIRC

That may have been the C50? Either way that doesn't surprise me one bit, they're possibly the best bikes ever made.

Nope it was the C40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYkp2C61g7A

 

[samhocking]

Re: Sky

Favourite to look at. He said in the comic, he's never actually ridden one. He owns Ballerinis I think.

 

[blackcat]

someone tell sir dave we got nutella foodtrucks now in melbourne so fukc u sir dave

#nutella
#muscularchristianity
#foodtrucks

 

[Fergoose]

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

Not the 1st time a Sky rider has not performed. Maybe Thomas doesn't react as well as others to PEDs or Sky's PEDs.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

Perhaps the UCI sent another email to Typhoon and told them to lay off motors for a few weeks?

 

[Pantani Attacks]

The fact Geraint Thomas is considered a GC guy means he's reacted to the gas better than 99% of riders before him. Any time he climbs with the best it makes me sick.

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Re:

Perhaps the UCI sent another email to Typhoon and told them to lay off motors for a few weeks?

The battery in my moblie phone dies pretty quick in cold weather ... it ain't been warm at the TdS

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

It's not easy racing for GC when you're 500mls short

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Why would Thomas risk prison time for a one-week stage race?

 

[sniper]

Re:

Why would Thomas risk prison time for a one-week stage race?

pros risk everything.
that's why they're pros, and not one of the other tens of thousands of wannabe's.
willingness to take the risk is what defines the pro.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Why would Thomas risk prison time for a one-week stage race?

pro's risk everything.
that's why he's among the few hundreds of pros, and not one of the other tens of thousands of wannabe's.
willingness to take the risk is what defines the pro.

It's one thing to take the risk of a 2-year ban from cycling, and another to take the risk of prison time.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Why would Thomas risk prison time for a one-week stage race?

pro's risk everything.
that's why he's among the few hundreds of pros, and not one of the other tens of thousands of wannabe's.
willingness to take the risk is what defines the pro.

It's one thing to take the risk of a 2-year ban from cycling, and another to take the risk of prison time.

prison time?
is there a precedent for that?
it's not a real risk.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

"..If someone is fraudulent in a business, wouldn’t they be facing a prison term? I don’t see how riders taking drugs to win races and lying to their teams is any different. Bang them up and throw away the key!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A38643546

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

"..If someone is fraudulent in a business, wouldn’t they be facing a prison term? I don’t see how riders taking drugs to win races and lying to their teams is any different. Bang them up and throw away the key!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A38643546

That's an opinion and not that law, so why again is a cyclist who dopes facing a prison term?
Anyway I really doubt it would stop athletes doping

 

[CheckMyPecs]

People have the right to remain silent precisely because anything they say can be used against them.

 

[S2Sturges]

Re: Re:

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

It's not easy racing for GC when you're 500mls short

Tonight GT still lost 1:08 to TJ despite being dragged most of the way up the hill by the walking Russian lab experiment Kiryienka, who some might remember as being a TT guy and not a climber...

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Forrgot to add two things. Somewhere in the back of my mind I have a DVD of a commentary where Rob Hayles is talking about professional punctures and spoke breakages. Apparently he is well versed in the black art but viewed Tom Southam as the ultimate - able to break a spoke at will, whenever convenient. I am pretty sure it was a BBC commentary with Hugh Porter, but it will take me time to look it out. I know I would have put it aside and not wiped it without putting it to DVD. I was shocked at the straight forward way he was describing his cheating. The guy is a professional wrestler every bit as much as his dad was.

Blackcat thanks for seconding me ! Mighty privileged !

now, Libertine Seguros knows her sheeit, she is brilliant with cycling information in the first part of the 2000 decade, right thru to now, but I was pretty similar, but stopped following cycling from about 2008/7, now I just bother with the $h!ts and giggles on the Clinic. I was in a taxi cab in Melbourne, with an Eritrean cab driver, and then I said, oh, there is an Eritrean cycling rider on an Australian team in Europe, and attempted to pronounce his name correctly, Daniel Teklahaimanot. And know he rode high on GC in the cote d'Ivoire tour, circa 2006. Now, no one else in the world would have known that.

Point is, if I was placed in a room with FreddieTheFrog, LibertineSeguros, and myself(obviously/tautology)... then we could triangulate truth from fiction, without even needing to go to internet achives and race archive. Now, some folks have called me on posting when I add a qualifier "I think"... but this is not to bull$!t or lie, its the opposite, it is a caveat because I am not 100% certain. And my memory has waned since i stopped taking an interest in cycling. A bit like Dale Parker eh. OK, so I may have got my science wrong on the technical side of the mass spectrometer gas chromatography assay. But I always was away of cortisone and corticosteroids being catabolic, tho I may have been clumsy in the analogy invoking them.

But, the memory was nigh autistic, seriously esoteric stuff. With Libertine, and Freddy, we could parse and intuit bull$h!t from truth, fact from fiction.

Now, if you are one of the dissemblers and fabulists, your mistruths and fables will not be anchored by an actual occurrence, you will not be able to remember an actual act, you will have to remember telling the actual lie. And not many liers will actually remember the lies they have told. I have caught JV in numerous contradictions, like the one he used to "go-to", his go-to PR propaganda anti-doping line, on Roger Legeay and telling Roger he would dope for a result for Roger and Roger dissuading him and then not having the cortisone injection with the bee sting or wasp sting...

If you can create an archive of a memory and pattern of acts, and then put them into an algorithm, say, like Google, you can quickly ascertain if someone is just engaging in fiction.

Those who lie, will never remember all the individual decisions, acts, and how they presented the fiction as reality.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

yes! great memory Digger.

Danielson part Inuit!!! blubber, only processes phats and Biggie Smalls, or Biggy Smalls.

@theHog how about this!

reminds me of a footballer from Essendon Bombers, Dean Rioli, never met a fried turtle he did not like

if its not gluten free, its whale and seal phat (sic).

JV transcended marginal gains, he never gave them a weasel word <tell>, he just seeded the devices

If Kohli can put on 150 today it will prove spicey food will be the new marginal gain.

Watto, still on the pies?

Watto came good for the 20/20 world cup, bowling less pies, midriff less pies more lipotropin like wiggins and froome. his last 6 months, he threw the kitchen sink at his legacy... trying to create some positive memories for a very milquetoast career.

if one can use an amplifier like very, for an absolute noun, tho used as adjective, milquestoast.


lets just say, watto, pies or no pies, midriff pies or no pies, he was a quintessential milquetoast cricketer. could not bat, could not bowl. joe the camerman, but ambidextrous. a little like big show Maxwell. big show or onanism?

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Why would Thomas risk prison time for a one-week stage race?

Um, I was suggesting that he's more concerned about July