Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Bronstein]

Re: Re:

Throw them out of the WorldTour


Yeah right, it may stink but the TUE was done legally....if you want Sky thrown out then you need to chuck out all the other teams who have had any doping violations.....that'd leave a pretty thin World Tour selection!

Was it? I seriously doubt it was. Sporting fraud at its worst, well maybe not quite, but up there since this is a cycling forum.

How? This went through two doctors, the UCI and WADA had a final veto. If there was any impropriety then surely WADA would of said no.

Which they can only exercise if they decide to review a TUE decision of an international federation. As far as I know, there is no evidence that WADA reviewed any of the TUE decisions with respect to Wiggins.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Throw them out of the WorldTour


Yeah right, it may stink but the TUE was done legally....if you want Sky thrown out then you need to chuck out all the other teams who have had any doping violations.....that'd leave a pretty thin World Tour selection!

Was it? I seriously doubt it was. Sporting fraud at its worst, well maybe not quite, but up there since this is a cycling forum.

How? This went through two doctors, the UCI and WADA had a final veto. If there was any impropriety then surely WADA would of said no.

UCI improriety? They haven't risen to that level yet? Give Cookson a chance FFS!!!

WADA impropriety again IOC would never let them rise to even dirty levels from the cesspit sport is?

If the UCI gave a fig, it would have made 3 man UCI committee check Wiggins TUEs were required. Not just hand it over to Zorzoli.

Impropriety HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ps MatP must be paid to post this stuff. :lol:

 

[70kmph]

There is a rule about making false medical claims with 4 year ban
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/calls-made-for-
wada-to-examine-wiggins-tue-corticosteroid-controversy/

 

[sniper]

Great piece by stokes.
*** me, Wiggins dug some hole for himself indeed. He got too greedy and clearly a sense of impunity grew on him. (Which is understandable if you know the whole circus is corrupt and youreyou're protected)
Wiggins needs to be banned and stripped of his 2012 titles, but clearly hell will freeze over first.

 

[ontheroad]

If Sky thought this would all blow over quickly (which they initially hoped for hence Brailsford's houdini act) they were badly mistaken. Over 2 weeks later and the clamour for action is as great as ever. To all but the innocently naive and sky fanboys this whole episode stinks. Wiggins won a tour by claiming a convenient sickness under false pretences in order to inject himself with a powerful PED which helped propel him to tour victory. The only logical outcome is to strip him of his title.

 

[Craigee]

Re: Re:

The GB track team have Sky on their shorts so I think it is appropriate to ask here. King Boonen is clearly pro Sky and GB. Could they please explain their own take on how the whole GB team performed so incredibly well in Rio? How does an already top successful rider some late 20s improve so much?

Cavendish takes I think 8 seconds off his best IP time and is disappointed not to break Sir Brad's Olympic record even though Sir Brad is probably the best IP rider ever. How does a road sprinter who cannot Time Trial to save his life with so little time to train after the tour, go so close to Sir Brad's time? No marginal gains here. Massive unbelievable incredible stupendous gains.

How does Laura Trot take so much off her PB when she has done so many IPs?

How does Kenny ride a 9.5 at sea level? Kenny's father in law to be told me at the event that Kenny wanted to quit last year. What a turn around.

How can Skinner improve so much from the worlds but also on any of his previous performances?

The British women couldn't qualify for the womens team sprint and I have no doubt on their top 2 qualifying rides, that they would have won the TS had they qualified.

Both TPs men and women break world records. Less surprising but still amazing.

Not just them though.

How does Lasse Hansen take 5 seconds off his PB for the IP? Did you all see how he lapped the field in the points race? Beyond normal in my opinion. It took him many laps.

How does Viviani take seconds off his PB for the IP?

These two have done so many IPs including at many worlds events. So how do they improve so much in one go?

These guys made Gaviria look second rate which they couldn't do six months earlier.

Thanks

I think anyone who knows Adrian well enough to have that conversation would also know that his daughter would have nothing to do with PEDs or anything else likely to impact negatively on her health

Didn't say I knew Mr Trott. I was just sitting behind him and he was very excited when the GB men won the Team Sprint and he made the statement to me that Jason was going to quit cycling and had no self confidence last year and that it was great to see him go so great in Rio. Fair comment by him. Good on Mr Trott.

I still question the incredible improvements by the whole team from GB. They weren't marginal. They were stupendous. And not all drugs impact negatively.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Choosing to show your medical history for asthma or pollen is hardly a violation.

Especially since 85% of winners of the TdF since Tom Simpsons death have been 'proven' dopers.

Callum Skinner i doubt feels violated.

A team that said they would rather one their riders didn't race if he was sick then apply for a TUE were caught doing the exact opposite of what they said they would do. Now time for Wiggins to step up to the plate and prove like Skinner he is a lifelong asthma sufferer.

That is not violating his rights.

Wiggins has no problem insulting people or smoking as an known asthma sufferer, why would he be ashamed by proving to world with documents he had asthma as a kid?

Again with the misunderstanding. You are not violating your own humans rights by voluntarily giving one up, that's clearly not what I'm talking about. I have a problem with him doing it, but I can understand why he did. It's the people calling for them all to be released, whether they have permission or not, that I am accusing of wanting to violate someones human rights.

 

[sniper]

if there is so much evidence for criminal activity within a certain sector of society, we'd normally be calling for police to interfere.
I'm confident most proathletes still prefer the 'soft' option of publishing tues

 

[Craigee]

Re: Re:

The GB track team have Sky on their shorts so I think it is appropriate to ask here. King Boonen is clearly pro Sky and GB. Could they please explain their own take on how the whole GB team performed so incredibly well in Rio? How does an already top successful rider some late 20s improve so much?

Cavendish takes I think 8 seconds off his best IP time and is disappointed not to break Sir Brad's Olympic record even though Sir Brad is probably the best IP rider ever. How does a road sprinter who cannot Time Trial to save his life with so little time to train after the tour, go so close to Sir Brad's time? No marginal gains here. Massive unbelievable incredible stupendous gains.

How does Laura Trot take so much off her PB when she has done so many IPs?

How does Kenny ride a 9.5 at sea level? Kenny's father in law to be told me at the event that Kenny wanted to quit last year. What a turn around.

How can Skinner improve so much from the worlds but also on any of his previous performances?

The British women couldn't qualify for the womens team sprint and I have no doubt on their top 2 qualifying rides, that they would have won the TS had they qualified.

Both TPs men and women break world records. Less surprising but still amazing.

Not just them though.

How does Lasse Hansen take 5 seconds off his PB for the IP? Did you all see how he lapped the field in the points race? Beyond normal in my opinion. It took him many laps.

How does Viviani take seconds off his PB for the IP?

These two have done so many IPs including at many worlds events. So how do they improve so much in one go?

These guys made Gaviria look second rate which they couldn't do six months earlier.

Thanks

Hi Craigee, I'm not pro Sky, pro GB or pro anyone. I'm anti rubbish and in this very specific case, anti violating people's human rights.

Thanks for your reply King Boonen

I don't think any athlete's medical records regarding their chosen sport should be private. That line only helps with the covering up of stuff like Wiggins has just got caught out on. I go with those saying it's extremely convenient having Cookson at the top. Many of the World leading Sports Bodies are riddled with corruption.

I don't blame the Russians. It's called Pay Back.

I'll just add here, that all TUE's should be made public because the gambling public bet on the major sporting events. I like a bet myself. Agencies like Ladbrokes. In America a racehorse trainer caught doping a horse can have added charges related to ripping off the gambling public.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Thanks for your reply King Boonen

I don't think any athlete's medical records regarding their chosen sport should be private. That line only helps with the covering up of stuff like Wiggins has just got caught out on. I go with those saying it's extremely convenient having Cookson at the top. Many of the World leading Sports Bodies are riddled with corruption.

I don't blame the Russians. It's called Pay Back.

I'll just add here, that all TUE's should be made public because the gambling public bet on the major sporting events. I like a bet myself. Agencies like Ladbrokes. In America a racehorse trainer caught doping a horse can have added charges related to ripping off the gambling public.

Why single out athletes? They are just doing a job. Would you like your medical records to be public knowledge? Who decides if it relates to their sport? Simone Biles took medication for her ADHD but she now has to defend herself and deal with the fact something that was obviously very private is known around the world. What if people are on anti-depressants, being treated for illnesses they would rather people didn't know about? I absolutely think that the TUE system could be improved, but the idea of releasing people's private medical records to the public is, frankly, horrifying to me.

It would be extremely convenient having Cookson at the top, apart from the fact that all of Wiggin's TUEs are from before Cookson was at the top.

Gambling is your choice, no one forces you to do it and there is a reason it's called gambling.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

if there is so much evidence for criminal activity within a certain sector of society, we'd normally be calling for police to interfere.
I'm confident most proathletes still prefer the 'soft' option of publishing tues

What crimes have been committed?

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

The GB track team have Sky on their shorts so I think it is appropriate to ask here. King Boonen is clearly pro Sky and GB. Could they please explain their own take on how the whole GB team performed so incredibly well in Rio? How does an already top successful rider some late 20s improve so much?

Cavendish takes I think 8 seconds off his best IP time and is disappointed not to break Sir Brad's Olympic record even though Sir Brad is probably the best IP rider ever. How does a road sprinter who cannot Time Trial to save his life with so little time to train after the tour, go so close to Sir Brad's time? No marginal gains here. Massive unbelievable incredible stupendous gains.

How does Laura Trot take so much off her PB when she has done so many IPs?

How does Kenny ride a 9.5 at sea level? Kenny's father in law to be told me at the event that Kenny wanted to quit last year. What a turn around.

How can Skinner improve so much from the worlds but also on any of his previous performances?

The British women couldn't qualify for the womens team sprint and I have no doubt on their top 2 qualifying rides, that they would have won the TS had they qualified.

Both TPs men and women break world records. Less surprising but still amazing.

Not just them though.

How does Lasse Hansen take 5 seconds off his PB for the IP? Did you all see how he lapped the field in the points race? Beyond normal in my opinion. It took him many laps.

How does Viviani take seconds off his PB for the IP?

These two have done so many IPs including at many worlds events. So how do they improve so much in one go?

These guys made Gaviria look second rate which they couldn't do six months earlier.

Thanks

Hi Craigee, I'm not pro Sky, pro GB or pro anyone. I'm anti rubbish and in this very specific case, anti violating people's human rights.

Thanks for your reply King Boonen

I don't think any athlete's medical records regarding their chosen sport should be private. That line only helps with the covering up of stuff like Wiggins has just got caught out on. I go with those saying it's extremely convenient having Cookson at the top. Many of the World leading Sports Bodies are riddled with corruption.

I don't blame the Russians. It's called Pay Back.

I'll just add here, that all TUE's should be made public because the gambling public bet on the major sporting events. I like a bet myself. Agencies like Ladbrokes. In America a racehorse trainer caught doping a horse can have added charges related to ripping off the gambling public.

What is wrong with you? People have a right to privacy, especially when medical matters are involved. We had no right to know about this and that is a fact.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

if there is so much evidence for criminal activity within a certain sector of society, we'd normally be calling for police to interfere.
I'm confident most proathletes still prefer the 'soft' option of publishing tues

What crimes have been committed?

in prosport? What year shall we take?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

if there is so much evidence for criminal activity within a certain sector of society, we'd normally be calling for police to interfere.
I'm confident most proathletes still prefer the 'soft' option of publishing tues

What crimes have been committed?

in prosport? What year shall we take?

It's pretty obvious we are talking about the publishing of TUEs. So what crimes have been committed that would be solved by the publishing of TUEs?

 

[sniper]

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

 

[ontheroad]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Wiggins is claiming a pollen allergy, it's not like he was exposed with a mental illness or a transgender imbalance of some description. The depths to which some people (though very few admittedly) will go to defend him are ludicrous. He saw it as an opportune moment to pump himslef with rocket juice in order to clinch the tour. Anything else is just bluster to try and justify his cheating.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Are you implying every single athlete is a criminal? Should be suspected of a crime? (and you still haven't said what crime all these proathletes are committing? Even if police found TUEs in a search that doesn't make them public record. This is just descending into ridiculousness.

 

[Craigee]

Okay Okay

And what medical privacy and human rights does the 800m runner Semenya have? Wait a minute maybe if she was British?

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Okay Okay

And what medical privacy and human rights does the 800m runner Semenya have? Wait a minute maybe if she was British?

She has the same rights as everyone else and I find the public questioning over her gender as disgusting as I find the leaking of anyone elses private medical details. Simone Biles isn't British either.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

With the prior approval of a judge or magistrate.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

With the prior approval of a judge or magistrate.

No, probable cause or reasonable suspicion in the UK allows police to search without the need for a warrant. <edited by mods>

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Are you implying every single athlete is a criminal? Should be suspected of a crime? (and you still haven't said what crime all these proathletes are committing? Even if police found TUEs in a search that doesn't make them public record. This is just descending into ridiculousness.

participation in a professional sport is not a human right...if its integrity is to be protected (and let's assume it is based on the existence of the various governing bodies and WADA) then athletes who benefit from the rewards it brings, both financial and otherwise, should not get too upset if they need to lose some rights to do so....

in cycling especially when the CIRC report highlighted TUEs and rapid (and extreme) weight loss...both associated with, at least Mr Wiggins, if not Froome as well....

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

With the prior approval of a judge or magistrate.

No, probable cause or reasonable suspicion in the UK allows police to search without the need for a warrant. You really are amateur hour when it comes to this stuff.

That's only when making an arrest or to search for evidence of a crime for which you are currently arrested.

You are possibly thinking about stop and search which does not require a warrant but is only for drugs, a weapon, stolen property or to find evidence for intent to commit (like a crowbar).

Stopping withour reasonable grounds requires sign off by a senior officer and is to search for weapons being carried, used in a crime or evidence of such or if you are in an area where searches have been designated.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Are you implying every single athlete is a criminal? Should be suspected of a crime? (and you still haven't said what crime all these proathletes are committing? Even if police found TUEs in a search that doesn't make them public record. This is just descending into ridiculousness.

participation in a professional sport is not a human right...if its integrity is to be protected (and let's assume it is based on the existence of the various governing bodies and WADA) then athletes who benefit from the rewards it brings, both financial and otherwise, should not get too upset if they need to lose some rights to do so....

in cycling especially when the CIRC report highlighted TUEs and rapid (and extreme) weight loss...both associated with, at least Mr Wiggins, if not Froome as well....

No. Being an athlete is no different to any other job, no-one said it was a human right. If you think they should lose certain human rights to do it then you should have no problem with anyone losing certain human rights to do any job. Is that the case?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Police have the right to search houses of crime suspects.
Proathletes should be happy nobody is calling for that. It would be warranted seeing the extent of corruption and cheating in topsport.

Really u shouldnt start about the alleged injustice of publishing some TUEs when the fate of clean athletes is at stake.

With the prior approval of a judge or magistrate.

No, probable cause or reasonable suspicion in the UK allows police to search without the need for a warrant. You really are amateur hour when it comes to this stuff.

That's only when making an arrest or to search for evidence of a crime for which you are currently arrested.

You are possibly thinking about stop and search which does not require a warrant but is only for drugs, a weapon, stolen property or to find evidence for intent to commit (like a crowbar).

Stopping withour reasonable grounds requires sign off by a senior officer and is to search for weapons being carried, used in a crime or evidence of such or if you are in an area where searches have been designated.

No.

Reasonable suspicion allows the police to enter private property. i.e. If they saw Wiggins carrying a load of EPO from the back of his car into his house and believed the goods were illegally obtained they could enter the property. Where it may come unstuck is in court whereby the evidence obtained by the police may be considered inadmissible if the defendant proved that the bar for reasonable suspicion was not met and evidence was obtained by an illegal search. For example if they entered the property on the basis of the EPO and found out it was only a box of British Cycling jerseys but also found 5 grams of skunk, they would be unable (within reason) to prosecute on the marijuana. The cause was the EPO not marijuana.

Stop And Frisk was overturned in the US by Federal ruling. Please don't make up things or guess. The law is clear on these matters.