Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re:

What Sky are saying is yeah we doped but so what, its within the rules...nice one

They are saying that but they are lying, and none of the media is willing to call them on it. Getting a doctor to give an unnecessary TUE then having Cookson's corrupt UCI sign off on it is not within the rules. It is straight up doping

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

it's like.....you're off sick from work with docs note....employer can do nothing

anyone expecting skyfall/wiggo disgrace are likely to be disappointed.....team sky
have things covered

Mark L

But if you spend 5 years boasting that you never get sick, mocking any of your cowowkers whenever they do, and then it turns out you were always on sickleave all those times you claimed to be working from home, and claiming disability benefit on the side, well your coworkers might not get along with you very well after that.

 

[Benotti69]

WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public

I bet Brailsford rang Reedie to get that sorted before mentioning it in his interview.

But that doesn't stop Sky making it a team policy under their famous 'transparency' or they could just join the MPCC :lol:

 

[Benotti69]

a nice graphic for Sky fans to peruse.

https://twitter.com/140CharTerror/status/781092759650336768

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public

I bet Brailsford rang Reedie to get that sorted before mentioning it in his interview.

But that doesn't stop Sky making it a team policy under their famous 'transparency' or they could just join the MPCC :lol:

Of course WADA object, people have a right to privacy when it comes to their medical history. It also implies that their system doesn't work (which is doesn't, but they're hardly likely to admit that).

Sky can ask riders to do it voluntarily though so I'm struggling to see why you have to turn this into a conspiracy? If Sky go ahead with this and no-one else follows suit will you praise them for doing what you and several others have called for?

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public

I bet Brailsford rang Reedie to get that sorted before mentioning it in his interview.

But that doesn't stop Sky making it a team policy under their famous 'transparency' or they could just join the MPCC :lol:

Of course WADA object, people have a right to privacy when it comes to their medical history. It also implies that their system doesn't work (which is doesn't, but they're hardly likely to admit that).

Sky can ask riders to do it voluntarily though so I'm struggling to see why you have to turn this into a conspiracy? If Sky go ahead with this and no-one else follows suit will you praise them for doing what you and several others have called for?

Not a conspiracy, but looked a helluvalot like a coordinated PR stunt.
That Wada reaction came awfully quick.

And sky cleverly made it look like it was their idea. Which of course it wasn't.

No doubt part.of operation 'damage control'.
Rest assured, although we don't hear.muchj from sky, they are working overhours to contain amd controll the story.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public

I bet Brailsford rang Reedie to get that sorted before mentioning it in his interview.

But that doesn't stop Sky making it a team policy under their famous 'transparency' or they could just join the MPCC :lol:

Of course WADA object, people have a right to privacy when it comes to their medical history. It also implies that their system doesn't work (which is doesn't, but they're hardly likely to admit that).

Sky can ask riders to do it voluntarily though so I'm struggling to see why you have to turn this into a conspiracy? If Sky go ahead with this and no-one else follows suit will you praise them for doing what you and several others have called for?

No I wont defend them because i dont believe Sky are clean. TUEs are tip of the iceberg. Sky have won 4 of last 5 TdFs and i dont think you can win a GT clean!

Sky lie very well and dope very well, but that aint hard with Cookson, Sapstead, Reedie et al backing Sky riders.

Remember UKAD, UCI and WADA are not investigating whether Wiggins needed Kenacort or not! Tells you all you need to know.

11 days for the master of details to spin a story and play dumb. I dont think so. Just more lies.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public

I bet Brailsford rang Reedie to get that sorted before mentioning it in his interview.

But that doesn't stop Sky making it a team policy under their famous 'transparency' or they could just join the MPCC :lol:

Of course WADA object, people have a right to privacy when it comes to their medical history. It also implies that their system doesn't work (which is doesn't, but they're hardly likely to admit that).

Sky can ask riders to do it voluntarily though so I'm struggling to see why you have to turn this into a conspiracy? If Sky go ahead with this and no-one else follows suit will you praise them for doing what you and several others have called for?

No I wont defend them because i dont believe Sky are clean. TUEs are tip of the iceberg. Sky have won 4 of last 5 TdFs and i dont think you can win a GT clean!

Sky lie very well and dope very well, but that aint hard with Cookson, Sapstead, Reedie et al backing Sky riders.

Remember UKAD, UCI and WADA are not investigating whether Wiggins needed Kenacort or not! Tells you all you need to know.

11 days for the master of details to spin a story and play dumb. I dont think so. Just more lies.

I didn't say defend I said praise. Sky have said they will do exactly what many in here have, unfairly in my opinion, been calling for teams to do. With rider consent of course. Why would you not praise them for doing it? TUEs are not the tip of anything.

UKAD, UCI and WADA have no reason to investigate. A TUE was applied for and signed off on according to the rules set out. You may not like it, you may think the system is open to abuse (which it is), but there is very little that could come of an investigation.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public

I bet Brailsford rang Reedie to get that sorted before mentioning it in his interview.

But that doesn't stop Sky making it a team policy under their famous 'transparency' or they could just join the MPCC :lol:

Of course WADA object, people have a right to privacy when it comes to their medical history. It also implies that their system doesn't work (which is doesn't, but they're hardly likely to admit that).

Sky can ask riders to do it voluntarily though so I'm struggling to see why you have to turn this into a conspiracy? If Sky go ahead with this and no-one else follows suit will you praise them for doing what you and several others have called for?

Not a conspiracy, but looked a helluvalot like a coordinated PR stunt.
That Wada reaction came awfully quick.

And sky cleverly made it look like it was their idea. Which of course it wasn't.

No doubt part.of operation 'damage control'.
Rest assured, although we don't hear.muchj from sky, they are working overhours to contain amd controll the story.

Big team announce controversial plan that goes against basic human rights (even with rider "consent"). International body who are meant to police this area announce that they do not support this. It's basically exactly what you would expect to happen and ridiculous to call it coordinated unless you have some actual evidence.

Making it look like their idea is something I care very little about, it's hardly earth shattering news that people want to take credit for something. What is interesting is that several in the clinic called for all TUEs to be released. Sky look to be aiming to do this going forward (we shall see what they do about past TUEs) so I think it would be fair to expect those who called for it to give them some praise.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re: Sky

This is getting ridiculous...

How much longer before Vincenzo Nibali "wins" his second Tour de France?

 

[sniper]

i'm not sure if anyone called for the release of TUEs in specific regards to procycling/Sky.
More in regards to what appears to be TUE abuse across all prosports.

For Sky, calling for the release of TUEs was cheap PR.
The headline reads: "WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public"
First, It wasn't Team Sky's idea.
Second, to my knowledge they didn't officially file the idea at WADA, did they?
So what do they deserve praise for?

It's similar to Froome asking for more testing on Tenerife.
Or Wiggins saying needles are taboo.
Or Freeman saying they'd pull riders before asking for a TUE.
Cheap PR.

Next, Sky join MPCC. And then what? We have to praise them for that?
As Franklin (I think) said, it's all too little and waaaay too late.
Should we praise them for firing Leinders, too?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public

I bet Brailsford rang Reedie to get that sorted before mentioning it in his interview.

But that doesn't stop Sky making it a team policy under their famous 'transparency' or they could just join the MPCC :lol:

Of course WADA object, people have a right to privacy when it comes to their medical history. It also implies that their system doesn't work (which is doesn't, but they're hardly likely to admit that).

Sky can ask riders to do it voluntarily though so I'm struggling to see why you have to turn this into a conspiracy? If Sky go ahead with this and no-one else follows suit will you praise them for doing what you and several others have called for?

No I wont defend them because i dont believe Sky are clean. TUEs are tip of the iceberg. Sky have won 4 of last 5 TdFs and i dont think you can win a GT clean!

Sky lie very well and dope very well, but that aint hard with Cookson, Sapstead, Reedie et al backing Sky riders.

Remember UKAD, UCI and WADA are not investigating whether Wiggins needed Kenacort or not! Tells you all you need to know.

11 days for the master of details to spin a story and play dumb. I dont think so. Just more lies.

I didn't say defend I said praise. Sky have said they will do exactly what many in here have, unfairly in my opinion, been calling for teams to do. With rider consent of course. Why would you not praise them for doing it? TUEs are not the tip of anything.

UKAD, UCI and WADA have no reason to investigate. A TUE was applied for and signed off on according to the rules set out. You may not like it, you may think the system is open to abuse (which it is), but there is very little that could come of an investigation.

Under the rules, Wiggins has to be severely suffering from pollen and Kenacort is to avoid hospitalisation, but hey that is obviously neither here nor there for you, lying about a medical condition is ok then?

The rules were only followed if he was suffering and he obviously wasn't. NHS calls it toxic, but then they dont want to win GTs now do they? As for Sky/Brailsford/Wiggins lies about knowing whether it is performance enhancing. HAHAHAHAHA :lol:

Callum Skinner might be taking buckets of PEDS, but he at least set the record straight with his asthma. Something Wiggins/Sky cannot do as they are doping, illegally.

CIRC report thinks TUEs are being abused. Also thinks some riders take upto 30 tablets a day on GTs to add to the injections.

A few years ago American teams were arriving to France for TdF with over 150 different medications for July. French teams were using 30. Yanks had to either declare or apply for licence to import medicines, cant remember.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Under the rules, Wiggins has to be severely suffering from pollen and Kenacort is to avoid hospitalisation, but hey that is obviously neither here nor there for you, lying about a medical condition is ok then?

The rules were only followed if he was suffering and he obviously wasn't. NHS calls it toxic, but then they dont want to win GTs now do they? As for Sky/Brailsford/Wiggins lies about knowing whether it is performance enhancing. HAHAHAHAHA :lol:

Callum Skinner might be taking buckets of PEDS, but he at least set the record straight with his asthma. Something Wiggins/Sky cannot do as they are doping, illegally.

CIRC report thinks TUEs are being abused. Also thinks some riders take upto 30 tablets a day on GTs to add to the injections.

A few years ago American teams were arriving to France for TdF with over 150 different medications for July. French teams were using 30. Yanks had to either declare or apply for licence to import medicines, cant remember.

Under the rules? I'm guessing you work for WADA, are a doctor, a pharmacist or all three? Of course, if you were you would know that triamcinolone can be used as a prophylactic, I believe at least one other member has already discussed this, possibly with regard to their father, maybe even in a discussion with you. And of course to make the judgement that it's cheating you must have Wiggins medical notes to hand to know what else was tried and what worked, what didn't, etc.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up Skinner, although I have met Ashley Woodcock on a few occasions, as it has nothing to do with anything I posted.

Many drugs are toxic, that's usually something homeopaths bring up...

Don't know why you brought up CIRC? Or American teams? Again it has little to nothing to do with anything I said.

Sky are going to do what members here, yourself included I believe, were calling for. But it all has to be part of a conspiracy...

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
Sky are going to do what members here, yourself included I believe, were calling for. But it all has to be part of a conspiracy...

nobody (to my knowledge) called for this with particular regards to Sky. More for prosports in general, because clearly the TUE system is being abused.

Sky releasing their tues won't mean much, most seem to agree.
OOC cortisone, no tue needed.
The other thing is Uncle Brian, Uncle Reedie, and Uncle Zorzoli are all buddies with Sky so we can hardly be confident that in this case [transparency = truth].
Too many conflicts of interest in the background.

Still those 13 TUEs will be interesting to see.
So sure, let's see them.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

i'm not sure if anyone called for the release of TUEs in specific regards to procycling/Sky.
More in regards to what appears to be TUE abuse across all prosports.

For Sky, calling for the release of TUEs was cheap PR.
The headline reads: "WADA object to Team Sky's idea of making TUEs public"
First, It wasn't Team Sky's idea.
Second, to my knowledge they didn't officially file the idea at WADA, did they?
So what do they deserve praise for?

It's similar to Froome asking for more testing on Tenerife.
Or Wiggins saying needles are taboo.
Or Freeman saying they'd pull riders before asking for a TUE.
Cheap PR.

Next, Sky join MPCC. And then what? We have to praise them for that?
As Franklin (I think) said, it's all too little and waaaay too late.
Should we praise them for firing Leinders, too?

Ah, your interpretation again. Members posted that they think all TUEs should be made public. That includes cycling, just to highlight that.

Sky haven't called for the release of TUEs from what I have read, I'm guessing they don't write the headlines for cycling news either. Sky have said that going forward, with rider consent, they will make all TUEs public. It's exactly what people were calling for. I don't see anyone else in any sport, other than Skinner?, offering to do that, do you? That's not worthy of any praise? Yet Skinner does pretty much the same and he is given praise.

What is officially filing the idea with WADA? Do they have handily positioned suggestion boxes? And why would it matter if they suggested it to WADA? They have said they will implement a process above and beyond what is required in a system which is open for abuse, but apparently that's not praise-worthy, it's expected. That's ridiculous. Cheap PR? Seems like a commitment to me.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

...
Sky are going to do what members here, yourself included I believe, were calling for. But it all has to be part of a conspiracy...

nobody (to my knowledge) called for this with particular regards to Sky. More for prosports in general, because clearly the TUE system is being abused.

Sky releasing their tues won't mean much, most seem to agree.
OOC cortisone, no tue needed.
The other thing is Uncle Brian, Uncle Reedie, and Uncle Zorzoli are all buddies with Sky so we can hardly be confident that in this case [transparency = truth].
Too many conflicts of interest in the background.

Still those 13 TUEs will be interesting to see.
So sure, let's see them.

Sorry, again, how does pro sports in general not include Sky? I've not claimed anyone said that Sky should release TUEs, I've said they said ALL TUEs should be released. That includes Sky (in fact, technically it includes Sky's riders, they are their TUEs).

 

[sniper]

what were we arguing about again?
I think it was about whether or not Sky deserve *praise* for publishing their TUE records (something they haven't done yet, but for the sake of the argument let's assume they will).
Does Al Capone deserve praise for publlishing his tax records when obviously there isn't going to be any record of the taxes he evaded or of the other crimes he committed in the process?
My answer is no. It's cheap PR and it sheds no light whatsoever on the real crimes being committed.
That doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to require all rich people to publish their tax records, as it might be a deterrent for future tax evasion.

 

[King Boonen]

Al Capone didn't publish his tax records. I'm still waiting to know where the WADA suggestion boxes are. You inserted yourself into a conversation between myself and benotti, so really I haven't asked you anything, I just responded and expanded on my point. The reason I haven't asked you anything is because you weren't one of the members I recall saying that all TUEs should be published.

 

[sniper]

-Sky haven't published their TUEs either.

-It's a discussion forum, with a PM function in case you want to be alone with benotti.

-Fair enough.

 

[King Boonen]

And Al Capone never even offered. They are not Sky's TUEs, they are the riders TUEs.

It is a discussion forum, I'm discussing why I haven't asked you anything. I think we both agree the TUEs we've seen are pretty meaningless in terms of doping, especially considering what they are for and the OOC rules. We've discussed that before.

 

[Huapango]

Re:

Cookson and Reedie probably told Sky to not worry about submitting any of those silly TUEs anymore and to concentrate on dominating cycling at any cost. They'll make sure the "right people" are conducting the drug tests and testing for motors. TUEs are for non-World Tour riders from Guatemala and elsewhere.

 

[Craigee]

The GB track team have Sky on their shorts so I think it is appropriate to ask here. King Boonen is clearly pro Sky and GB. Could they please explain their own take on how the whole GB team performed so incredibly well in Rio? How does an already top successful rider some late 20s improve so much?

Cavendish takes I think 8 seconds off his best IP time and is disappointed not to break Sir Brad's Olympic record even though Sir Brad is probably the best IP rider ever. How does a road sprinter who cannot Time Trial to save his life with so little time to train after the tour, go so close to Sir Brad's time? No marginal gains here. Massive unbelievable incredible stupendous gains.

How does Laura Trot take so much off her PB when she has done so many IPs?

How does Kenny ride a 9.5 at sea level? Kenny's father in law to be told me at the event that Kenny wanted to quit last year. What a turn around.

How can Skinner improve so much from the worlds but also on any of his previous performances?

The British women couldn't qualify for the womens team sprint and I have no doubt on their top 2 qualifying rides, that they would have won the TS had they qualified.

Both TPs men and women break world records. Less surprising but still amazing.

Not just them though.

How does Lasse Hansen take 5 seconds off his PB for the IP? Did you all see how he lapped the field in the points race? Beyond normal in my opinion. It took him many laps.

How does Viviani take seconds off his PB for the IP?

These two have done so many IPs including at many worlds events. So how do they improve so much in one go?

These guys made Gaviria look second rate which they couldn't do six months earlier.

Thanks

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Under the rules, Wiggins has to be severely suffering from pollen and Kenacort is to avoid hospitalisation, but hey that is obviously neither here nor there for you, lying about a medical condition is ok then?

The rules were only followed if he was suffering and he obviously wasn't. NHS calls it toxic, but then they dont want to win GTs now do they? As for Sky/Brailsford/Wiggins lies about knowing whether it is performance enhancing. HAHAHAHAHA :lol:

Callum Skinner might be taking buckets of PEDS, but he at least set the record straight with his asthma. Something Wiggins/Sky cannot do as they are doping, illegally.

CIRC report thinks TUEs are being abused. Also thinks some riders take upto 30 tablets a day on GTs to add to the injections.

A few years ago American teams were arriving to France for TdF with over 150 different medications for July. French teams were using 30. Yanks had to either declare or apply for licence to import medicines, cant remember.

Under the rules? I'm guessing you work for WADA, are a doctor, a pharmacist or all three? Of course, if you were you would know that triamcinolone can be used as a prophylactic, I believe at least one other member has already discussed this, possibly with regard to their father, maybe even in a discussion with you. And of course to make the judgement that it's cheating you must have Wiggins medical notes to hand to know what else was tried and what worked, what didn't, etc.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up Skinner, although I have met Ashley Woodcock on a few occasions, as it has nothing to do with anything I posted.

Many drugs are toxic, that's usually something homeopaths bring up...

Don't know why you brought up CIRC? Or American teams? Again it has little to nothing to do with anything I said.

Sky are going to do what members here, yourself included I believe, were calling for. But it all has to be part of a conspiracy...

Just because i don't work for any cycling organisation does not mean i can read and understand the rules as published.

If Kenacort was used as a prophylactic then there would be evidence it was needed as previous years Wiggins suffered hospitalisation or near hospitalisation as this drug is only used in the severest of cases. Lets hold our breaths for Wiggins/Sky to produce documentary evidence of previous attacks that left Wiggins in such a condition that Kenacort was the solution lest we be hospitalised.

I dont have Wiggins medical history but am not willing to believe people who have been caught lying previously. I am no fool. I dont do homeopathy and that suggestion is an attack on homeopathy and it marginal gains!

Skinner is relevant as he released his medical history. Relevant as he actually has a history, unlike Wiggins, because if Wiggins had one he too would release it to shut up the bone idle wankers and *** like me.

CIRC was set upt investigate doping. TUE abuse was mentioned. The American teams again is demonstrate that the doping culture is still massive.

Sky lie about most things. Not going to list them here yet again for umpteenth time.

It has been nearly 2 weeks since TUE was released. Sky have done little but talk to patriotic BBC and tell lies.

Dont hold your breath, the track forum needs you.

 

[bikenrrd]

Re:

How does a road sprinter who cannot Time Trial to save his life with so little time to train after the tour, go so close to Sir Brad's time? No marginal gains here. Massive unbelievable incredible stupendous gains.

This is simply not true. Cav is a decent time triallist when he wants to be - he just usually soft pedals the ones in grand tours so as to have a bit of a rest.
He also used to ride team pursuit on the track and won quite a few events. He was a track cyclist before he was a road sprinter - you might want to look up his palmares.

As to all the other questions: a fast track, favourable conditions (air pressure / humidity) and out of competition doping, of course.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Just because i don't work for any cycling organisation does not mean i can read and understand the rules as published.

WADA are not a cycling organisation, neither is being a doctor. If you can't read and understand a post then why would I believe you can read and understand the TUE rules?

If Kenacort was used as a prophylactic then there would be evidence it was needed as previous years Wiggins suffered hospitalisation or near hospitalisation as this drug is only used in the severest of cases. Lets hold our breaths for Wiggins/Sky to produce documentary evidence of previous attacks that left Wiggins in such a condition that Kenacort was the solution lest we be hospitalised.

Well again this simply isn't true so I guess doctor is out of the window. A doctor is allowed to choose a treatment regime based on what they think will be best for the patient. Wiggins may not respond to other medications, he may suffer more severe side-effects, they may have decided a single injection to cover a racing period where he was travelling thousands of kilometres in varied conditions was better than daily medication. They may have decided a proactive approach of using a prophylactic was better decision than reactive treatment of symptoms. They may even have done it to dope him, but frankly, with the allowance of OOC corticosteroid use that would seem pretty pointless.

I dont have Wiggins medical history

No, that much is abundantly clear.

Skinner is relevant as he released his medical history. Relevant as he actually has a history, unlike Wiggins, because if Wiggins had one he too would release it to shut up the bone idle wankers and **** like me.

I don't think Wiggins cares what you or any of us on here say. It's clear from the reaction to Sky's pledge to release TUEs that even if he did it would all be part of the conspiracy. Frankly I hope he doesn't, it's a horrible precedent to set.

CIRC was set upt investigate doping. TUE abuse was mentioned. The American teams again is demonstrate that the doping culture is still massive.

I never argued against that, this again is irrelevant.

Sky lie about most things. Not going to list them here yet again for umpteenth time.

This is again irrelevant to the question posed.

It has been nearly 2 weeks since TUE was released. Sky have done little but talk to patriotic BBC and tell lies.

Dont hold your breath, the track forum needs you.

I don't think I post much in the track forum, I quite like watching it every now and then but it doesn't really interest me except for the big events.


And again, most of this is irrelevant to the point. Sky are doing (or at least planning to do) what you asked them to do. Why is that not praise-worthy? I don't think it is, but then I don't think that anyone should be releasing TUEs.