Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

That article has the units wrong.

It was supposed to be 20 lbs, which is still a significant amount.

It had been corrected when i checked just now.

Interesting. So the journalist is sticking to the dramatic weight loss from a fatty 69kg?
20lbs is about 9kg. So Froome's TDF weight is 60kg?

That actually seems the most realistic figure I've seen for his Tour weight seeing how alien skeletal he is.

As far as I know he and Sky have been a bit evasive about his real weight. Is that correct?

So what would 60kg do to his power data calculations? Has something significant been revealed in this article or is that clutching at straws?

at Barlo, he weight would have been around 73 in season, at 6'3". 74 max.

He may have got down to 72 at the end of a TdF. And out of season, he may have pipped 75.

he was never fat.

the 6 kgs loss, is off a base of 73kg and 190cm. Give or take an inch and kg here and there.

He was never fat. He was a healthy lean cyclist.

He was not Daio Pieri or Jan Ullrich.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Outside of dragging a scale and sticking him on it, I have no idea what sort of weight CF has at a race. He does lean up nicely /go full skeletal in time for the tour every year now.

I know that there is a lot of deceit about self (and team) reported power numbers, weight and hence the ratios, both up and down for a variety of reasons, that is not just a Sky issue.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Interesting. So the journalist is sticking to the dramatic weight loss from a fatty 69kg?
20lbs is about 9kg. So Froome's TDF weight is 60kg?

That actually seems the most realistic figure I've seen for his Tour weight seeing how alien skeletal he is.

As far as I know he and Sky have been a bit evasive about his real weight. Is that correct?

So what would 60kg do to his power data calculations? Has something significant been revealed in this article or is that clutching at straws?

at Barlo, he weight would have been around 73 in season, at 6'3". 74 max.

He may have got down to 72 at the end of a TdF. And out of season, he may have pipped 75.

he was never fat.

the 6 kgs loss, is off a base of 73kg and 190cm. Give or take an inch and kg here and there.

He was never fat. He was a healthy lean cyclist.

He was not Daio Pieri or Jan Ullrich.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Although in some end-of-season pics from way back when that made the rounds about a a year ago he was a little chubby, but that seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. (20lbs) 9kg is likely the whole enchilada, taking him down from his Barloword winter weight to his final week Sky Tour weight, which is likely around 67kg.

Although he does seem pretty close to his listed 6'1" to me. He seems to give away an centimeter or two to Fabian and Tommy D.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I assume the "leave no papertrail" rule was already deeply rooted in BC prior to the arrival of Leinders.
Keen, Brailsford, real masterminds in that respect.

Do you think this goes all the way back to Keen?
Do you have anything to base that on or is it speculation? (genuine questions, not trying to make a point)

For a variety of reasons I'm convinced it goes back to Keen.
But yes, it's (informed) speculation.

Keep in mind that Chris Boardman wasn't on the list of positives from the French Senate's retested 1998 TdF samples. By all means, he should have been on that list, but something or someone saw to it that he wasn't on that list. Divine intervention, or did Keen take care of things?

Interesting. Personally I've always suspected Boardman was genuinely cleans. And with him and Keen being like batman and robbin I suspected Keen was clean too. Nothing would surprise me though. I didn't know anything about the French Senate retesting and Boardman not being on the list. I'm intrigued. Will have a look into that. If you have any sources handy I'd appreciate it.

Back to Sky, another scathing article in the Guardian. Hilarious just how much gobshite Brailsford was peddling. And the good journalist has given us Froome's real weight. 49kg apparently. :lol:

'In some respects, Froome has long symbolised the weird mix of micromanagement and glaring lacunae that are coming to characterise Team Sky. Take his weight. Despite all the state-of-the-art technologies and measurements applied to him, Froome’s weight remained hamperingly high for some years. He himself says he was “aware of the weight issue”, but just didn’t think he could go any lower than 69 kilos. It was his fiancee (now wife) Michelle – a lay person with a what she described as “a bit of an interest in sports nutrition” – who masterminded the 20kg weight loss that was so significant in transforming him into a three-time Tour winner.'

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/mar/08/team-sky-are-hoist-on-their-own-petard-by-admissions-of-amateurism

This has to be deliberately chipping into the Froome's credibility. Who could possibly believe that mind-bendingly asinine utter crapola about Cound? Lest not forget she's also a crack detective, digging out lost faxes from UCI files that others have hunted for in vain.

49 kg coz the wife had a 'bit of interest in sport nutrition'. FFS. There are no words.

She made that comment 3 or 4 years ago.

All the sky fans and their journos believed it and followed it.

Any criticism for all these years after she made the comment has been met by the likes of walsh and more with "haters who just can't accept sky are clean".

We in the clinic were actually the first and for years the only ones, to point out that cound masterminding a weightloss while "no other team does weightloss" was obvious lying from obvious dopers

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

.. cound masterminding a weightloss while "no other team does weightloss" was obvious lying from obvious dopers

Jeroen Swart:
As to why nobody got on top of the weight? I don't have any details as to what transpired. Surely the same could have been said for UIrich and many others. In my experience, many of the top teams were not at all invested in science. They would pay the riders lots of money and tell them to make sure they were in shape. Telekom being a prime example. Some still do these days but most of the teams have become much more invested in the science.
viewtopic.php?p=1951074#p1951074

 

[sniper]

Johnny Lee Augustyn - Swart's protegee from 2010(11?) to 2014, and Froome's principal training buddy from 2006-2008, quoted in Vavafroome (2013) in reference to the 2006-2008 period:

"Chris has always been very into nutrition", says Johnny Lee Augustyn. "He showed me a lot of new things, all the natural products, organic food".

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

.. cound masterminding a weightloss while "no other team does weightloss" was obvious lying from obvious dopers

Jeroen Swart:
As to why nobody got on top of the weight? I don't have any details as to what transpired. Surely the same could have been said for UIrich and many others. In my experience, many of the top teams were not at all invested in science. They would pay the riders lots of money and tell them to make sure they were in shape. Telekom being a prime example. Some still do these days but most of the teams have become much more invested in the science.
viewtopic.php?p=1951074#p1951074

Swart drank too much kool-aid!!!!

Sport science in cycling goes way back. Jeroen needs to stop trying to sell snakeoil.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

.. cound masterminding a weightloss while "no other team does weightloss" was obvious lying from obvious dopers

Jeroen Swart:
As to why nobody got on top of the weight? I don't have any details as to what transpired. Surely the same could have been said for UIrich and many others. In my experience, many of the top teams were not at all invested in science. They would pay the riders lots of money and tell them to make sure they were in shape. Telekom being a prime example. Some still do these days but most of the teams have become much more invested in the science.
viewtopic.php?p=1951074#p1951074

Swart drank too much kool-aid!!!!

Sport science in cycling goes way back. Jeroen needs to stop trying to sell snakeoil.

Jereon hasn't posted in the forum in quite some time now, did he finally get tired of getting questioned/lambasted or does he finally realize that the kool-aid that he drank was laced with kenacort?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

.. cound masterminding a weightloss while "no other team does weightloss" was obvious lying from obvious dopers

Jeroen Swart:
As to why nobody got on top of the weight? I don't have any details as to what transpired. Surely the same could have been said for UIrich and many others. In my experience, many of the top teams were not at all invested in science. They would pay the riders lots of money and tell them to make sure they were in shape. Telekom being a prime example. Some still do these days but most of the teams have become much more invested in the science.
viewtopic.php?p=1951074#p1951074

Swart drank too much kool-aid!!!!

Sport science in cycling goes way back. Jeroen needs to stop trying to sell snakeoil.

Jereon hasn't posted in the forum in quite some time now, did he finally get tired of getting questioned/lambasted or does he finally realize that the kool-aid that he drank was laced with kenacort?

I think he is quite active on twitter, but yeah the clinic is not for those trying to defend the indefensible.

Clinicians have elephant like memories about the sport of cycling.

 

[sniper]

Swart didnt make a secret out of the fact that he was/is good friends with Michelle Cound I think from 2011 onwards and that it was Cound who knocked on his door to do the 2015 testing.
Swart apparently never had a problem with Cound's love for epic dopers like Armstrong and Vino (not to mention her mother in law). Otherwise I assume he'd have been more cautious when asked by Richard Moore what he thinks caused Froome's transformation.

Not that that should surprise anybody, seeing how warmly Swart welcomed Bobby Julich back into the peloton after his non-confession confession.

Jeroen Swart @JeroenSwart

Fantastic! RT @Pro_Cycling: BMC Racing Team hires Bobby Julich as training, equipment and performance consultant

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

.. cound masterminding a weightloss while "no other team does weightloss" was obvious lying from obvious dopers

Jeroen Swart:
As to why nobody got on top of the weight? I don't have any details as to what transpired. Surely the same could have been said for UIrich and many others. In my experience, many of the top teams were not at all invested in science. They would pay the riders lots of money and tell them to make sure they were in shape. Telekom being a prime example. Some still do these days but most of the teams have become much more invested in the science.
viewtopic.php?p=1951074#p1951074

Swart drank too much kool-aid!!!!

Sport science in cycling goes way back. Jeroen needs to stop trying to sell snakeoil.

Jereon hasn't posted in the forum in quite some time now, did he finally get tired of getting questioned/lambasted or does he finally realize that the kool-aid that he drank was laced with kenacort?

I think he is quite active on twitter, but yeah the clinic is not for those trying to defend the indefensible.

Clinicians have elephant like memories about the sport of cycling.

This is an amazing quality that clinic members have which some people seem to forget from time to time to their own detriment.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

This is an amazing quality that clinic members have which some people seem to forget from time to time to their own detriment.

:lol:

I cant recall

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

This is an amazing quality that clinic members have which some people seem to forget from time to time to their own detriment.

:lol:

I cant recall

 

[TourOfSardinia]

BBC
spins
G
against
BW
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39204990
citing
CN!

 

[Ricksterh1]

Seems like top athletes in cycling has to have asthma to be the best. Does it not seem wierd that so with asthma are able to compete at the top levels of this sport but need to take "medication" to do so? It boggles my mind that this is so. Froome and Wiggins, among many others seem to have asthma or asthmatic conditions that required medications to compete.

 

[yaco]

Re: Sky

Also re laptop. If they could delete it remotely they could also have saved the files remotely, no?

Sky still playing the wrong game with fans and media. More than one hole in the a lovely person.

Still the main protagonists, Freeman and Wiggins not answering the simple question of what was in the Jiffy Bag and their reluctance to tell us with proof is just a disaster for a team that promised to be clean and transparent.

It's not our business what is in the jiffy Bag - It's the business of UKAD if they can uncover evidence.

 

[yaco]

I have to laugh at people in this forum's patting MP's on the back - The same MP's who patted themselves on the back when Britain dominated track cycling events at the Olympics, and then who piggybacked on the success of Sky - The Mp's are part of 'the system' and its a pity so few can see this situation - Blackcat was right.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I have to laugh at people in this forum's patting MP's on the back - The same MP's who patted themselves on the back when Britain dominated track cycling events at the Olympics, and then who piggybacked on the success of Sky - The Mp's are part of 'the system' and its a pity so few can see this situation - Blackcat was right.

tautological[sic] pleonasm[sic]. ofcourse he or she was right. when was he or she not right.

la pussie noir #ftw.

#Trumpwasright

 

[yaco]

Re:

Seems like top athletes in cycling has to have asthma to be the best. Does it not seem wierd that so with asthma are able to compete at the top levels of this sport but need to take "medication" to do so? It boggles my mind that this is so. Froome and Wiggins, among many others seem to have asthma or asthmatic conditions that required medications to compete.

It's actually athletes in all disciplines - It's not an issue solely pertaining to cycling.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Seems like top athletes in cycling has to have asthma to be the best. Does it not seem wierd that so with asthma are able to compete at the top levels of this sport but need to take "medication" to do so? It boggles my mind that this is so. Froome and Wiggins, among many others seem to have asthma or asthmatic conditions that required medications to compete.

or they are Australian. All the athletes at the AIS have salbutamol or salbutemol.

Australian
Institute
ofSport


*was rhetoric, or hyperbole, a shedload of the athletes at the AIS also have asthma <eyesroll>

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

.. cound masterminding a weightloss while "no other team does weightloss" was obvious lying from obvious dopers

Jeroen Swart:
As to why nobody got on top of the weight? I don't have any details as to what transpired. Surely the same could have been said for UIrich and many others. In my experience, many of the top teams were not at all invested in science. They would pay the riders lots of money and tell them to make sure they were in shape. Telekom being a prime example. Some still do these days but most of the teams have become much more invested in the science.
viewtopic.php?p=1951074#p1951074

Swart drank too much kool-aid!!!!

Sport science in cycling goes way back. Jeroen needs to stop trying to sell snakeoil.

Jereon hasn't posted in the forum in quite some time now, did he finally get tired of getting questioned/lambasted or does he finally realize that the kool-aid that he drank was laced with kenacort?

I think he is quite active on twitter, but yeah the clinic is not for those trying to defend the indefensible.

Clinicians have elephant like memories about the sport of cycling.

we don't like being BS'ed to.

The thing is, we can often, and do, we find the quotes and on-the-record statements, from the same mouth, the words-from-same-mouth, that contradict the person now trying to BS us. Contradict yourself with the PR spin you told Roger Legeay JV, we can dig up the quotes that are still online, from 15 years ago, where you told us about the cortisone and the wasp, you spun us the tale about "ringing Roger on the eve of the TdF and telling RL you had had enough and you would dope for him(RL) to get results(in the tdF) and RL insisting that he was not to dope, and do not dope for CreditAgricole."

So yeah, we remember where you have contraverted evidence you have already told us, and we dig it out, and show you your own words.

The thing about lying and liars, they have no achor to tell the same thing, where the same thing is the truth. They would have to remember all the lies and PR and spin and BS they have said, and now re-utter the same 'version'. They have to remember a version. not the truth.

This anchor, is far less piquant, less vivid, for one's memory. But when you aggregate the memory of the Clinic, we can bite you on the bum.

#theClinic12 ftw
#disciples
#apostles
#cancerJesus

 

[blackcat]

Re: Sky

Also re laptop. If they could delete it remotely they could also have saved the files remotely, no?

Sky still playing the wrong game with fans and media. More than one hole in the a lovely person.

Still the main protagonists, Freeman and Wiggins not answering the simple question of what was in the Jiffy Bag and their reluctance to tell us with proof is just a disaster for a team that promised to be clean and transparent.

It's not our business what is in the jiffy Bag - It's the business of UKAD if they can uncover evidence.

these are not the droids u r looking 4 #ObiWanKenobi

 

[SHarris]

Should be an overview of whenever something crazy clinic related happens with sky. It's hard to go look at all the posts everyone's opinion on it.
Every time a new thread on the crazy news that we get would be nice

 

[blackcat]

well, we have the official denial that Sky Broadcasting does not offer full support of #TeamSKY


never believe something until it is officially denied

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Now the wheels are *literally* coming off. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wheel-failures-decimate-team-skys-tirreno-adriatico-ambitions/

This kind of reminds me how after a decade of avoiding any mishaps, Armstrong couldn't keep his bike upright during the "comeback".

John Swanson