Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
More obfuscation from Spud!

You make it look like Sky never lied, yet all they have done is lie!

No conspiracy here when the team has been caught lying umpteen times. Their lack of transparency from day 1 has been the opposite of everything Brailsford promised.

So funny, i really thought after Armstrong the comedy element from fans would never get to those levels. Sky fans have bettered it.

The team of minute detail cant even get race dates right and riders in places they say they were right, yet they were going to be the team of minute detail. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

PUHLEASE, one does need a tin foil hat for their dog to see the Sky BS!

Bandaids or pedals :lol: :lol:
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
More obfuscation from Spud!

You make it look like Sky never lied, yet all they have done is lie!

No conspiracy here when the team has been caught lying umpteen times. Their lack of transparency from day 1 has been the opposite of everything Brailsford promised.

So funny, i really thought after Armstrong the comedy element from fans would never get to those levels. Sky fans have bettered it.

The team of minute detail cant even get race dates right and riders in places they say they were right, yet they were going to be the team of minute detail. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

PUHLEASE, one does need a tin foil hat for their dog to see the Sky BS!

Bandaids or pedals :lol: :lol:

indeed...it's only a women's race after all...who cares about details...especially when you want to be a DS

job on Trump's team for Cope... :)
 
Jul 5, 2009
2,440
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Re: Re:

TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
Why in the world would you hang out in Liege or Huy for four days? It's not like those are great places to relax and have a small vacay - especially in early spring. Most people go home after a race...

John Swanson
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
2
0
Re: Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
Why in the world would you hang out in Liege or Huy for four days? It's not like those are great places to relax and have a small vacay - especially in early spring. Most people go home after a race...

John Swanson

Please dont bring logic into it. The suspension of logic is what makes Sky clean!

Yeah like riders hang out in Roubaix for kicks for a week after Paris Roubiax.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
ScienceIsCool said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
Why in the world would you hang out in Liege or Huy for four days? It's not like those are great places to relax and have a small vacay - especially in early spring. Most people go home after a race...

John Swanson

Please dont bring logic into it. The suspension of logic is what makes Sky clean!

Yeah like riders hang out in Roubaix for kicks for a week after Paris Roubiax.
Offt... :redface:
 
Re: Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
Why in the world would you hang out in Liege or Huy for four days? It's not like those are great places to relax and have a small vacay - especially in early spring. Most people go home after a race...

John Swanson
A week afterwards is the Festival Féminin Elsy Jacobs in Luxembourg, the next UCI-level racing Nicole did after Flèche, then she took a month off. I don't find it that hard to believe that she would have stuck around that part of the world for training actually.

It is amusing in the light of some of Cooke's comments about how far down the priorities list the women were at British Cycling, however, that somebody who ostensibly works on the women's national team can be called out at short notice to unquestioningly travel halfway across Europe to deliver a parcel containing something he isn't aware of to a trade team he isn't employed by, but doesn't know what country the star riders who are actually under his remit are in at a given time at the height of race season, or what races exist and don't. As Flèche is the most important women's hilly classic and Liège is the most important men's one, I can understand his conflating them, however.

Now, why somebody from the women's team would NOT be present at the top hilly Classic for women but would be doing runs for Sky by his own admission at a race where there isn't a women's edition at all, that's a separate question - however compared to supposedly visiting Pooley on June 12th or buses that go before riders do interviews next to them, this one's a story that is fairly easy to believe.
 
Sep 10, 2016
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Didn't Cope used to ride for Linda McCartney and aren't they under investigation by UKAD? Oh silly me, even though they had a whistleblower they kicked it into the long grass...

Rotten to the core
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
More obfuscation from Spud!

You make it look like Sky never lied, yet all they have done is lie!

No conspiracy here when the team has been caught lying umpteen times. Their lack of transparency from day 1 has been the opposite of everything Brailsford promised.

So funny, i really thought after Armstrong the comedy element from fans would never get to those levels. Sky fans have bettered it.

The team of minute detail cant even get race dates right and riders in places they say they were right, yet they were going to be the team of minute detail. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

PUHLEASE, one does need a tin foil hat for their dog to see the Sky BS!

Bandaids or pedals :lol: :lol:
Obfuscation - make obscure, unclear, or unintelligible

Not sure I did that, I just pointed out that what was said earlier by other poster could be disproved by real events (ie that there WAS a womens race close by, etc). You can spout all you like with your theories (and that is your prerogative) but when other people present a counter argument you should listen. Clearly there was a womens race nearby and within a few days ...
 
Re: Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
Why in the world would you hang out in Liege or Huy for four days? It's not like those are great places to relax and have a small vacay - especially in early spring. Most people go home after a race...

John Swanson
Who knows? But if you were working for BC and looking at British riders wouldn't you possibly hand around to see them?? And if you were a BC rider you might hang around too if your next race was nearby and there were staff coming out to see you. Its not an unbelievable situation.
 
Re: Sky

I've just been reading back through Matt Lawton's articles and his latest one today. The allegation is essentially that Wiggins was injected with Triamcinolone or a similar product delivered by Cope, that required a TUE when taken in competition but not out of competition, in the back of the Sky bus by Dr Freeman after the conclusion of the Dauphine on 12 June 2011. The implication is that if they had waited until 00.01 on the night of the 12th, instead of taking it in the bus after the race, then there wouldn't be any anti-doping violation because triamcinolone isn't banned out of competition.

What gets me is that for all intents and purposes the substance was taken out of competition, given the race had already ended, irrespective if it was taken before or after midnight on the 12th. That leads me to conclude that the person who has made this allegation must have a bit of an axe to grind to have made it in the first place. To try and inflict so much damage on the team over such a minor infringement, which I imagine is made all the time by riders and teams, you'd need to be pretty bitter about something. Perhaps one of the sacked employees who were sent packing in the name of zero tolerance? De Jongh? He wasn't at the Dauphine that year but he might well have heard about the incident from Sean Yates, who was Sky's lead DS on the race. Fascinating to know which Team Sky employee made the allegation.
 
Re:

MmeDesgrange said:
Didn't Cope used to ride for Linda McCartney and aren't they under investigation by UKAD? Oh silly me, even though they had a whistleblower they kicked it into the long grass...

Rotten to the core
More likely they didn't have the necessary legal powers to enable them to investigate it. The same can happen in this case. All it needs is for Dr Freeman to keep his mouth shut and nothing can be proven either way.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
ScienceIsCool said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
Why in the world would you hang out in Liege or Huy for four days? It's not like those are great places to relax and have a small vacay - especially in early spring. Most people go home after a race...

John Swanson
A week afterwards is the Festival Féminin Elsy Jacobs in Luxembourg, the next UCI-level racing Nicole did after Flèche, then she took a month off. I don't find it that hard to believe that she would have stuck around that part of the world for training actually.

It is amusing in the light of some of Cooke's comments about how far down the priorities list the women were at British Cycling, however, that somebody who ostensibly works on the women's national team can be called out at short notice to unquestioningly travel halfway across Europe to deliver a parcel containing something he isn't aware of to a trade team he isn't employed by, but doesn't know what country the star riders who are actually under his remit are in at a given time at the height of race season, or what races exist and don't. As Flèche is the most important women's hilly classic and Liège is the most important men's one, I can understand his conflating them, however.

Now, why somebody from the women's team would NOT be present at the top hilly Classic for women but would be doing runs for Sky by his own admission at a race where there isn't a women's edition at all, that's a separate question - however compared to supposedly visiting Pooley on June 12th or buses that go before riders do interviews next to them, this one's a story that is fairly easy to believe.
This touches on what upsets me as much as doping about Sky and British Cycling: the systemic sexism that has led to them failing to support women's cycling over a prolonged period. That Cope says blithely that he had no real role but had the title of women's coach shows Sky still just don't see how inexcusable it is not just to fail to support the women's program but to siphon off funds from it to support the men's program. That he can't get the details right over seeing a recent world champion shows the contempt With which Nicole Cooke was treated by Sky and BC.
With trade teams driven by commercial priorities, one can almost understand claims they have to go where the money is (ie men's cycling). For a publicly funded program to do so is an insult to taxpayers. And for Sky to repeat that mistake when they came into sponsorship with a massive song and dance about how their support was not just elite but for cycling at all levels, shows disappointing myopia.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
2
0
Re: Re:

TheSpud said:
ScienceIsCool said:
TheSpud said:
MatParker117 said:
orbeas said:
There was no ladies Liege race in 2011 !!
Nicole Cooke had ridden the Fleche Femme four days prior, it's perfectly possible that they met up prior to Liege that year as Cope was working for Sky.
Ding dong - another conspiracy theory called in to question. Well done Mat!
Why in the world would you hang out in Liege or Huy for four days? It's not like those are great places to relax and have a small vacay - especially in early spring. Most people go home after a race...

John Swanson
Who knows? But if you were working for BC and looking at British riders wouldn't you possibly hand around to see them?? And if you were a BC rider you might hang around too if your next race was nearby and there were staff coming out to see you. Its not an unbelievable situation.
I dont think Nicole Cooke did any work for BC, considering she rode for trade teams and had to do her own thing when riding as a GB athlete, It is well documented how GB badly treated Pooley and Cooke.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
2
0
Re: Re:

JRanton said:
MmeDesgrange said:
Didn't Cope used to ride for Linda McCartney and aren't they under investigation by UKAD? Oh silly me, even though they had a whistleblower they kicked it into the long grass...

Rotten to the core
More likely they didn't have the necessary legal powers to enable them to investigate it. The same can happen in this case. All it needs is for Dr Freeman to keep his mouth shut and nothing can be proven either way.
Not true. The will be able to access documentation and computers. They can find the necessary information that way.

Also there will a trail for the PEDs via money. Doctors can keep their mouths closed but money leaves a trail.

But UKAD is not interested in anti doping. Their lack of actions concerning Dr Bonar tell us that. UKAD is not much better than Russian anti-doping.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
2
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Re: Sky

JRanton said:
I've just been reading back through Matt Lawton's articles and his latest one today. The allegation is essentially that Wiggins was injected with Triamcinolone or a similar product delivered by Cope, that required a TUE when taken in competition but not out of competition, in the back of the Sky bus by Dr Freeman after the conclusion of the Dauphine on 12 June 2011. The implication is that if they had waited until 00.01 on the night of the 12th, instead of taking it in the bus after the race, then there wouldn't be any anti-doping violation because triamcinolone isn't banned out of competition.

What gets me is that for all intents and purposes the substance was taken out of competition, given the race had already ended, irrespective if it was taken before or after midnight on the 12th. That leads me to conclude that the person who has made this allegation must have a bit of an axe to grind to have made it in the first place. To try and inflict so much damage on the team over such a minor infringement, which I imagine is made all the time by riders and teams, you'd need to be pretty bitter about something. Perhaps one of the sacked employees who were sent packing in the name of zero tolerance? De Jongh? He wasn't at the Dauphine that year but he might well have heard about the incident from Sean Yates, who was Sky's lead DS on the race. Fascinating to know which Team Sky employee made the allegation.
What gets me is that Sky are not being transparent. In fact they are behaving exactly in the manner of a team doping.

And posters are bemoaning a disgruntled employee. At this stage if sky were honest they would tell the world what was in that medical case. But they cant, can they? Because you dont need to travel with legal medicines that can be purchased at a pharmacy, or bandaids or pedals! But lets direct the discussion towards a 'bad' employee rather than the important issue of why did Sky need a medical case transported from Manchester to a race in France?

Way to miss the point or maybe that is the point of your post.
 
May 26, 2010
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Just a reminder that Team Sky had riders in 1st, 2nd and 4th on final GC at Dauphine 2012!

Porte was 9th.

Now that is a team doping program.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Indeed.

Wiggins went straight to Sestriere. Great place to gear up on epo.
If the employee who leaked is disgruntled and bitter, we can be sure there was something damming in the jiffy bag.
Otherwise why leak it in the first place.
 
Re:

sniper said:
Indeed.

Wiggins went straight to Sestriere. Great place to gear up on epo.
If the employee who leaked is disgruntled and bitter, we can be sure there was something damming in the jiffy bag.
Otherwise why leak it in the first place.
There doesn't need to have been anything in the bag. There doesn't even need to have been a bag! Just the story is enough to cause massive trouble.

FWIW I can understand how cope might have got LBL and FW mixed up - they're in the same part of the world at the same time.

What is interesting here is the mess Sky are making over explaining what was going on rather than what was in the bag itself. It's perfectly plausible that nothing against the rules was done (e.g. the bag contained a drug that was legal out of comp) but the knots they're tied up in explaining themselves suggest something to hide (generally rather than specifically).
 
May 26, 2010
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I think there is a big difference between LBL and FW. I would expect someone not too familiar with cycling to mix them up, but not an ex pro still working in cycling.
 
Re: Sky

So Cope didn't know what was in the Jiffy bag; just that he was supposed to bring it Geneva, & hand it for Freeman ?

What exactly did he say to the nice person in the airport, at the boarding desk, when they asked him if he had packed his bags, & if anyone had given him anything to carry in his bags ??

What exactly was he going to say was in the bag if he was stopped in customs in Switzerland; in fact, was he just planning to breeze thru the Green channel, even though, as far as he knew there could have been 100k in pounds, or 500g of Coke in the bag ???

I wonder does he fancy taking some bandaids for me to Dubai for mate of mine, cough?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Re: Sky

keeponrollin said:
So Cope didn't know what was in the Jiffy bag; just that he was supposed to bring it Geneva, & hand it for Freeman ?

What exactly did he say to the nice person in the airport, at the boarding desk, when they asked him if he had packed his bags, & if anyone had given him anything to carry in his bags ??

What exactly was he going to say was in the bag if he was stopped in customs in Switzerland; in fact, was he just planning to breeze thru the Green channel, even though, as far as he knew there could have been 100k in pounds, or 500g of Coke in the bag ???

I wonder does he fancy taking some bandaids for me to Dubai for mate of mine, cough?
This is what is so laughable about the whole situation
You have grown adults with their careers and reputations on the line towing the party line for Sir Dave and Sky because the possibility of getting caught is slight but the possibility of never working again if you cross the establishment is guaranteed.

Fear and money make fools of people who would normally be rather sensible.

I would also add that if they needed something that quickly then flying from Manchester to Geneva takes around an hour driving it takes around 8 ( I know i used to do it every weekend for 8 weeks during the summer months when I trained there my wife would drive to chamonix and i would then fly in and out of Geneva and she would pick me up there.)
So why not fly to Geneva and hire a car to go the rest of the way - much much quicker
Unless of course you couldn't afford to have to put anything through an x ray machine or explain what you were carrying?

Pure supposition of course but an interesting question that I would love to hear sky answer
 
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