Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re: Re:

Dan2016 said:
bewildered said:
The fluimucil story is a complete fabrication to get Brailsford out of a sticky situation in front of MPs. Doesn't appear they thought it through though and are still writing it. The Doctor confirming he doesn't have prescription rights in France despite an EU Regulation that says he does is the latest unbelievable aspect of this story.

Normally Brailsford lies through his teeth (like in the Henao study and Froome VO2 max test promises) until the questions go away but now he' s dealing with MPs and journos who know a lot more than they have written, not fans with typewriters who are afraid of having their access removed. They are like a dog with a bone and this one will not blow over like the last few empty promises. With his normal tactic of lying through his teeth he is digging himself further into a hole and the journos are just waiting for him to snooker himself completely.
Nicely put.

I hope to god you're right.

I have a horrible feeling he is going to get away with it.

Thought this was a nice play on the PR strategy/crisis managment:

 
Jul 21, 2016
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Re: Re:

thehog said:
Dan2016 said:
bewildered said:
The fluimucil story is a complete fabrication to get Brailsford out of a sticky situation in front of MPs. Doesn't appear they thought it through though and are still writing it. The Doctor confirming he doesn't have prescription rights in France despite an EU Regulation that says he does is the latest unbelievable aspect of this story.

Normally Brailsford lies through his teeth (like in the Henao study and Froome VO2 max test promises) until the questions go away but now he' s dealing with MPs and journos who know a lot more than they have written, not fans with typewriters who are afraid of having their access removed. They are like a dog with a bone and this one will not blow over like the last few empty promises. With his normal tactic of lying through his teeth he is digging himself further into a hole and the journos are just waiting for him to snooker himself completely.
Nicely put.

I hope to god you're right.

I have a horrible feeling he is going to get away with it.

Thought this was a nice play on the PR strategy/crisis managment:

That's very funny, and a very good analysis.
Where is that from? I'd quite like to keep my eye out for more to come.
 
Aug 26, 2014
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Re: Re:

The Hegelian said:
bewildered said:
The fluimucil story is a complete fabrication to get Brailsford out of a sticky situation in front of MPs. Doesn't appear they thought it through though and are still writing it. The Doctor confirming he doesn't have prescription rights in France despite an EU Regulation that says he does is the latest unbelievable aspect of this story.

Normally Brailsford lies through his teeth (like in the Henao study and Froome VO2 max test promises) until the questions go away but now he' s dealing with MPs and journos who know a lot more than they have written, not fans with typewriters who are afraid of having their access removed. They are like a dog with a bone and this one will not blow over like the last few empty promises. With his normal tactic of lying through his teeth he is digging himself further into a hole and the journos are just waiting for him to snooker himself completely.
Yeah, that's what's interesting to see ~ the web of lies just pulls them deeper and deeper into the mire, rather than providing a convenient segue out of trouble.

And the more they lie, the more it looks like a neon sign which says "We are guilty!"

I think that with Alastair Campbell now at the helm, one is reminded of the Blair era ~ and how much Blair is reviled today for the WMD-Iraq deception. Sooner or later, the gates of truth burst open...
It's a funny thing, but for many years I've felt Sky were a lot like New Labour, with Brailsford and his hand-waving bullshittery resembling Blair et al. What Chris Mullins termed "New Labour's obsession with spin and control freakery', accurately diagnosing Sky.

How prescient that he also said : 'we've got our reviews, strategies, targets, action plans coming out of our ears....Yet, even at the hour of our greatest triumphs, New Labour has sown the seeds of its destruction'

Hubris, and Nemesis will always bite you in the ass.

Every now and then this debacle makes me recall In the Thick of It or In the Loop and I feel as weary as Peter Mannion with all the Knowledge Porridge BS.

FFS - How many months have they had to get a credible story straight, and yet for all the whatever they repeat ad nauseam was in the jiffy bag, there's still *** all evidence of anything important, a hell of a lot which smells fishier than Robson Green's tackle bag, and a shitload of contradictory crap.
 
Re: Re:

Electress said:
The Hegelian said:
bewildered said:
The fluimucil story is a complete fabrication to get Brailsford out of a sticky situation in front of MPs. Doesn't appear they thought it through though and are still writing it. The Doctor confirming he doesn't have prescription rights in France despite an EU Regulation that says he does is the latest unbelievable aspect of this story.

Normally Brailsford lies through his teeth (like in the Henao study and Froome VO2 max test promises) until the questions go away but now he' s dealing with MPs and journos who know a lot more than they have written, not fans with typewriters who are afraid of having their access removed. They are like a dog with a bone and this one will not blow over like the last few empty promises. With his normal tactic of lying through his teeth he is digging himself further into a hole and the journos are just waiting for him to snooker himself completely.
Yeah, that's what's interesting to see ~ the web of lies just pulls them deeper and deeper into the mire, rather than providing a convenient segue out of trouble.

And the more they lie, the more it looks like a neon sign which says "We are guilty!"

I think that with Alastair Campbell now at the helm, one is reminded of the Blair era ~ and how much Blair is reviled today for the WMD-Iraq deception. Sooner or later, the gates of truth burst open...
It's a funny thing, but for many years I've felt Sky were a lot like New Labour, with Brailsford and his hand-waving ****** resembling Blair et al. What Chris Mullins termed "New Labour's obsession with spin and control freakery', accurately diagnosing Sky.

How prescient that he also said : 'we've got our reviews, strategies, targets, action plans coming out of our ears....Yet, even at the hour of our greatest triumphs, New Labour has sown the seeds of its destruction'

Hubris, and Nemesis will always bite you in the ***.

Every now and then this debacle makes me recall In the Thick of It or In the Loop and I feel as weary as Peter Mannion with all the Knowledge Porridge BS.

FFS - How many months have they had to get a credible story straight, and yet for all the whatever they repeat ad nauseam was in the jiffy bag, there's still **** all evidence of anything important, a hell of a lot which smells fishier than Robson Green's tackle bag, and a shitload of contradictory crap.
The similarities are astounding, New Labour Tony Blair was hanging with Brit Pop Stars but 8 years later was surviving taking his country to war because he promised Bush over a light beer. Don't forget also Alistair Campbell was a massive Armstrong fan back in the day, even interviewed him in British TV event.

In February 1996, Tony Blair made one of the strangest speeches of his career. Those were the days when he had yet to take on the onerous responsibilities of government, so he found sufficient space in his diary for a visit to that year's Brit Awards. There, in addition to watching Jarvis Cocker's celebrated send-up of Michael Jackson, he was charged with the responsibility of presenting a Lifetime Achievement statuette to David Bowie. When he arrived at the podium, he dispensed sentences that were predictably light on verbs, and assumed a facial expression that suggested an amateur-dramatics enthusiast's attempt at statesmanlike destiny. The meat of his speech, however, was hardly the stuff of standard political oratory.

"It's been a great year for British music," said Blair. "A year of creativity, vitality, energy. British bands storming the charts. British music back once again in its right place, at the top of the world. And at least part of the reason for that has been the inspiration that today's bands can draw from those that have gone before. Bands in my generation like The Beatles and The Stones and The Kinks. Of a later generation: The Clash, The Smiths, The Stone Roses..."

We should pause there to consider, in retrospect, just how surreal that moment seems. Tony Blair – friend of Bush, chum of Rumsfeld, international agent of Christian neo-imperialism – was celebrating the influence of The Clash, authors of such songs as "Hate And War", "Clampdown" and "Rock The Casbah". His nod to The Smiths perhaps implied a recognition of the brilliance of their best album, The Queen Is Dead. If The Stone Roses seem a rather less incongruous choice, it should still be noted that the peak of their fame, five years beforehand, had been founded on the collision of rock music and the drug ecstasy. The church-going Blair would also surely have bristled at their most fondly loved anthem, a rather blasphemous tune entitled "I Am The Resurrection".

Twenty minutes prior to his Brits speech, Blair had been trailed by an unexpected warm-up act. Oasis, for whom the ceremony had been little short of a coronation, had received three awards. After being handed their gong for Best Group from The Who's Pete Townshend, Noel Gallagher stepped up to the microphone and paid tribute to himself, his group, Alan McGee – the boss of his record company, Creation – and the Leader of the Opposition. "There are seven people in this room who are giving a little bit of hope to young people in this country," he said, while visibly steadying himself on his feet. "That is [sic] me, our kid, Bonehead, Guigs, Alan White, Alan McGee and Tony Blair. And if you've all got anything about you, you'll go up there and you'll shake Tony Blair's hand, man. He's the man! Power to the people!"

Both Noel and Blair's words were emblematic of the Britpop era, the period that stretched from 1994 to 1998, and – as Blair noted – saw the UK's rock music achieving sky-scraping commercial success while proudly drawing on the influence of the past, and the Sixties in particular. There were times when, scanning the acres of newsprint devoted to Britpop, one rather got the impression that London had mutated into some Austin Powers-esque film set, crowded with bright young things, and soundtracked by successors to The Beatles and The Stones. It is testament to the Blairites' canniness that the Leader of the Opposition was included in this fantasia: compared to JFK, applauded for his wish that Britain should reinvent itself as a "young country" (whatever that meant), and sent invitations to all the right soirées.

Of course, his glad-handing of Britain's newest musical celebrities came with the odd risk. Regular and pretty extreme intoxication was de rigueur for the Britpoppers – and, as was well known, the Gallagher brothers were particularly fond of chemical refreshment. When the Blairs approached Oasis's table, their demeanour suggested they had been warned. "They were very sheepish," says Paul "Bonehead" Arthurs, then the band's rhythm guitarist. "Cherie Blair was like, 'Would you mind awfully signing something for my kids? They're very big fans." We just went, 'Waaaargh'. We were ***." In the recollection of Tim Abbot, who was one of Oasis's closest associates, "There were literally ounces of cocaine, just a couple of feet away from them."
 
Well remember that they - Oasis, Blur....anyone else? - were at no. 10 for some kind of official something when Blair got in. Radiohead stands out for refusing, and going on to become very political in their rejection of Blairite newlabour/neo-liberalism.

Despite the Campbell link, Brailsford stands tall as a kind of moral saint next to Blair - turning trackies and nobodies into GC greats via whatever means necessary doesn't quite match toppling a regime illegally, thus causing 1million+ deaths.
 
Well, many "lefty" intellectuals swallowed and continue to swallow the mantra of balanced budgets as virtues and excessive real wages and benefits being the cause of unemployment as well. Mcdonnell for one. Cringeworthy stuff.

As for musicians other than radiohead, Asian dub foundation was not in the same league of popularity with the britpoppers, but "real great britain" nailed it in 2000. Shoegazer nation forever looking backwards, murdoch selling the flag to the youth, and a blairful of thatcher becoming stuck on to 45 etc.

Hiring campbell really is the icing on the sky cake, too fitting :D
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

The Hegelian said:
Well remember that they - Oasis, Blur....anyone else? - were at no. 10 for some kind of official something when Blair got in. Radiohead stands out for refusing, and going on to become very political in their rejection of Blairite newlabour/neo-liberalism.

Despite the Campbell link, Brailsford stands tall as a kind of moral saint next to Blair - turning trackies and nobodies into GC greats via whatever means necessary doesn't quite match toppling a regime illegally, thus causing 1million+ deaths.
actors fashion designers... (Hugh Grant, Stella McCartney), lots of others...

we had the same thing in Australia with Kevin Rudd. We had a symposium. Rudd visited Kate Blanchett in hospital when she had given birth to her youngest child, he brought them a personal(not on behalf of state) birth gift, for wont of the word.

That is an intersection of official State role, because it certainly was not that, and visiting a close personal friend on having a baby. because there is no definition as Blanchett could be a close personal friend.

IMO, this was an indictment on both of them. freekin aspberger'ish. atleast from the giver.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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meat puppet said:
Well, many "lefty" intellectuals swallowed and continue to swallow the mantra of balanced budgets as virtues and excessive real wages and benefits being the cause of unemployment as well. Mcdonnell for one. Cringeworthy stuff.

As for musicians other than radiohead, Asian dub foundation was not in the same league of popularity with the britpoppers, but "real great britain" nailed it in 2000. Shoegazer nation forever looking backwards, murdoch selling the flag to the youth, and a blairful of thatcher becoming stuck on to 45 etc.

Hiring campbell really is the icing on the sky cake, too fitting :D
It is Chomsky's position, the intellectual class are just another strata of 5th estate and gatekeepers and will endorse state business through their official lens. they are gutless.

Was not one of his first essays, 60s or 70s, an essay/pamphlet on "responsibilities of intellectuals"
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

meat puppet said:
Well, many "lefty" intellectuals swallowed and continue to swallow the mantra of balanced budgets as virtues and excessive real wages and benefits being the cause of unemployment as well. Mcdonnell for one. Cringeworthy stuff.

As for musicians other than radiohead, Asian dub foundation was not in the same league of popularity with the britpoppers, but "real great britain" nailed it in 2000. Shoegazer nation forever looking backwards, murdoch selling the flag to the youth, and a blairful of thatcher becoming stuck on to 45 etc.

Hiring campbell really is the icing on the sky cake, too fitting :D
brimful of asher

yeah, its a freekin cornershop enterprise innit
 
Mar 7, 2017
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Benotti69 said:
Pity no one is mentioning Doctor Geert Leinders in all this, apart from Kimmage to Stokes in cyclingtips.

He seems to have been the guy who kickstarted Sky's success in 2011, where's his laptop with his medical files of Wiggins and others?????
Geert Leinders was Rod Hull to Richard Freeman's Emu - seriously :D

Leinders the guiding mind teaching dumbass footy doctor Freeman everything he knew through 2011

That's a whole lot of doping and grey area expertise that Freeman needed to learn Rabobank stylee

And Leinders' Rule No 1 was that Freeman goes off grid. Rogue doctors leave no paper trail

Gotta give the boss man plausible deniability down the line. Although the "plausible" bit is now dust
 
Jul 21, 2016
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sniper said:
I assume the "leave no papertrail" rule was already deeply rooted in BC prior to the arrival of Leinders.
Keen, Brailsford, real masterminds in that respect.
Do you think this goes all the way back to Keen?
Do you have anything to base that on or is it speculation? (genuine questions, not trying to make a point)
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

Dan2016 said:
sniper said:
I assume the "leave no papertrail" rule was already deeply rooted in BC prior to the arrival of Leinders.
Keen, Brailsford, real masterminds in that respect.
Do you think this goes all the way back to Keen?
Do you have anything to base that on or is it speculation? (genuine questions, not trying to make a point)
For a variety of reasons I'm convinced it goes back to Keen.
But yes, it's (informed) speculation.

Keep in mind that Chris Boardman wasn't on the list of positives from the French Senate's retested 1998 TdF samples. By all means, he should have been on that list, but something or someone saw to it that he wasn't on that list. Divine intervention, or did Keen take care of things?
 
Jul 21, 2016
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Re: Re:

sniper said:
Dan2016 said:
sniper said:
I assume the "leave no papertrail" rule was already deeply rooted in BC prior to the arrival of Leinders.
Keen, Brailsford, real masterminds in that respect.
Do you think this goes all the way back to Keen?
Do you have anything to base that on or is it speculation? (genuine questions, not trying to make a point)
For a variety of reasons I'm convinced it goes back to Keen.
But yes, it's (informed) speculation.

Keep in mind that Chris Boardman wasn't on the list of positives from the French Senate's retested 1998 TdF samples. By all means, he should have been on that list, but something or someone saw to it that he wasn't on that list. Divine intervention, or did Keen take care of things?
Interesting. Personally I've always suspected Boardman was genuinely cleans. And with him and Keen being like batman and robbin I suspected Keen was clean too. Nothing would surprise me though. I didn't know anything about the French Senate retesting and Boardman not being on the list. I'm intrigued. Will have a look into that. If you have any sources handy I'd appreciate it.

Back to Sky, another scathing article in the Guardian. Hilarious just how much gobshite Brailsford was peddling. And the good journalist has given us Froome's real weight. 49kg apparently. :confused: :lol:

'In some respects, Froome has long symbolised the weird mix of micromanagement and glaring lacunae that are coming to characterise Team Sky. Take his weight. Despite all the state-of-the-art technologies and measurements applied to him, Froome’s weight remained hamperingly high for some years. He himself says he was “aware of the weight issue”, but just didn’t think he could go any lower than 69 kilos. It was his fiancee (now wife) Michelle – a lay person with a what she described as “a bit of an interest in sports nutrition” – who masterminded the 20kg weight loss that was so significant in transforming him into a three-time Tour winner.'

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/mar/08/team-sky-are-hoist-on-their-own-petard-by-admissions-of-amateurism
 
Aug 26, 2014
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Re: Re:

Dan2016 said:
sniper said:
Dan2016 said:
sniper said:
I assume the "leave no papertrail" rule was already deeply rooted in BC prior to the arrival of Leinders.
Keen, Brailsford, real masterminds in that respect.
Do you think this goes all the way back to Keen?
Do you have anything to base that on or is it speculation? (genuine questions, not trying to make a point)
For a variety of reasons I'm convinced it goes back to Keen.
But yes, it's (informed) speculation.

Keep in mind that Chris Boardman wasn't on the list of positives from the French Senate's retested 1998 TdF samples. By all means, he should have been on that list, but something or someone saw to it that he wasn't on that list. Divine intervention, or did Keen take care of things?
Interesting. Personally I've always suspected Boardman was genuinely cleans. And with him and Keen being like batman and robbin I suspected Keen was clean too. Nothing would surprise me though. I didn't know anything about the French Senate retesting and Boardman not being on the list. I'm intrigued. Will have a look into that. If you have any sources handy I'd appreciate it.

Back to Sky, another scathing article in the Guardian. Hilarious just how much gobshite Brailsford was peddling. And the good journalist has given us Froome's real weight. 49kg apparently. :confused: :lol:

'In some respects, Froome has long symbolised the weird mix of micromanagement and glaring lacunae that are coming to characterise Team Sky. Take his weight. Despite all the state-of-the-art technologies and measurements applied to him, Froome’s weight remained hamperingly high for some years. He himself says he was “aware of the weight issue”, but just didn’t think he could go any lower than 69 kilos. It was his fiancee (now wife) Michelle – a lay person with a what she described as “a bit of an interest in sports nutrition” – who masterminded the 20kg weight loss that was so significant in transforming him into a three-time Tour winner.'

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/mar/08/team-sky-are-hoist-on-their-own-petard-by-admissions-of-amateurism
This has to be deliberately chipping into the Froome's credibility. Who could possibly believe that mind-bendingly asinine utter crapola about Cound? Lest not forget she's also a crack detective, digging out lost faxes from UCI files that others have hunted for in vain.

49 kg coz the wife had a 'bit of interest in sport nutrition'. FFS. There are no words.
 
Aug 26, 2014
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I've found some words.

We learned there was something literally called the “Secret Squirrel Club”, and a “Room X” where various hi-tech whatnots are developed and then given to riders just before they depart for a mission. I pictured Q snapping “pay attention, Double O Froome!” There was the unveiling of the latest wizardry – a “Readiness Index”. “This is not marginal gains. This is new. This is how we build a dynasty.”
As the days wear on, I imagine we might have reached 'Peak Bollox'. But this has reached new heights. How can they say this stuff with a straight face? is there some weird brain-washing going on?

"This is how we build a dynasty." F..k me.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Re: Re:

blackcat said:
meat puppet said:
Well, many "lefty" intellectuals swallowed and continue to swallow the mantra of balanced budgets as virtues and excessive real wages and benefits being the cause of unemployment as well. Mcdonnell for one. Cringeworthy stuff.

As for musicians other than radiohead, Asian dub foundation was not in the same league of popularity with the britpoppers, but "real great britain" nailed it in 2000. Shoegazer nation forever looking backwards, murdoch selling the flag to the youth, and a blairful of thatcher becoming stuck on to 45 etc.

Hiring campbell really is the icing on the sky cake, too fitting :D
It is Chomsky's position, the intellectual class are just another strata of 5th estate and gatekeepers and will endorse state business through their official lens. they are gutless.

Was not one of his first essays, 60s or 70s, an essay/pamphlet on "responsibilities of intellectuals"
....absolutely yeah, just check the output of any economic department since the introduction of the Laugher , eeerr, Laffer Curve....marching in lock step to the bank to cash their checks....

Cheers
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:

The Hegelian said:
And that LA is maybe the most transparent mirror we've had for the sport.
a mirror we are utternly incapable of recognising. even Betsy. especially Betsy.

I think it is, we have transferred upon Armstrong, some primal wish, to enforce dominion unto others. patron qua patron.

The Americans were content to echo the talking points coming from Stapleton and Public Strategies, French, jealousy, yankee work ethic, science... all lies. demonstrates gullibility better than Milgram.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:

blutto said:
blackcat said:
meat puppet said:
Well, many "lefty" intellectuals swallowed and continue to swallow the mantra of balanced budgets as virtues and excessive real wages and benefits being the cause of unemployment as well. Mcdonnell for one. Cringeworthy stuff.

As for musicians other than radiohead, Asian dub foundation was not in the same league of popularity with the britpoppers, but "real great britain" nailed it in 2000. Shoegazer nation forever looking backwards, murdoch selling the flag to the youth, and a blairful of thatcher becoming stuck on to 45 etc.

Hiring campbell really is the icing on the sky cake, too fitting :D
It is Chomsky's position, the intellectual class are just another strata of 5th estate and gatekeepers and will endorse state business through their official lens. they are gutless.

Was not one of his first essays, 60s or 70s, an essay/pamphlet on "responsibilities of intellectuals"
....absolutely yeah, just check the output of any economic department since the introduction of the Laugher , eeerr, Laffer Curve....marching in lock step to the bank to cash their checks....

Cheers
it is the revolving door at SEC, off to the hedgies or bulge bracket banks, and Goldmans having a lock on the Treasury every new administration. Well, this is all Chicago Chile Boys with Milton at UofChicago acourse...
 
Jul 21, 2016
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Catwhoorg said:
That article has the units wrong.

It was supposed to be 20 lbs, which is still a significant amount.

It had been corrected when i checked just now.
Interesting. So the journalist is sticking to the dramatic weight loss from a fatty 69kg?
20lbs is about 9kg. So Froome's TDF weight is 60kg?

That actually seems the most realistic figure I've seen for his Tour weight seeing how alien skeletal he is.

As far as I know he and Sky have been a bit evasive about his real weight. Is that correct?

So what would 60kg do to his power data calculations? Has something significant been revealed in this article or is that clutching at straws?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

Electress said:
I've found some words.

We learned there was something literally called the “Secret Squirrel Club”, and a “Room X” where various hi-tech whatnots are developed and then given to riders just before they depart for a mission. I pictured Q snapping “pay attention, Double O Froome!” There was the unveiling of the latest wizardry – a “Readiness Index”. “This is not marginal gains. This is new. This is how we build a dynasty.”
As the days wear on, I imagine we might have reached 'Peak Bollox'. But this has reached new heights. How can they say this stuff with a straight face? is there some weird brain-washing going on?

"This is how we build a dynasty." F..k me.
SDB ftw.
 
Jul 21, 2016
913
0
0
Re:

Electress said:
I've found some words.

We learned there was something literally called the “Secret Squirrel Club”, and a “Room X” where various hi-tech whatnots are developed and then given to riders just before they depart for a mission. I pictured Q snapping “pay attention, Double O Froome!” There was the unveiling of the latest wizardry – a “Readiness Index”. “This is not marginal gains. This is new. This is how we build a dynasty.”
As the days wear on, I imagine we might have reached 'Peak Bollox'. But this has reached new heights. How can they say this stuff with a straight face? is there some weird brain-washing going on?

"This is how we build a dynasty." F..k me.
'Peak Bollox'! :D
This whole thing is comedy gold.
Somebody mentioned 'The Thick of It' in one of these threads (it's getting hard to follow them all). I've been thinking exactly the same throughout.
 
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