Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Meanwhile, JTL, a newly signed Sky rider, gets busted and banned. Thus transferring some of his stink onto Sky, and demonstrating that Sky aren't protected.

Clearly, JTL getting banned was highly beneficial to Sky

Both the Menchov and the JTL passport cases were opened under the McQuaid Presidency. Perhaps a parting gift for the new President

Menchov for Markov, JTL for the former board member of Sky

So you're saying they aren't protected or they are? After all Sky had doped themselves to 2 tdf wins before the JTL case - so were they protected then?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Meanwhile, JTL, a newly signed Sky rider, gets busted and banned. Thus transferring some of his stink onto Sky, and demonstrating that Sky aren't protected.

Clearly, JTL getting banned was highly beneficial to Sky

Both the Menchov and the JTL passport cases were opened under the McQuaid Presidency. Perhaps a parting gift for the new President

Menchov for Markov, JTL for the former board member of Sky

So you're saying they aren't protected or they are? After all Sky had doped themselves to 2 tdf wins before the JTL case - so were they protected then?

Neither, I thought important to correct that those cases were opened by the UCI (as opposed to CADF) in the McQuaid era. The machinations at that time between McQuaid & Cookson was most interesting.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Meanwhile, JTL, a newly signed Sky rider, gets busted and banned. Thus transferring some of his stink onto Sky, and demonstrating that Sky aren't protected.

Clearly, JTL getting banned was highly beneficial to Sky

Both the Menchov and the JTL passport cases were opened under the McQuaid Presidency. Perhaps a parting gift for the new President

Menchov for Markov, JTL for the former board member of Sky

So you're saying they aren't protected or they are? After all Sky had doped themselves to 2 tdf wins before the JTL case - so were they protected then?

Neither, I thought important to correct that those cases were opened by the UCI (as opposed to CADF) in the McQuaid era. The machinations at that time between McQuaid & Cookson was most interesting.

Ah yes true - no CADF then, forgot about that.

Yes - there is always a 'bit' (lol) of politics at the top of federations, etc.

 

[domination]

Re: Sky

So if Sky/British Cycling are complicit in a comprehensive doping programme can anybody explain why some British cyclists are willing to burn their bridges and report institutionalised bullying etc, yet refrain from mentioning being pumped full of drugs? If you're sticking your head above the parapet surely you'd go for the big old pay day and bring the entire house crashing down?

Hmmm...almost as if there is no doping.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Sky

So if Sky/British Cycling are complicit in a comprehensive doping programme can anybody explain why some British cyclists are willing to burn their bridges and report institutionalised bullying etc, yet refrain from mentioning being pumped full of drugs? If you're sticking your head above the parapet surely you'd go for the big old pay day and bring the entire house crashing down?

Hmmm...almost as if there is no doping.

"almost" is quite a euphemism there, if it is meant to characterize the gap between the possibility everything Sky managed over the last 5 years being clean, and the possibility that at least some of those frauds are doping.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

So if Sky/British Cycling are complicit in a comprehensive doping programme can anybody explain why some British cyclists are willing to burn their bridges and report institutionalised bullying etc, yet refrain from mentioning being pumped full of drugs? If you're sticking your head above the parapet surely you'd go for the big old pay day and bring the entire house crashing down?

Hmmm...almost as if there is no doping.

What big pay day?

Can you point to all the rich whistleblowers?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Sky

explain why some British cyclists are willing to burn their bridges and report institutionalised bullying etc, yet refrain from mentioning being pumped full of drugs?

If I blow the whistle on bullying, I am innocent, I am the victim, I command your sympathy.

If I blow the whistle on doping, I am guilty, I am the culprit, I command your scorn.

Really, if you stopped and thought about it for even thirty seconds, you'd see how the two don't compare.

 

[rick james]

Re: Sky

So if Sky/British Cycling are complicit in a comprehensive doping programme can anybody explain why some British cyclists are willing to burn their bridges and report institutionalised bullying etc, yet refrain from mentioning being pumped full of drugs? If you're sticking your head above the parapet surely you'd go for the big old pay day and bring the entire house crashing down?

Hmmm...almost as if there is no doping.

What big pay day?

Can you point to all the rich whistleblowers?

The Murdoch empire has many enemies, yet none can pay enough to bring them down, weird stuff, all these people want big pays offs for their stories

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

So if Sky/British Cycling are complicit in a comprehensive doping programme can anybody explain why some British cyclists are willing to burn their bridges and report institutionalised bullying etc, yet refrain from mentioning being pumped full of drugs? If you're sticking your head above the parapet surely you'd go for the big old pay day and bring the entire house crashing down?

Hmmm...almost as if there is no doping.

What big pay day?

Can you point to all the rich whistleblowers?

The Murdoch empire has many enemies, yet none can pay enough to bring them down, weird stuff, all these people want big pays offs for their stories

So you have no big pay day whistleblowers to give as an example?

The Murdoch empire is vast, so there should be lots of people who got rich blowing the whistle on his various nefarious activities?

Landis got rich blowing the whistle? Stepanovs? Kimmage? Bassons? Voet? Swart? O'Reilly?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Sky

The Murdoch empire has many enemies, yet none can pay enough to bring them down, weird stuff, all these people want big pays offs for their stories

Where were these enemies during the phonehacking years? Why weren't they paying to bring Murdoch down then? Mad.

 

[Benotti69]

Whistleblowing....

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11684493

Kiwi athlete Zane Robertson received death threats for talking about the problem of doping in Kenya.

..........

 

[Benotti69]

Matthew Syed's a "member of the FA’s High Performance Committee alongside Sir Dave Brailsford". Conflict of interest.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Sky

This is also why you'll never see a 60-70kg GC rider ever contemplating the pursuit event. Even the hour record is no longer within reach of a GC rider because you simply need more muscle in the upper body to not loose time off the start.

By strange coincidence I was just this morning reading this from Froome's 2015 Q&A session on Twitter:

"Among the answers, Froome said that an attempt at the Hour Record may be ‘on the cards’, and that he thought Bradley Wiggins had ‘a good chance’ of winning Paris-Roubaix."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/chris-froome-on-lloyd-mondorys-epo-positive-what-an-idiot-161952

I know his weight is estimated anywhere from 66-71kg over the last few years, but it seems he/Brailsford could once again rewrite the rules on everything we know about cycling.

If they want.

Just like Wiggins, Froome will spend several months even a year building upper body and arm strength up. He could also take on other events on the way and some one day races. Wiggins took on Hour record only after gaining 7kg on his upper body and arms in the gym. If he took it on at his GC weight in 2013 he'd never have broken the record by as much as he did.
The hour is the purest test without variables, Froome would struggle to beat even Dowsetts distance without any upper body muscle. He's not powerful enough until he does. Fast once rolling, but the most extreme efforts in a GC are rarely more than 30mins. He'd have to train and ride actual hour distances during training to be good enough. It would be a minimum 6 month project to change his body and perfect the distance and effort.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Sky

So if Sky/British Cycling are complicit in a comprehensive doping programme can anybody explain why some British cyclists are willing to burn their bridges and report institutionalised bullying etc, yet refrain from mentioning being pumped full of drugs? If you're sticking your head above the parapet surely you'd go for the big old pay day and bring the entire house crashing down?

Hmmm...almost as if there is no doping.

What big pay day?

Can you point to all the rich whistleblowers?

The Murdoch empire has many enemies, yet none can pay enough to bring them down, weird stuff, all these people want big pays offs for their stories

So you have no big pay day whistleblowers to give as an example?

The Murdoch empire is vast, so there should be lots of people who got rich blowing the whistle on his various nefarious activities?

Landis got rich blowing the whistle? Stepanovs? Kimmage? Bassons? Voet? Swart? O'Reilly?

You are aware Team Sky sponsorship is less than 2% of Sky's total UK marketing budget. Cycling is simply too small and Sky's investment too small to ever be a factor in any Murdoch bashing. Just like Nike and Armstrong it's peanut money really.

 

[elduggo]

Re: Re:

Meanwhile, JTL, a newly signed Sky rider, gets busted and banned. Thus transferring some of his stink onto Sky, and demonstrating that Sky aren't protected.

Clearly, JTL getting banned was highly beneficial to Sky

yes, and it would make one wonder if the whole reason Sky signed him was to scapegoat him to make it look like they were playing by the rules.

Just think about it. This rider. Putting in performance he clearly shouldn't be. British. Kind of a dream come true for Sky. They sign him. He's clearly not doping with Sky, based on his performances. They get their mouthpiece, Walsh, to blow the story.

This is from JTL himself

I guess the team wanted to find a way to navigate around the situation but they wanted me to be transparent, so they told me to keep it vague. I was told what to write on Twitter. I don’t think there was a leak from the UCI, I was just a number but that number conveniently went to David Walsh. I’m not sure how that came about and there are various theories.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/an-exclusive-interview-with-jonathan-tiernan-locke/

Its all a bit too convenient and perfect to be anything but a set-up.

And sorry if I'm rehashing whats been said on here before, but to suggest that JTL getting busted somehow suggests Sky aren't protected, is nonsense.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

You are aware Team Sky sponsorship is less than 2% of Sky's total UK marketing budget. Cycling is simply too small and Sky's investment too small to ever be a factor in any Murdoch bashing. Just like Nike and Armstrong it's peanut money really.

I am aware the TeamSky is a pet project for James Murdoch. The question was asked why no one has blown the whistle on it?

So peanut money is not going to make someone want to blow the whistle! Agreed, never mind the harassment, bullying and ostracisation.

 

[Yokohama]

Re: Sky

Just like Wiggins, Froome will spend several months even a year building upper body and arm strength up. He could also take on other events on the way and some one day races. Wiggins took on Hour record only after gaining 7kg on his upper body and arms in the gym. If he took it on at his GC weight in 2013 he'd never have broken the record by as much as he did.
The hour is the purest test without variables, Froome would struggle to beat even Dowsetts distance without any upper body muscle. He's not powerful enough until he does. Fast once rolling, but the most extreme efforts in a GC are rarely more than 30mins. He'd have to train and ride actual hour distances during training to be good enough. It would be a minimum 6 month project to change his body and perfect the distance and effort.

Although all the hour record holders showed not inconsiderable talent at their 'natural' weight. Fat Froome v1.0 didn't have anything. It seems the engine wasn't there all along. Then Froome v2.0 climbs better than them all.

What is Froome's ideal weight? What discipline is he suited for? Froome v3.0 just builds some upper body strength and takes on the hour?

In an era of oddly unprecedented accomplishments, that would be the unprecedentiest.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Sky

The Murdoch empire has many enemies, yet none can pay enough to bring them down, weird stuff, all these people want big pays offs for their stories

Where were these enemies during the phonehacking years? Why weren't they paying to bring Murdoch down then? Mad.

I'm enjoying the fact that the two options in this debate seem to be 1) accept lunatic conspiracy theories about how many enemies Murdoch has and how they want to take him down or 2) how Murdoch controls all of the UCI. My attitude is that it's a considerably more mundane case of regulatory capture. No conspiracy theories required.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

The Murdoch empire has many enemies, yet none can pay enough to bring them down, weird stuff, all these people want big pays offs for their stories

Where were these enemies during the phonehacking years? Why weren't they paying to bring Murdoch down then? Mad.

I'm enjoying the fact that the two options in this debate seem to be 1) accept lunatic conspiracy theories about how many enemies Murdoch has and how they want to take him down or 2) how Murdoch controls all of the UCI. My attitude is that it's a considerably more mundane case of regulatory capture. No conspiracy theories required.

Sporting Federations bought? No way, but then look at IAAF, FIFA, UEFA, and we know that Verbruggen said he could make anyone test positive. No conspiracy needed and those who wail 'conspiracy theories' are not up to date on current sporting federation corruption or are obfuscating.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Meanwhile, JTL, a newly signed Sky rider, gets busted and banned. Thus transferring some of his stink onto Sky, and demonstrating that Sky aren't protected.

Clearly, JTL getting banned was highly beneficial to Sky

yes, and it would make one wonder if the whole reason Sky signed him was to scapegoat him to make it look like they were playing by the rules.

Just think about it. This rider. Putting in performance he clearly shouldn't be. British. Kind of a dream come true for Sky. They sign him. He's clearly not doping with Sky, based on his performances. They get their mouthpiece, Walsh, to blow the story.

This is from JTL himself

I guess the team wanted to find a way to navigate around the situation but they wanted me to be transparent, so they told me to keep it vague. I was told what to write on Twitter. I don’t think there was a leak from the UCI, I was just a number but that number conveniently went to David Walsh. I’m not sure how that came about and there are various theories.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/an-exclusive-interview-with-jonathan-tiernan-locke/

Its all a bit too convenient and perfect to be anything but a set-up.

And sorry if I'm rehashing whats been said on here before, but to suggest that JTL getting busted somehow suggests Sky aren't protected, is nonsense.

Agreed, JTL was first up on the passport infraction with McQuaid, perhaps a parting gesture to Cookson. Then Sky/Cookson found a way to navigate around it via Walsh. Fairly despicable stuff.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Sky

The Murdoch empire has many enemies, yet none can pay enough to bring them down, weird stuff, all these people want big pays offs for their stories

Where were these enemies during the phonehacking years? Why weren't they paying to bring Murdoch down then? Mad.

I'm enjoying the fact that the two options in this debate seem to be 1) accept lunatic conspiracy theories about how many enemies Murdoch has and how they want to take him down or 2) how Murdoch controls all of the UCI. My attitude is that it's a considerably more mundane case of regulatory capture. No conspiracy theories required.

If you didn't want to answer the question you could have just ignored it. My question was not about conspiracy theories.

 

[doperhopper]

oh boy, SKY "redefining" the approach...


http://www.podiumcafe.com/2016/7/28/12315044/turning-the-page-on-the-tour-have-sky-bought-cycling


...to that one seen last time by US Postal

 

[kwikki]

Just found this and thought I'd post it as I know it'll give some of you lot a boner...

"Marginal gains is a philosophy that Jeppesen is keen for Froome and co to understand fully. ‘We have all kinds of programmes and are trying hard to educate the riders,’ he told us, before revealing that the application of these principles doesn’t only apply when the riders are on the bike.

The team has what Jeppesen calls the ‘Hotel set-up’ which sees Team Sky staff members scrub the rider’s hotel rooms from top to bottom before the likes of Geraint Thomas even step foot inside. ‘When you stay in hotel rooms some of them are pretty grim, so we clean them up so they’re in a good state for the riders.’ Nothing is left to chance"

Enjoy :geek:

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/team-sky/1524/inside-team-sky

 

[Saint Unix]

And yet Mikel Landa with his infectious gastroenteritis was allowed to start a stage at the Giro alongside the rest of his team mates.

Also, considering they can just fast-track a TUE whenever their riders get infections, why bother with all the cleanliness?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re:

And yet Mikel Landa with his infectious gastroenteritis was allowed to start a stage at the Giro alongside the rest of his team mates.

Also, considering they can just fast-track a TUE whenever their riders get infections, why bother with all the cleanliness?

You wouldn't want there to be any bugs in there so it's good idea to give the rooms a good sweep first. Straight out of the US Postal playbook